(08-15-2017, 02:31 PM)McC Wrote: Okay.  We're just dumb asses who can't understand anything about subtleties or nuances or tone.  If a guys spends half a day creating a thread and then argues with every single person who disagrees, EVERY SINGLE ONE, that doesn't mean a thing.

More projection from you. 
Defending my position. 
And considering most of the disagrees with the exception of a few, have basically just been about WHO I AM and not what I posted or accusing me of wanting him to fail....yeah I feel like defending my position is fair. 

(08-15-2017, 02:33 PM)Joelist Wrote: Isn't the true question here "What is the meaning of successful?"

For an Offensive Lineman, successful means they hold the point on the interior and on the outside the hold their blocks and the edges no matter the type of play run. I saw the same things Royle saw, and my concern may be similar - if the only way Og can hold up is for us to confine our pass game to little scat passes we can get out in under 2 seconds then we have a problem. If on the other hand he can at least be competent on longer plays then things are better.

Also, line play is a unit type of thing. So it isn't just Og here - Bodine has to prove he can hold the point so the pocket actually has a nose the QB can step up into. If he does like he has so far in his career and gets pushed back then the job of the tackles is made more difficult.

Agreed. If it wasn't for Ogbuehi, we'd be seeing a bunch of similar threads on Bodine. Both are bad. Ogbuehi is just the worst out of the two.

(08-15-2017, 02:34 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: More projection from you. 
Defending my position. 
And considering most of the disagrees with the exception of a few, have basically just been about WHO I AM and not what I posted or accusing me of wanting him to fail....yeah I feel like defending my position is fair. 

Sure.  Whatever.  You might be a bit on the sensitive side.

(08-15-2017, 02:36 PM)McC Wrote: Sure.  Whatever.  You might be a bit on the sensitive side.

I'll tell you what, next thread you start I will jump in and just attack you as a person and never actually address the post okay?

I seem to be having great convos with Synric and rfaulk who disagree but actually addressed my post not me. Funny how that works.

(08-15-2017, 02:37 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I'll tell you what, next thread you start I will jump in and just attack you as a person and never actually address the post okay?

I never said a single thing about you as a person, except maybe your ability to see the future.    So, I'll say it again--too sensitive.

(08-15-2017, 02:39 PM)McC Wrote: I never said a single thing about you as a person, except maybe your ability to see the future.    So, I'll say it again--too sensitive.

So you admit you never addressed the post? 
Gotcha. 

There is a big bright spot though....Jake Fisher looked pretty damn good.

(08-15-2017, 02:41 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: So you admit you never addressed the post? 
Gotcha. 

That' what you got from what I said?  Are you channeling Fred?  You are clearly flailing.  We might be done here.

(08-15-2017, 02:42 PM)Synric Wrote: There is a big bright spot though....Jake Fisher looked pretty damn good.

He's next on my list of people to want to fail...I mean critique. 

(08-15-2017, 01:56 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: If you mean by bad bottom roster players, sure. 

But high end starters don't play like dog shit in the preseason then turn on the technique switch week one. 

They practice high level technique every week. 

It's their first live action in months. Form is something you have to maintain, not that you have or do not. Muscle memory is something you refine by repetition, so being off the field for 6 months is definitely enough to lose a little form on (not saying they're learning to walk again or anything). If they didn't have to get back in their groove as far as form goes, then what's the point of all of the position drills where they're not learning plays, but practicing form? 

(08-15-2017, 02:44 PM)treee Wrote: It's their first live action in months. Form is something you have to maintain, not that you have or do not. Muscle memory is something you refine by repetition, so being off the field for 6 months is definitely enough to lose a little form on (not saying they're learning to walk again or anything). If they didn't have to get back in their groove as far as form goes, then what's the point of all of the position drills where they're not learning plays, but practicing form? 

You can practice form without being on the field. An OL should never have to "get into form" for hitting his landmarks. He should just be able to. 
I haven't taken a live snap of football in 10 years. 
I can still remember my landmarks. 
You could grab Whitworth or Joe Thomas in April and ask them to hit their drops, and ABC steps and they would never miss a beat.

Doesn't your last point kind of defeat the purpose of the first? 
They don't stop doing this for 6 months. If they do, then they aren't as committed to it as they should be and that's a bigger problem. 

(08-15-2017, 02:43 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He's next on my list of people to want to fail...I mean critique. 

Let me just put it this way.  If you go to such incredible lengths to declare a player a lost cause, just how hard are you going to be rooting for him to prove you wrong?  And nice passive aggressiveness too.

(08-15-2017, 02:48 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: You can practice form without being on the field. An OL should never have to "get into form" for hitting his landmarks. He should just be able to. 
I haven't taken a live snap of football in 10 years. 
I can still remember my landmarks. 
You could grab Whitworth or Joe Thomas in April and ask them to hit their drops, and ABC steps and they would never miss a beat.

Doesn't your last point kind of defeat the purpose of the first? 
They don't stop doing this for 6 months. If they do, then they aren't as committed to it as they should be and that's a bigger problem. 

