(01-12-2016, 05:12 PM)McC Wrote: I think you have to take the nature of that game into account too, though, when judging his performance, just like I would with any QB.

He didn't make a lot of good plays.  No one is denying that.  He's five games in a thrown into an absolute shit storm, with the weather, the madness the Steelers were bringing, the fact that his line had a lot of trouble controlling the LOS, the Steelers throwing the kitchen sink at him, the insanity that was going on around him.

But I can't give a guy a d who never crumbled in the face if all that.

Fourth quarter, you're down 15 in the Here We Go Again Bowl.  The Steelers want to end you.  That would shrivel the nuts of a lot of 6th round QB's.  But he played with big balls.

The PI call that everyone brings up?  Yes, it should have been thrown farther.  But AJ was catching that if he wasn't hit.  That was not a lame duck.

He walked off the field with the lead and two minutes to play.  Of course the defense kept the score low.  I believe that's their job. 

If a QB does that for me, no matter what the numbers say, that deserves more than a D.  Courage alone gets him to a C.

His guts are why I gave him a D+. I can't give a C to a QB that led the offense we saw saturday. I just can't. He was very inaccurate on numerous easy throws that could've kept drives going. 3 fumbles and a pick? He has to handle the weather better than that. 

You say that it's the D's job to keep the points low? I get that, but the defense we saw on Saturday wasn't there in any of the previous 4 playoff games. They actually showed up this time. That allowed Mac to stay in the game and make it close even though the offense was AWOL for 3 quarters. Normally 16 points ain't going to get it, sorry.

I'm trying to be as fair about this as possible, but it seems that any critical post about his performance is going to be deemed "hate". For pete's sake he had 3 fumbles, a pick, and put up 16 points against a crap defense. Is it really a stretch for some to not be impressed?

(01-12-2016, 04:46 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: The funny thing is, I have nothing against Dalton at all. When he is our starter I fully support him and want and expect him to play at a high level. I guess my problem is, I want us to win a super bowl. Some of you guys have defended Dalton so much that if he fails you take it as a personal loss and that you are wrong. I dont have that issue. I actually wish Dalton would have played just to see if this year was finally the year he didnt absolutely choke in the playoffs. Im a realist. When the Bengals have an off game, I dont jump off a cliff and scream we suck and Daltons terrible. I do have 5 years of evidence of Andy playing down 95% of the time during big games. I have 4 playoff games to go off of where he absolutely played terrible and didnt ever mount any late game drives to put us up. Thats the whole thing with a qb, stats dont matter. Tom Brady, Manning, Drew Brees etc etc can have terrible games but when it's crunch time, more so than not, they take their team down the field and score the go ahead points. Sure Dalton has done it in 1 pm Sunday games, but when has he done it under the lights? Of course Dalton is gonna be a more polished product, he has years more of experience. I think some of you forget how bad andy looked at some points during his first 4 seasons. AJ McCarron was essentially a rookie this year, missing most of his rookie season to injury. This was his 4th game starting. Some qbs just have it, the ability to step up in big moments and deliver. Some dont. Dalton imo is the latter. I could never envision Dalton leading us on the drive McCarron did Saturday, because he never has in 5 years in primetime. All Im saying is there are facts and then there is hope. The fact is that AJ McCarron had us in a position to win the game....the hope is Dalton will do that some day. Difference is, Dalton will be in his 6th year, McCarron in his 3rd. I care about team...and I do know this, you trade Dalton you at least get a first round pick and you clear about 20 mil of cap space to resign our own and get more pieces. Does that or does that not improve the overall quality of this team? Take the rose colored glasses off before you answer.

Rep points

(01-12-2016, 05:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: His guts are why I gave him a D+. I can't give a C to a QB that led the offense we saw saturday. I just can't. He was very inaccurate on numerous easy throws that could've kept drives going. 3 fumbles and a pick? He has to handle the weather better than that. 

You say that it's the D's job to keep the points low? I get that, but the defense we saw on Saturday wasn't there in any of the previous 4 playoff games. They actually showed up this time. That allowed Mac to stay in the game and make it close even though the offense was AWOL for 3 quarters. Normally 16 points ain't going to get it, sorry.

I'm trying to be as fair about this as possible, but it seems that any critical post about his performance is going to be deemed "hate". For pete's sake he had 3 fumbles, a pick, and put up 16 points against a crap defense. Is it really a stretch for some to not be impressed?

