(08-23-2017, 12:55 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Man I really liked McNichols. I haven't heard anything about him this pre season, you know if he's doing any good. Hell I don't even know who drafted him.

He's buried on the TB depth chart. They have Martin, Rodgers, and Sims all ahead of him.

(08-23-2017, 04:27 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Ya beat me to it. I tell what, Cleveland is building one hell of a team. I'm not saying This because they picked up Thompson, just led me to this topic. They have a scary D line, their quietly loading up on skill players. They get a QB look out. I know it sounds silly but this is a team that could flip the AFCN upside down.

lol no they aren't. You should've watched the Giants game; if that's ANY indication, they will be scrap heap yet again.

(08-23-2017, 09:48 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Browns also have one of the best OL's in NFL and DL is fast becoming very good. You win and lose in the trenches so they are building in the right places. I do question their CB's and their skill players. Britt is a good but not great #1 and Coleman will be good as well, but I don't see them helping an average QB excel even with that great OL.

They had a great oline from 2012 or so-2015 and they still did nothing, albeit a bit better than their worst years. They have serious issues in the skill positions, thus negating their lines.

(08-23-2017, 10:46 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Agree.....but as you say, the foundation is laid in the trenches....and they are very solid there.  A few skill guys here and there in FA and draft, land a good QB.....and this team could hang around for several years.

That's what was said in 2011... and they added those pieces. Still nothing.

(08-23-2017, 11:48 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Did you see Ereck Flowers try to block Myles Garrett? 

Mhm, Garrett beat him, maybe once? And not on the sack either; that was pure Geno. Flowers held up super well.

(08-23-2017, 11:59 AM)sandwedge Wrote: I wasn't to impress with Garrett during that game.

Mhm. He did basically nothing.

Cleveland has had great, "potential," since 2010, but they haven't been able to do anything. Both QGs (because Kessler and Hogan may not even be on the team come opening day) looked fairly deplorable (Kizer better, but only because a phantom penalty was called and it negated a TD, plus allowed him to pad the stats) on Monday and anything against a first-team vanilla D in the Giants, led to not much going on.

There wasn't a crapload of pressure from Vernon either (if anyone wants to bring up Joe Thomas not playing) and the line held up decently. Gonzalez and Parkey looked the same (Gonzalez's kicks move a crap ton; they weren't straight on Monday). Garrett may have not bveen unleashed, but he had only 2 splash plays in around 30 snaps or so.

As I've mentioned, the preseason means absolutely nothing, however since I don't know the Browns even close to how I know our Bengals, if the preseason is ANY inidication on how the team will play, they'll be picking in the top 5 yet again, period.

BTW, Nuge' had a stud game and he looks to have knocked off his inconsistencies. I think he'll win the job in NY.

(08-23-2017, 11:48 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Did you see Ereck Flowers try to block Myles Garrett? 

No, I only caught minimal bits and pieces of the replay last night while I was grilling out.

(08-23-2017, 01:15 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: That's what was said in 2011... and they added those pieces. Still nothing.








BTW, Nuge' had a stud game and he looks to have knocked off his inconsistencies. I think he'll win the job in NY.

Hell, half of those pieces wound up suspended.  Seriously, I think the management has come around, I think Hue is the best coach they've had since Butch Davis, and I think the pieces they're adding (and gluttony of draft picks they have) put them in a much better place than 2011.  JMO.


Sounds about right, they leave here, go on to star elsewhere....lol.

(08-21-2017, 02:21 AM)Shady Wrote: Just saw that he's been cut. How long before they announce they signed the latest scrub Olineman to take his roster spot?

I expected Thompson to get cut, no surprise.

(08-22-2017, 01:15 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: This is a great post. 

Bengals DE's drafted 2009 to 2016: 

Michael Jonson - 6'7" 260+
Carlos Dunlap - 6'6" 290
Margus Hunt - 6'8" 277
Will Clarke - 6'6" 271


If you look at the top sack leaders from 2016, you have to get to the 13th rank to find a guy over 265 lbs. 
Most are in that 6'5 and under and 250-260 range in weight. 

And when you keep going back, outside of GREAT players like Watt, you notice that you will only see statistical outlying seasons from guys over those benchmarks. And even Watt doesn't rush from the edge. 

*I am really only looking at Edge rushers.*

They just haven't been drafting proficient pass rusher types before Lawson and Willis.

They have invested alot more in the interior guys and have gotten very little production there too. Maybe this is a result of the switch between Hayes and Burney

(08-23-2017, 02:37 PM)Synric Wrote: They have invested alot more in the interior guys and have gotten very little production there too. Maybe this is a result of the switch between Hayes and Burney

Very true.
Thompson, Still, Hardison....

I liked Hardison but they had one hell of an idea playing him as a DE at 310 lbs. Then he gets hurt. 
Then they keep playing him at DE.

