(04-06-2017, 04:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And that's the problem. Molitor (or anyone else) does not have "every right" to hit Mixon (or anyone else) for any reason unless it was clearly self defense. Based on the video, she put her hands on him first and it wasn't based on self defense. He was walking away and she said something to him then shoved him.

What the problem is, is supposed men like you thinking that a person doesn't have the right to get physical if the person is "only using words".  He was being a nuisance from the beginning, she has every right to escalate as the situation dictated. 

How far does Mixon have to follow Molitor before you would consider his actions threatening?  What does he have to say?

He wasn't walking away.  That is the most ******** thing I have heard.

(04-06-2017, 04:16 PM)ochocincos Wrote: All this discussion has forced me to yet again go back and review the released video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoTXImRJS2k

Facts:
1) Molitor and her friend walk in first. Mixon walks in about 20 seconds later very slowly and casually. While there is no audio, he does not appear to be aggressively rushing into the cafe to pursue her.
2) At the 24-second mark in the video link above, Molitor beckons Mixon over with her hand. They begin to have a talk.
3) At the 36-second mark, Mixon turns toward the door. It appears as if he says something to the gentleman as he's walking away.
4) At the 38-second mark, Molitor says something back to Mixon and approaches him. This is followed almost immediately with a two-handed shove to Mixon's chest.
5) At the 39-second mark, just after the shove by Molitor, Mixon does a chest lunge with his hands down to his side. It appears as if it was of the same act as raising a fist to punch someone, but holding back without actually making contact.
6) At the 40-second mark, just after Mixon chest-lunged at Molitor, she slaps him on the right side of his face/neck area.
7) At the 41-second mark, just after Molitor slapped Mixon, he threw a right punch into right side of her face.
8) At the 45-second mark, Mixon walks out of the cafe

Both parties (Mixon and Molitor) stated that this incident started just outside of the cafe. Each side debates over why the incident occurred.
According to Molitor in an interview with newsok.com, she claims that Mixon was harassing her and her friends outside Pickleman's Gourmet Cafe before the incident.
http://newsok.com/article/5075926
According to Mixon in an interview with the same site, Molitor repeatedly instigated hostile conversations with Mixon and his companions outside Pickleman's Gourmey Cafe before the incident.
http://newsok.com/article/5530930

Unfortunately, there is no video or audio evidence outside of Pickleman's and no audio associated with the video from inside the cafe.
I have also not been able to find any true proof of what was actually said that started this incident. From the reports, Mixon's side believes Molitor initiated things and vice versa. It's essentially "he said, she said". And as far as I can tell, anyone talking about how Mixon was hitting on her, was rejected, and then wouldn't leave her alone is just speculating and doesn't actually have any proof to back that up.
If someone has actual proof of what was said that started this whole incident, please share, as I have not been able to find it.

Also, based on the video evidence alone, as an impartial observer, Mixon does not appear to be coming into the cafe aggressively to start something with Molitor, but he did choose to come in for whatever reason.
She is the one who initiates the argument once inside the cafe by beckoning him over with her hand. He could have chosen to avoid anything at that point, but he chose to go over to her table after being beckoned by her.
Something he said as he was walking away provoked Molitor to shove him. She should not have put her hands on him regardless of what was said.
After Molitor shoved Mixon, he made an action to imply going at her, but he did not strike her at that time. He could have chosen to just walk away or call the cops after she shoved him, but he chose not to.
After this lunge, Molitor reacted by slapping Mixon in the face/neck area. According to Mixon, it felt like "being hit by a dude". She made the decision to put her hands on him a second time.
Immediately after the slap, Mixon made the decision to throw a punch at Molitor. He could have chosen not to, but he did.

Also, from what appears in the video, not once does Molitor make any gesture to try and get away from Mixon or make a run at the door. He does not appear to be trying to "block the entrance" so that she cannot leave. There is also no evidence that there was not a back door.