Doesn't the way he played the first three quarters make what he did in the 4th all that much more impressive?

Did you really expect him to put up 30 or have a 90 plus rating?

I'm saying if the Bengals could have finished that game, the guy's a hero and that comeback goes down in Bengals history.  He delivered what should have been the first playoff win in 25 ***** years.  Personally, I'll never forgive Hue or Marvin for giving the Fumbler the ball at the end of that game.

(01-12-2016, 05:39 PM)McC Wrote: Doesn't the way he played the first three quarters make what he did in the 4th all that much more impressive?

Did you really expect him to put up 30 or have a 90 plus rating?

I'm saying if the Bengals could have finished that game, the guy's a hero and that comeback goes down in Bengals history.  He delivered what should have been the first playoff win in 25 ***** years.  Personally, I'll never forgive Hue or Marvin for giving the Fumbler the ball at the end of that game.

I think people get too defensive because he almost did something Andy hasn't. Some really want to ignore the fact that AJM should have been the hero. The guy's a fast learner and he figured out how to move the offense despite the rain towards the end. 

He gave me 5ish minutes of true happiness when it looked certain that we would win an amazing playoff comeback. We all know what happened next but for those few fleeting moments I tasted what a sweet playoff victory is like. He gets high marks for that in my book. 

(01-12-2016, 01:38 PM)WhoDeySince81 Wrote: You seem to be a fairly level headed individual and I respect you for asking the question simply. 

If you want solid-to-very good regular season offenses that look great early on and against lesser teams, but sputter in prime time and playoff games, stay with Dalton. ( I think he's dependable, a good teammate and seems like a really good person, this is not personal)

If you want to take a shot at holding trophies and go all the way, you take your lumps through the learning curve and go with McCarron. The kid plays with a natural confidence and leadership that isn't taught or coached at the NFL level, it's either there by now or it isn't. And this kid has it.

Sorry just don't buy it Daltons gotnfidence and leadership or we would not be where we are now ajm has done nothing  for me to even compare the two. Dalton is our qb to ride this wave of winning .

This is the "How about AJ" thread isn't it?
I could have sworn I was in a pre-season who should be the QB thread for a minute...

This was supposed to be a thread about the backup. A few people came in here ready to throw him under the bus giving him horrible grades for the first 3 quarters and finding ways to blame the loss on him, trust me people see right through your agenda. 

I've just read through pretty much every post in this thread and no where does anyone say AJ is better than Dalton. A few make an argument that he may have progressed faster and one guy thinks we should trade Dalton for cap room. But Dalton doesn't need to be defended because he didn't even play in the game.

Sure, some people throw out playoff stats that make you mad, but that's like Joey Porter coming on to the field. Just ignore it. Dalton doesn't need your troll post defense, every Bengals fan knows what he is capable of. People that don't are Trolls, don't feed them. You guys get worked up so easily, its just what they want.

I just wanted to appreciate AJM for the brief time when it seemed like him and AJG would be heroes. That was taken from them and I'm sad for those guys. It has nothing to do with who I want to start next year tho. So just let me and others appreciate the backup and the improbable comeback that wasn't. 

(01-12-2016, 05:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: His guts are why I gave him a D+. I can't give a C to a QB that led the offense we saw saturday. I just can't. He was very inaccurate on numerous easy throws that could've kept drives going. 3 fumbles and a pick? He has to handle the weather better than that. 

You say that it's the D's job to keep the points low? I get that, but the defense we saw on Saturday wasn't there in any of the previous 4 playoff games. They actually showed up this time. That allowed Mac to stay in the game and make it close even though the offense was AWOL for 3 quarters. Normally 16 points ain't going to get it, sorry.

I'm trying to be as fair about this as possible, but it seems that any critical post about his performance is going to be deemed "hate". For pete's sake he had 3 fumbles, a pick, and put up 16 points against a crap defense. Is it really a stretch for some to not be impressed?

HAHAHHAAAAA....   This is becoming comical!!!

(01-12-2016, 05:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: His guts are why I gave him a D+. I can't give a C to a QB that led the offense we saw saturday. I just can't. He was very inaccurate on numerous easy throws that could've kept drives going. 3 fumbles and a pick? He has to handle the weather better than that. 