Yea and a Joe Whtiworth or Joe Thomas have been practicing their form as a professional for over 10 years now. Of course they could do it in their sleep. Ob came into the league as a mechanically underdeveloped guy with the physical tools to succeed. If he's going to show significant improvement in that regard, it's likely going to be in his sophomore year here. I'm not ready to write him off. I'm not disagreeing that he still has a long way to go. But you seem determined to feed into the pessimism of your fellow board members, when one can logically deduce that it is still possible for him to excel this year and contribute to the team positively.

(08-15-2017, 02:43 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He's next on my list of people to want to fail...I mean critique. 

It's night and day between Fisher and Ced. Of course you gotta take into account Gholston is easier to get your hands inside because of his size compared to the smaller and quicker Spence. He doesn't over extend himself and throw off his balance like he was last year. Fisher and Hopkins also beautifully pick up a stunt in the 2nd quarter.

(08-15-2017, 02:54 PM)treee Wrote: Yea and a Joe Whtiworth or Joe Thomas have been practicing their form as a professional for over 10 years now. Of course they could do it in their sleep. Ob came into the league as a mechanically underdeveloped guy with the physical tools to succeed. If he's going to show significant improvement in that regard, it's likely going to be in his sophomore year here. I'm not ready to write him off. I'm not disagreeing that he still has a long way to go. But you seem determined to feed into the pessimism of your fellow board members, when one can logically deduce that it is still possible for him to excel this year and contribute to the team positively.

Then why do other young OL not struggle with it? Hopkins has played 1 NFL game. He didn't miss his landmarks. Fisher wasn't missing them. What is the reasoning behind that? 
You practice this stuff all year. Not just during the season. If he's missing his landmarks because he wasn't practicing them enough in the off season, then that is a greater concern than anything else I posted. 

Jesus. What is with people assuming that critiquing play equates to feeding into pessimism or wanting a player to fail. It's a critique of a player who has shown gigantic struggles in the NFL and it's looking at why he is struggling. 

(08-15-2017, 02:56 PM)Synric Wrote: It's night and day between Fisher and Ced. Of course you gotta take into account Gholston is easier to get your hands inside because of his size compared to the smaller and quicker Spence. He doesn't over extend himself and throw off his balance like he was last year. Fisher and Hopkins also beautifully pick up a stunt in the 2nd quarter.

Just in how they react in their stance is a complete difference. One comes out ready to win, the other doesn't. 
Last year Fisher often got his weight on his back leg and that opened up the inside too often, which is worse. 
It will be interesting to see if he's been able to shift his weight to his inside leg. 

I will say the OP has proven to have a good understanding of what is required of an Olineman and has supported his position; although I disagree and have disagreed in the past. Trading an entire draft for Greg Robinson or Bodine's arms are too short to snap come to mind. Of course he was spot on with La'el Collins and Cordy Glenn if memory serves.

I think the negative connotation comes from trying to point out the negatives in technique while ignoring the positives in results. Perhaps we should wait until he gives up a sack or pressure.

(08-15-2017, 03:06 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Then why do other young OL not struggle with it? Hopkins has played 1 NFL game. He didn't miss his landmarks. Fisher wasn't missing them. What is the reasoning behind that? 

Now you're just being facetious argumentative for the sake of being argumentative in the face of a good point. Just because other players have better form in the same or less amount of time, does not mean that Ob's form can't improve and allow him to contribute this year. 

You practice this stuff all year. Not just during the season. If he's missing his landmarks because he wasn't practicing them enough in the off season, then that is a greater concern than anything else I posted. 

You can practice your form all you want in the offseason, but there's a reason preseason games exist, and that's because you refine your form in live action. Thought we went over this already...

Jesus. What is with people assuming that critiquing play equates to feeding into pessimism or wanting a player to fail. It's a critique of a player who has shown gigantic struggles in the NFL and it's looking at why he is struggling. 

I guess most standoffish people just come off as pessimistic. 

(08-15-2017, 03:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I will say the OP has proven to have a good understanding of what is required of an Olineman and has supported his position; although I disagree and have disagreed in the past. Trading an entire draft for Greg Robinson or Bodine's arms are too short to snap come to mind. Of course he was spot on with La'el Collins and Cordy Glenn if memory serves.

I think the negative connotation comes from trying to point out the negatives in technique while ignoring the positives in results. Perhaps we should wait until he gives up a sack or pressure.

You know that might actually be right. If you watch you can tell Bodines biggest issue is firing out of his stance after the snap. That's why against quicker tackles they are always in his body before he has a chance to fire out with his arms...but I've never once thought it could be because of his arms which is a possibility.

Why are people calling Ogbeuhi OB? Wouldn't it be OG? What did I miss?

(08-15-2017, 03:37 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Why are people calling Ogbeuhi OB? Wouldn't it be OG? What did I miss?

Dunno, makes sense to call him Og. An oversight I suppose.