So the entire point is this...anything leading up to the incident inside the cafe is subjective based on "he said, she said" and there is no proof of what actually started this whole argument between the two sides. There is proof that Molitor motioned for Mixon to approach her table at the cafe to have/continue a discussion/argument, and she put her hands on him twice. Both times were before he punched her. He could have chosen not to punch her but made the decision to do so, which was wrong. He cooperated with officials, issued an apology, and served the punishment that was allotted.

This was a series of events that escalated to the point it got to. Both parties were at fault, as both made the decision to approach the other and put their hands on each other. Molitor should not have motioned for Mixon to come to the table, she should not have pushed him, and she should not have slapped him. Mixon should not have entered the cafe knowing that she was in there, and he should not have thrown a punch.

You forgot to add "calmly" to 8 as if he didn't have a care in the world.

You need to get your eyes checked as Molitor doesn't "invite" Mixon to the table.  Molitor doesn't NEED to try to make a run for the door.  That FACT is that she was in the cafe booth that has 1 exit that Mixon was standing at.  Get those eyes check man.  You sound like a fanboy to me.

Mixon is at fault.  Period.  You can justify and rationalize all you want.  Hell, since you want Mixon so bad, why not shill for Ray Rice.  At least we know he can play in the NFL.

(04-06-2017, 05:10 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What proof do you have that Mixon admitted his interaction with Molitor started well before what happened in the cafe? He reported that their argument started outside the cafe, meaning directly outside. That doesn't mean it happened at another establishment. There is no proof that they met at another establishment, that he asked her out and she declined.

And what do you mean that there was no offering of a sincere apology? Big Boss already provided proof that he offered an apology. Now, you may not have felt the apology was "sincere", but that's just your opinion, not fact. Clearly, at least some of the posters here (Big Boss and rezolve11) believe it was sincere.

Mixon does not make a threatening gesture to Molitor until after she shoves him. Is Mixon not allowed to feel threatened from her after she shoves him? If someone shoves you, would you not feel threatened and get defensive?

http://www.oudaily.com/sports/oklahoma-football-amelia-molitor-told-police-joe-mixon-punched-her/article_b57a9caa-ef10-11e6-9ec1-077fb3173bac.html

Big Boss already provided a video.  I haven't seen this video.  I have only read online reports.  Notice I haven't been on this board long and just found it.

Mixon doesn't have the right to feel threatened due to him making sexual advances toward her and then harassing her and her friends as well as him following her.

You question is an appeal to stone.

You make it sound like Molitor just walked up and shoved Mixon for no reason.  Didn't happen that way.  If a woman shoves me for no reason, then yes, I *could* view her as a threat.  However being a man, I wouldn't worry to much about a shove from woman that looks to be a foot shorter than Molitor is from Mixon.  I know that if I wanted to, I could do serious harm to her and I would only use the necessary amount of force to subdue her, could be a punch, but not a full force blow.

(04-06-2017, 09:52 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: What the problem is, is supposed men like you thinking that a person doesn't have the right to get physical if the person is "only using words".  He was being a nuisance from the beginning, she has every right to escalate as the situation dictated. 

How far does Mixon have to follow Molitor before you would consider his actions threatening?  What does he have to say?

He wasn't walking away.  That is the most ******** thing I have heard.

Men like me? You don't know what kind of man I am, so shut your mouth. I am a man that doesn't believe in violence unless it is purely based on self defense. I am a man that believes both men and women should be held responsible for putting their hands on someone else. Gender does not matter. Everyone is equal.

You think a person has the right to get physical with someone else if that person is saying mean things to them? In today's society, people often say any mean thing to they want to others because there are no legal repercussions. And if you strike someone because they called you a name, you will be the one with the assault charge and going to jail, and the person who said something mean to you will not receive any punishment.

In fact, in another thread titled "Mixon Visiting Cincy", I said....

ochocincos Wrote:Imagine if people were actually able to get into legal trouble for offensive and mean things they said. Maybe people wouldn't be so quick to say things like that if they had to worry about repercussions and less incidents like this would happen.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Mixon-Visiting-Cincy?pid=365768#pid365768

Therefore, I am saying that I'm with you in that people should NOT be able to get away with saying any vile thing they want.
The difference is you are saying you support using physical violence when someone says something offensive or mean whereas I am saying there should be legal action.