I just don't know some times. 

(08-23-2017, 01:27 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: No, I only caught minimal bits and pieces of the replay last night while I was grilling out.



Hell, half of those pieces wound up suspended.  Seriously, I think the management has come around, I think Hue is the best coach they've had since Butch Davis, and I think the pieces they're adding (and gluttony of draft picks they have) put them in a much better place than 2011.  JMO.


Sounds about right, they leave here, go on to star elsewhere....lol.

Hue is the only real thing they have going for them, IMO; the only other time they had a competent coach was with Chud (and the whole world and their mother knew that his leash was tons too short). Hell, Pettine looked like he may have righted things, but he too, turned out to be a quack.

Again, just preseason!

Still think he'll win it though.

(08-23-2017, 02:48 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Very true.
Thompson, Still, Hardison....

I liked Hardison but they had one hell of an idea playing him as a DE at 310 lbs. Then he gets hurt. 
Then they keep playing him at DE.

I just don't know some times. 

Besides Burfict...and Gilberry there has not been a productive front 7 player added in the Dalton era. What makes it even worse none from the draft lol.

(08-23-2017, 03:27 PM)Synric Wrote: Besides Burfict...and Gilberry there has not been a productive front 7 player added in the Dalton era. What makes it even worse none from the draft lol.

Even then, Gilberry hasn't been productive since 2013. 

(08-23-2017, 03:33 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Even then, Gilberry hasn't been productive since 2013. 

Well, he was productive last year, albeit in limited action.

(08-23-2017, 03:52 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Well, he was productive last year, albeit in limited action.

Not really.
He was a lost cause vs run and he had a handful of okay pass rush reps but he's long past prime. 

(08-23-2017, 04:15 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Not really.
He was a lost cause vs run and he had a handful of okay pass rush reps but he's long past prime. 

Agreed

(08-22-2017, 12:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Agreed. For me though (and maybe this is my flaw), I believe a player has fully grown after their third year. I don't see many players suddenly improving a lot in their fourth year or later. It's why I've been harder on Bodine than most. Bodine has had three years of full season reps and now into his fourth offseason and he's still bottom tier. I think he's capped out in terms of his potential.

I agree with you that this team's philosophy (at least in the Dalton era) has been to try to build through the draft vs FA. However, there have been quite a few whiffs that have derailed the seasons so far. IMO if the team really put that much stake into the draft, they would invest into more (and arguably some better?) scouting and coaching. This FO and these coaches seem to have had a "type" of player they are always going after, and they've seemed too stubborn to change that philosophy for years even when there's been multiple instances to prove that philosophy is not working and in some cases hasn't worked for quite some time.

In recent memory, here have been the "types" of players the Bengals have pursued:
- Big, long power 4-3 base DEs
- Athletic OL
- Big, somewhat slow LBs that are predominantly run stuffers but struggle in coverage
- DBs that have some experience defending the run rather than ball hawks

EDIT - At least in regards to the DEs and LBs, this team seems to have finally taken a risk and done what many of us fans have asked for, and that's attempting to add some speed rushers and faster LBs that are better in coverage. It's a bit too early to tell, but indications so far are that we fans barking for years about changing things up in those areas might actually have been right all along.

Listen, I know it's not realistic for every player to be a top 15 player. But that doesn't mean the team shouldn't strive to achieve it. The real issue is that this team seems to accept certain players/positions being a lower tier starter year after year without making any concerted effort to challenge said player to either vastly improve or risk losing his starting spot.

Now, some people (at least on these forums) seem to buy into the thinking that the Bengals staff knows their players better than we ever could because they have (much more) experience in football and are employed by the team whereas we are essentially "armchair quarterbacks". However, I believe that just because someone has more experience in a field or has worked for a certain company doesn't necessarily make them better than someone who hasn't. I very much believe some of our fellow board members would add value to the Bengals or whichever team that would employ them.

A big part of good roster management is finding players that fit the scheme, however.  Big oversized DE's fit that scheme.  The Bengals are working in smaller pass rushers, but need to adapt their scheme accordingly.

In some cases, the kinds of players we get is also directly affected by the priority placed on the position.  Dhani Jones wasn't a big, slow, thumper.  However, when the position group has largely been stocked with third tier FA's, UDFA's, and late round picks, you aren't going to get uber athletic guys.

I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion, but an NFL organization trusting fans with personnel decisions would be disastrous.  The Bengals putting one of us in a FO position would be akin to someone who watched the World Series of Poker on tv sitting down at a table full of Poker pros.  We might win a couple of hands, but we'd be broke in short order.

(08-23-2017, 10:15 PM)Whatever Wrote: A big part of good roster management is finding players that fit the scheme, however.  Big oversized DE's fit that scheme.  The Bengals are working in smaller pass rushers, but need to adapt their scheme accordingly.

