(11-26-2018, 11:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Which team was more successful over the previous 15 years

91-148-1..... .381%..... 2 winning seasons..... 11 losing seasons..... 1 playoff win
125-112-3... .527%..... 7 winning seasons.....  5 losing seasons..... 0 playoff wins

Ahh...the old compare the Bengals to the worst of the worst to try to prove a point.

Why don't you compare us to the Steelers or Patriots or Ravens or teams that have actually won Super Bowls?

(11-26-2018, 11:50 PM)Whatever Wrote: O'Neal had 9 picks in '01.  Pretty sure he made it as a CB.

Thornton started 16 games his second year in the league.  He only played 3 the following year when dealing with injury, but started all 16 games the following year before hitting FA.  He was not a backup that left to be a starter.

Nobody wanted TO's attitude, but he still had plenty of ability.

Bryant hid his injury, but he was a big name.  He and TO were the top rated UFA WR's in the 2010 class.

If the complaint is not adding quality veterans to help Marvin win(as Fred has), then it's more than fair to point out quality veterans the team added via trade.

Look...any argument about Marvin starts and stops with MB and the Bengals Management because they choose to have him as the coach.

We all know that we have a small scouting dept.

Tom Coughlin interviewed here and supposedly told his friends that he didn't know if he could win here the way the organization was structured.

(11-27-2018, 01:05 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ahh...the old compare the Bengals to the worst of the worst to try to prove a point.

Why don't you compare us to the Steelers or Patriots or Ravens or teams that have actually won Super Bowls?

Because so many here claim that every team that has won a playoff game in the last 15 years has been more successful than the Bengals.

It is a silly to use that as the only measure of success.

Well this years free agency period will be much more pleasant now that so many Bengal fans have changed their mind and no longer have a problem with the way Mike Brown handles free agency.

(11-26-2018, 11:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Which team was more successful over the previous 15 years

91-148-1..... .381%..... 2 winning seasons..... 11 losing seasons..... 1 playoff win
125-112-3... .527%..... 7 winning seasons.....  5 losing seasons..... 0 playoff wins

So, in the win now, what have you done for me lately NFL, we have to go back fifteen years to make Marvin look good. 

He went to the playoffs five straight times...but that ended nearly three years ago.  The very fact that five straight years in the playoffs was followed up by two very ugly losing seasons and what looks for all the world like a third, is in itself grounds for removal.

Face it, whatever past glory he has had is gone and probably cancelled out by catastrophe.

(11-27-2018, 01:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Well this years free agency period will be much more pleasant now that so many Bengal fans have changed their mind and no longer have a problem with the way Mike Brown handles free agency.

Way to stay on the topic.

(11-27-2018, 01:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Because so many here claim that every team that has won a playoff game in the last 15 years has been more successful than the Bengals.

It is a silly to use that as the only measure of success.

What does it say that a team with a win percentage somewhere in the 38% wins more playoff games than a team that's win percentage is around 53%?

With 7 playoff appearances, you'd think we'd luck into a win. Same with primetime games and games against the Steelers. How are we so bad?

(11-27-2018, 01:08 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Look...any argument about Marvin starts and stops with MB and the Bengals Management because they choose to have him as the coach.

We all know that we have a small scouting dept.

Tom Coughlin interviewed here and supposedly told his friends that he didn't know if he could win here the way the organization was structured.

I'm not going to say MB is a good owner/GM because he isn't.  If he was, he would have fired Marvin a long time ago.  There are other issues like not getting the indoor practice field addressed, as well.

If Mikey was more aggressive in FA and/or upgraded the scouting department, Marvin probably would have had more talent to work with.  At the same time, Marvin could never get this team to perform to it's talent level in primetime or in playoff games.  We are or were never going to win a title with him unless we had a team stacked like the early '90's Cowboys that even a schmuck like Barry Switzer could win a title with.

I guarantee that Coughlin would not be 0-7 in the playoffs if he had gotten the Bengals job.  With the same rosters, he would have at least made the AFCCG a couple of times, and maybe then he could get Mikey to open the purse strings.  Or he may have gone on one of those magical Giants runs and won it all with a less talented team.

 

(11-27-2018, 03:41 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm not going to say MB is a good owner/GM because he isn't.  If he was, he would have fired Marvin a long time ago.  There are other issues like not getting the indoor practice field addressed, as well.

If Mikey was more aggressive in FA and/or upgraded the scouting department, Marvin probably would have had more talent to work with.  At the same time, Marvin could never get this team to perform to it's talent level in primetime or in playoff games.  We are or were never going to win a title with him unless we had a team stacked like the early '90's Cowboys that even a schmuck like Barry Switzer could win a title with.