You quoted my words in the other thread and followed up with...

YsCascadia Wrote:You mean like.... "F*** you white b*** and you little Fa^^^^ friend here?"


You know, what Mixon was probably saying when Molitor got "aggressive"?

So he can say whatever he wants, no matter how putrid and even get away with assaulting a girl, just because he claims he was threatened and uncomfortable when she finally struck him?

Again, he got his feelings hurt when she turned him down and he decided to escalate things.

You made the assumption that I was saying Molitor should have been the one to keep her mouth shut, but I said no such thing. My point was that if people were able to get into legal trouble over verbal abuse, Mixon and/or Molitor could have gotten in trouble prior to any physical altercation going down. If people had to worry about the things they said to each other, there's a decent chance fewer physical altercations would actually happen.

Also, what PROOF do you have that Mixon said "F*** you white b*** and you little Fa^^^^ friend here?" to Molitor? It's pure speculation and assumption on your part.
And why is it that you believe what Molitor said but you don't believe what Mixon said when he stated in an interview that Molitor and her friends said racial comments to him?
Why couldn't it be that both said mean and vile things to each other? And why do you think it's ok for a woman to hit a man who says mean things? Is it because you think women are weaker than men and therefore that makes it ok? What if Molitor was a man of the same height and weight as her and then proceeded to do the exact same thing to Mixon? Should it then be ok for Mixon to hit him because he's a man? Should it be ok for the man to hit Mixon?

You keep saying things like Mixon hit on Molitor, said vile things to her, prevented her from leaving the cafe, etc. There is no PROOF of that. And any time I or anyone else in these threads ask you to provide proof, you simply ignore it. Now, if there is proof of what was actually said, it's not easily found and you should provide a link to what was said to support your argument. Because honestly, I think that you have put an emotional attachment on this incident and look at things so black and white that, in your mind, there's no possible way that Molitor could have said any mean or offensive things to Mixon but he said all these mean and offensive things to her.
The reality is this is a grey area where both parties are at fault, both had a chance to walk away, and both had a hand in how things escalated.

In my opinion and in today's legal system, it does not matter whether you are a man or woman. You do not have any right to cause physical harm to someone else unless it is purely in self defense. Period.

(04-06-2017, 10:09 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: http://www.oudaily.com/sports/oklahoma-football-amelia-molitor-told-police-joe-mixon-punched-her/article_b57a9caa-ef10-11e6-9ec1-077fb3173bac.html

Big Boss already provided a video.  I haven't seen this video.  I have only read online reports.  Notice I haven't been on this board long and just found it.

Mixon doesn't have the right to feel threatened due to him making sexual advances toward her and then harassing her and her friends as well as him following her.

You question is an appeal to stone.

You make it sound like Molitor just walked up and shoved Mixon for no reason.  Didn't happen that way.  If a woman shoves me for no reason, then yes, I *could* view her as a threat.  However being a man, I wouldn't worry to much about a shove from woman that looks to be a foot shorter than Molitor is from Mixon.  I know that if I wanted to, I could do serious harm to her and I would only use the necessary amount of force to subdue her, could be a punch, but not a full force blow.

You provided a link that clearly says "Amelia Molitor TOLD POLICE Joe Mixon punched her after she denied sexual advances." Just because this was stated by her does not make it true. Just like Mixon saying Molitor used racial slurs doesn't make it true. People lie all the time. Unless there's recorded evidence of the audio and multiple witnesses to what was said, it becomes "he said, she said".

How do you know why Molitor shoved Mixon? How do you know what was said?

According to https://oklahoma.rivals.com/news/mixon-charged-with-misdemeanor-offense-in-alleged-assault, Mixon was listed at 6'2" 210 lbs, and Molitor was listed at 5'6" 130 lbs.
Just because YOU wouldn't worry too much about a shove from a woman of that size doesn't mean Mixon (or anyone else) wouldn't or shouldn't.
How do you know you would "only use the necessary amount of force" to subdue her? What is considered "necessary" is subjective.