In some cases, the kinds of players we get is also directly affected by the priority placed on the position.  Dhani Jones wasn't a big, slow, thumper.  However, when the position group has largely been stocked with third tier FA's, UDFA's, and late round picks, you aren't going to get uber athletic guys.

I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion, but an NFL organization trusting fans with personnel decisions would be disastrous.  The Bengals putting one of us in a FO position would be akin to someone who watched the World Series of Poker on tv sitting down at a table full of Poker pros.  We might win a couple of hands, but we'd be broke in short order.

I'm curious to see some type of revenue differential example (hypothetical or real if it exists) for a team that went like 4-12 vs 8-8 that just missed the playoffs vs 10-6 and got knocked out of the first round of the playoffs.
The reason I bring this up is because ultimately we always hear that if you didn't win a playoff game, you might as well have not made the playoffs at all and had a bad season. I would have to imagine revenue for making the playoffs and losing would be better than both of the other scenarios, but I'm just curious to how much more.

(08-23-2017, 10:15 PM)Whatever Wrote: I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion, but an NFL organization trusting fans with personnel decisions would be disastrous.  The Bengals putting one of us in a FO position would be akin to someone who watched the World Series of Poker on tv sitting down at a table full of Poker pros.  We might win a couple of hands, but we'd be broke in short order.

For most teams, I would agree. For the Bengals, we could literally let anyone run the team for 26 years and they could match Mike Brown's postseason success. Our owner/GM simply isn't getting it done. We want to build through the draft, yet have the smallest scouting department in the NFL. There is no accountability for the coaching staff. If you get in good with the Browns, you have a job for life. With obvious areas that need improvement, we're going to roll into the season with $18m in cap space. Our owner/GM can easily be questioned on his desire to win. The list goes on and on, but I'll stop there.

As far as our Bengals are concerned, we could let anyone in the world be owner/GM and they could do as well in the postseason as our current owner/GM.

Let me be GM .i could do 26 years without a playoffs game on purpose. Unlike the Bengals

(08-24-2017, 10:18 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: For most teams, I would agree. For the Bengals, we could literally let anyone run the team for 26 years and they could match Mike Brown's postseason success. Our owner/GM simply isn't getting it done. We want to build through the draft, yet have the smallest scouting department in the NFL. There is no accountability for the coaching staff. If you get in good with the Browns, you have a job for life. With obvious areas that need improvement, we're going to roll into the season with $18m in cap space. Our owner/GM can easily be questioned on his desire to win. The list goes on and on, but I'll stop there.

As far as our Bengals are concerned, we could let anyone in the world be owner/GM and they could do as well in the postseason as our current owner/GM.

Depends on how you see things.  Making the playoffs is a certain degree of postseason success, imo.  This "I could have as much postseason success line" that keeps making the rounds is a pretty silly argument, imo.  You may as well say you should be the starting QB, because no way you could have less playoff wins than Andy Dalton, or you should be a NASCAR driver because no way you could win less races than Danica Patrick.

Sorry, but I refuse to get worked up over cap space until the cutoff for the year.  People complain about it every single year, then they sign some extensions and/or bring in some players.  

(08-23-2017, 02:48 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Very true.
Thompson, Still, Hardison....

I liked Hardison but they had one hell of an idea playing him as a DE at 310 lbs. Then he gets hurt. 
Then they keep playing him at DE.

I just don't know some times. 

While I liked the Hardison selection at the time, I thought of him strictly as a 4-3 DT. Playing him at DE was/is stupid.
And I like Grady Jarrett more than Hardison.
I thought Jarrett reminded me so much of Geno and figured the Bengals FO would have seen the same given how successful Geno had been and they are about the same size.
So far, the Bengals looks like they selected the wrong pass rusher between the two.

(08-24-2017, 01:00 PM)Whatever Wrote: Depends on how you see things.  Making the playoffs is a certain degree of postseason success, imo.  This "I could have as much postseason success line" that keeps making the rounds is a pretty silly argument, imo.  You may as well say you should be the starting QB, because no way you could have less playoff wins than Andy Dalton, or you should be a NASCAR driver because no way you could win less races than Danica Patrick.

Sorry, but I refuse to get worked up over cap space until the cutoff for the year.  People complain about it every single year, then they sign some extensions and/or bring in some players.  

You know, I have been one that had been criticizing the Bengals for not getting at least one of Burfict or Eifert locked up with that extra cap space lying around because I remembered players like Geno Atkins getting locked up early. However, I had thought Atkins was locked up in early-mid August, but now that I go back and look it up, it was actually Sept 2.
So there's still time for Eifert and/or Burfict to get a deal done. I (and some others) need to give it another week or two.

It's been pretty quiet on the extensions hopefully coming. They normally surprise us with those announcements.