You say that it's the D's job to keep the points low? I get that, but the defense we saw on Saturday wasn't there in any of the previous 4 playoff games. They actually showed up this time. That allowed Mac to stay in the game and make it close even though the offense was AWOL for 3 quarters. Normally 16 points ain't going to get it, sorry.

I'm trying to be as fair about this as possible, but it seems that any critical post about his performance is going to be deemed "hate". For pete's sake he had 3 fumbles, a pick, and put up 16 points against a crap defense. Is it really a stretch for some to not be impressed?

AJM threw for a little over 200 yards. 98 of them came in the 4th QTR. Now, I'm willing to blame the coaches for not doing in the first 3 QTRs what they did in the 4th to get AJM going, but still. Just one more offensive drive with points and we're taking about the Patriots this week.

For the record, I want to keep him as our backup, but AJM didn't play week overall on Saturday. Meaning, I agree with Shake

I agree crazy to try to put AJM on Dalton level or to act like AJM did not perform ok for us. He came up short but he helped  get us in the playoffs I'm glad for that now settle back into the back role where he is going to be for the rest of his career with the Bengals

(01-12-2016, 08:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: AJM threw for a little over 200 yards. 98 of them came in the 4th QTR. Now, I'm willing to blame the coaches for not doing in the first 3 QTRs what they did in the 4th to get AJM going, but still. Just one more offensive drive with points and we're taking about the Patriots this week.

For the record, I want to keep him as our backup, but AJM didn't play week overall on Saturday. Meaning, I agree with Shake

Without the Shazier assault, we would have had that.

(01-11-2016, 06:46 PM)McC Wrote: The AJ hater brigade will be around directly to debunk this.

Just because I think Dalton is the better long term choice does not make me or anyone else who feels the same a hater.
I enjoyed what AJM was able to do this year in his 4 starts and his value as a backup is amazing
but at the end of the day I saw nothing to even begin to create an argument about the position
going forward IMO.

But make no mistakes there are definitely a few haters on both sides of the argument on this board.
Try not to lump everyone into that classification.

(01-12-2016, 08:08 PM)Junglejuice Wrote: Just because I think Dalton is the better long term choice does not make me or anyone else who feels the same a hater.
I enjoyed what AJM was able to do this year in his 4 starts and his value as a backup is amazing
but at the end of the day I saw nothing to even begin to create an argument about the position
going forward IMO.

But make no mistakes there are definitely a few haters on both sides of the argument on this board.
Try not to lump everyone into that classification.

Hater.

(01-12-2016, 07:52 PM)BayouBengal Wrote: This is the "How about AJ" thread isn't it?
I could have sworn I was in a pre-season who should be the QB thread for a minute...

This was supposed to be a thread about the backup. A few people came in here ready to throw him under the bus giving him horrible grades for the first 3 quarters and finding ways to blame the loss on him, trust me people see right through your agenda. 

I've just read through pretty much every post in this thread and no where does anyone say AJ is better than Dalton. A few make an argument that he may have progressed faster and one guy thinks we should trade Dalton for cap room. But Dalton doesn't need to be defended because he didn't even play in the game.

Sure, some people throw out playoff stats that make you mad, but that's like Joey Porter coming on to the field. Just ignore it. Dalton doesn't need your troll post defense, every Bengals fan knows what he is capable of. People that don't are Trolls, don't feed them. You guys get worked up so easily, its just what they want.

I just wanted to appreciate AJM for the brief time when it seemed like him and AJG would be heroes. That was taken from them and I'm sad for those guys. It has nothing to do with who I want to start next year tho. So just let me and others appreciate the backup and the improbable comeback that wasn't. 

I'm with you on this 100%. McCarron did well enough to win a playoff game, then watched it melt away with the rest of us. I'm happy that he's our backup QB, and don't want to trade him away period. He gives us what few teams have, the proven ability to keep our hopes alive when needed. 

(01-12-2016, 08:12 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: I'm with you on this 100%. McCarron did well enough to win a playoff game, then watched it melt away with the rest of us. I'm happy that he's our backup QB, and don't want to trade him away period. He gives us what few teams have, the proven ability to keep our hopes alive when needed. 

If 56.1% completion, 212 yards, 1 TD/1 INT, 5.2 YPA, 3 sacks, and 3 fumbles is well enough to win, then the Bengals can pick up most any QB around the league and there'd be no dropoff.