I guarantee that Coughlin would not be 0-7 in the playoffs if he had gotten the Bengals job.  With the same rosters, he would have at least made the AFCCG a couple of times, and maybe then he could get Mikey to open the purse strings.  Or he may have gone on one of those magical Giants runs and won it all with a less talented team.

 

But that's just it...Coughlin didn't think he could win here and wanted more scouts and presumably a GM.

(11-27-2018, 03:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But that's just it...Coughlin didn't think he could win here and wanted more scouts and presumably a GM.

If Coughlin was being honest, he probably didn't think he was going to the most stacked team in NFL history with the arguably greatest HC and QB in the history of the game either.

I guess the question is, do you think Marvin has gotten the most out of the talent he's had here? 

(11-27-2018, 03:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But that's just it...Coughlin didn't think he could win here and wanted more scouts and presumably a GM.

What the hell does Coughlin know about what Coughlin could do.

Doesn't he know that one of the most popular ways to prove a point around here is to make up something out of thin air and claim it is a fact?  

(11-27-2018, 03:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: But that's just it...Coughlin didn't think he could win here and wanted more scouts and presumably a GM.

Exactly, he walked away and any high level coach will do the same today given how Mikey operates. 

(11-27-2018, 01:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Well this years free agency period will be much more pleasant now that so many Bengal fans have changed their mind and no longer have a problem with the way Mike Brown handles free agency.

Or.....this is just your hyperbolic spin on what they actually said.

(11-27-2018, 05:15 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Or.....this is just your hyperbolic spin on what they actually said.

So will you admit that Mike Brown's free agency policies hinder the Bengals chances of winning?

(11-27-2018, 05:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So will you admit that Mike Brown's free agency policies hinder the Bengals chances of winning?

Most of his policies hinder the chances of winning.

And I would love to the list of high priced, top tier free agents that Marvin has brought in for interviews. Ebenezer would never sign off on the coach ticket and Wendy’s value meal for a player he knows we won’t even sign


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(11-27-2018, 05:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So will you admit that Mike Brown's free agency policies hinder the Bengals chances of winning?

I've answered this question for you a few times now, but because I'm in a good mood today, I'll try one more time:

Yes, Mike's incompetence as an owner/GM absolutely hinders the Bengals chances of anything more than regular season wins.

Yes, Marvin's inadequacies as a head coach absolutely hinders the Bengals chances of anything more than regular season wins.

When you combine the two, the best you can hope for is regular season success...some of the time.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can put it and don't understand why it's so difficult to grasp.

(11-27-2018, 05:30 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I've answered this question for you a few times now, but because I'm in a good mood today, I'll try one more time:

Yes, Mike's incompetence as an owner/GM absolutely hinders the Bengals chances of anything more than regular season wins.

Yes, Marvin's inadequacies as a head coach absolutely hinders the Bengals chances of anything more than regular season wins.

When you combine the two, the best you can hope for is regular season success...some of the time.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can put it.  

Ah, clarity is the bane of all trolls


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(11-27-2018, 01:15 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Because so many here claim that every team that has won a playoff game in the last 15 years has been more successful than the Bengals.

I'm curious as to what you think here, Fred.

Without us squabbling over this or that.

If Mike is hindering in a way that cannot be overcome, then Why do you think Marvin chose to stay here all of these years ?

Why do you think he stayed ?

(11-27-2018, 06:18 PM)depthchart Wrote: If Mike is hindering in a way that cannot be overcome, then Why do you think Marvin chose to stay here all of these years ?

Why do you think he stayed ?

Because he knew exactly what he was signing up for when he got here.  It would be disingenuous of him to leave because he did not get front office support when he knew what he was going to get all along.

If he had left the haters would have given him the Kevin Durant treatment and claim he "quit on his players" and "took the easy way out".

He obviously welcomes the challenge and feels that if he wins here it would be a great accomplishment.  And he came damn close in 2015.  If Andy was not injured that could have been our year.

(11-27-2018, 06:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Because he knew exactly what he was signing up for when he got here.  It would be disingenuous of him to leave because he did not get front office support when he knew what he was going to get all along.

If he had left the haters would have given him the Kevin Durant treatment and claim he "quit on his players" and "took the easy way out".

He obviously welcomes the challenge and feels that if he wins here it would be a great accomplishment.  And he came damn close in 2015.  If Andy was not injured that could have been our year.

Given all the variables of the Organization, they do have to "thread the needle" so to speak to get everything aligned right enough to make a run.

I agree that 2015 had the makings of a "threaded needle" season where all things came together well for that 8 and 0 start.

I suspect Marvin will be here in 2019 for another try and it would be an NFL rattling achievement if the Organization were to go all the way.