Dude had a pretty awful day.

(01-12-2016, 08:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If 56.1% completion, 212 yards, 1 TD/1 INT, 5.2 YPA, 3 sacks, and 3 fumbles is well enough to win, then the Bengals can pick up most any QB around the league and there'd be no dropoff.

Dude had a pretty awful day.

Since you asked for it...

Are you saying we never had a chance at winning? The QB didn't play well enough to pull it out in the end you say? Maybe you were watching a rerun of one of Andy Dalton's playoff appearances and just confused it with AJ's only appearance... Was there rain in the game you were watching? 

Yeah GFO dude... AJ almost won us a playoff game. It's obvious why you won't give him any credit and I'm tired of holding back and not calling you hater's out. 

Will AJ follow Hue to Cleveland? I have to admit THAT would be interesting.

(01-12-2016, 08:52 PM)BayouBengal Wrote: Since you asked for it...

Are you saying we never had a chance at winning? The QB didn't play well enough to pull it out in the end you say? Maybe you were watching a rerun of one of Andy Dalton's playoff appearances and just confused it with AJ's only appearance... Was there rain in the game you were watching? 

Yeah GFO dude... AJ almost won us a playoff game. It's obvious why you won't give him any credit and I'm tired of holding back and not calling you hater's out. 

Obviously some people did not appreciate what AJ did for us this year, which was the spirit of this thread. It's what some board members choose to do. Oh well.

(01-12-2016, 08:52 PM)BayouBengal Wrote: Since you asked for it...

Are you saying we never had a chance at winning? The QB didn't play well enough to pull it out in the end you say? Maybe you were watching a rerun of one of Andy Dalton's playoff appearances and just confused it with AJ's only appearance... Was there rain in the game you were watching? 

Yeah GFO dude... AJ almost won us a playoff game. It's obvious why you won't give him any credit and I'm tired of holding back and not calling you hater's out. 

No and no, actually. I didn't say either of those, so you can stop riding McCarron's D and go back to gazing into your avatar's eyes while sighing wistfully.

I didn't say they didn't have a chance of winning. I said their chance of winning wasn't due to McCarron. The defense played lights out, far better than they've ever played in any playoff game under Lewis. The Bengals were in line to win the game with 16 points... against the 30th ranked pass defense. The defense held the #3 offense and #4 scoring offense to 18 points (despite the offense turning the ball over FOUR times).

Anyone with that good of a defense showing behind them had a chance to win the game. If he had played a bit better in the first three quarters against the 30th ranked pass defense, maybe they could have won without it coming down to the wire.

(01-12-2016, 08:19 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If 56.1% completion, 212 yards, 1 TD/1 INT, 5.2 YPA, 3 sacks, and 3 fumbles is well enough to win, then the Bengals can pick up most any QB around the league and there'd be no dropoff.

Dude had a pretty awful day.

He was pretty ropey for 75% of the game for sure, but those numbers are basically an Andy Dalton playoff stats line as well...

Im not gunna pretend he was a world-beater, but I didn't think AJM was a backup out there. He was pretty poor UNTIL he could no longer afford to be. Was very clutch when the game was beginning to be beyond reach.

Don't forget Big Ben's statline on the other side, not like he racked up a big day either... infact the only difference between them were the turnovers (not understating them, but you would expect a veteran big game QB to make fewer mistakes than a backup in his 4th start).

(01-12-2016, 05:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: His guts are why I gave him a D+. I can't give a C to a QB that led the offense we saw saturday. I just can't. He was very inaccurate on numerous easy throws that could've kept drives going. 3 fumbles and a pick? He has to handle the weather better than that. 

You say that it's the D's job to keep the points low? I get that, but the defense we saw on Saturday wasn't there in any of the previous 4 playoff games. They actually showed up this time. That allowed Mac to stay in the game and make it close even though the offense was AWOL for 3 quarters. Normally 16 points ain't going to get it, sorry.

I'm trying to be as fair about this as possible, but it seems that any critical post about his performance is going to be deemed "hate". For pete's sake he had 3 fumbles, a pick, and put up 16 points against a crap defense. Is it really a stretch for some to not be impressed?

How on earth did you become a moderator? I mean I'm really serious. How?