(05-15-2019, 05:51 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is outstanding. +1!

I love the “mush-rush” description because it’s true.  Watching talent like Geno Atkins basically wrestling offensive linemen was so frustrating because defensive line play has developed far beyond the standard bull rush scheme of yesteryear.  I can sort of see where Teryl Austin came from because coaching Ndamukong Suh and Ziggy Ansah in Detroit, both of whom are Justin Smith-esque bull rush guys, isn’t the same as mentoring Geno or especially Carlos Dunlap.

Geno is more of a leverage player and Carlos needs to learn spin moves, etc, which take advantage of his height and speed.  The Bengals haven’t actually run defensive line stunts since Mike Zimmer was here, either.

Go on YouTube and look at some of the highlights from the Bengals defense when Mike Zimmer was here. The difference between then and now is shocking. Have a barf bag handy.

Exactly. Zimmer had those defensive stunts where the DTs would swap AB gaps  -- almost always confused the offensive line and led to huge pressure and sacks. I miss those days. 

(05-15-2019, 06:01 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I don't think so we were down for the majority of the games against the Colts, Falcons, and Dolphins.

The Colts Game, didn't we comeback in the 4th Quarter? It was close though.

The Falcons Game was an awesome back and forth game. Fun to watch.

(05-15-2019, 07:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Colts Game, didn't we comeback in the 4th Quarter? It was close though.

The Falcons Game was an awesome back and forth game. Fun to watch.

Yep

(05-15-2019, 02:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Jim Miller and Pat Kirwin are going to be talking AFC North pass rushing today and I'm sure they'll have Cincy at the bottom. To make matters worse they'll likely have that "Dave from Cincy" dude call in (he has to be a prop) and make the fanbase look more foolish clueless. While everyone will be slobbing over Pitt and Cleveland.

There's a chance I'll call in and try to make a case for use, but I need your help. Give me some ammo. AKA....why we were last in sacks last year, what additions we have going forward, does the coaching change make a difference, ect.. I know Fred brings up something about Hubbard last year. Or give me something that will cause the other AFC North teams to fail.

So what do we have? Also I don't have to be the one to call in. If anyone else plans to, wants to. The number is 1-800-NFL-KICK and the show starts at 3 PM on Sirius channel 88. If you call in do it early; as you'll be on hold for a while if you can get through.

BTW, if "Dave from Cincy" is a board member...no offense.

Ammo - Geno...bar none one of the best and most dominant interior pass rushers in the game. Has averaged nearly 8 sacks a season during his career.

Carlos - Relentless silky smooth rusher that can flat go thru you if he has to. Has averaged just over 8 sacks a season for his career.

Sam Hubbard - Showed himself pretty damn good in his rookies season. 6 sacks, 9 QB hits, 7 TFL.

Andrew Brown - Could be an interior wild card guy. Was a pretty dominant interior rusher at the collegiate level who spent his rookie season battling a couple of injuries on the practice squad. Could be a guy that comes in and spells Geno and sees decent production doing so.
Carl Lawson - 8.5 sacks as rookie. Played limited snaps last season while recovering from his injury but no reason to think he will not return to form.

(05-15-2019, 04:29 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Hopefully the scheme change helps. Last year while Austin was running things, it appeared the d-line was held to doing mush-rush. Basically rush the passer within your lane and don’t let the QB break contain. I’d like to see guys like Dunlap, Lawson and Hubbard have more freedom to improvise and use multiple moves.

(05-15-2019, 05:51 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This is outstanding. +1!

I love the “mush-rush” description because it’s true.  Watching talent like Geno Atkins basically wrestling offensive linemen was so frustrating because defensive line play has developed far beyond the standard bull rush scheme of yesteryear.  I can sort of see where Teryl Austin came from because coaching Ndamukong Suh and Ziggy Ansah in Detroit, both of whom are Justin Smith-esque bull rush guys, isn’t the same as mentoring Geno or especially Carlos Dunlap.

Geno is more of a leverage player and Carlos needs to learn spin moves, etc, which take advantage of his height and speed.  The Bengals haven’t actually run defensive line stunts since Mike Zimmer was here, either.

Go on YouTube and look at some of the highlights from the Bengals defense when Mike Zimmer was here. The difference between then and now is shocking. Have a barf bag handy.

(05-15-2019, 06:41 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: Exactly. Zimmer had those defensive stunts where the DTs would swap AB gaps  -- almost always confused the offensive line and led to huge pressure and sacks. I miss those days. 

Right on

Especially the first half of the season we played the most vanilla defense ever to take an NFL field ! No stunting linemen, no last second shifts, basically no blitzing and on and on. Even the first couple games under Marvin were pretty mundane.

A defense just by pure nature has to have aggressiveness to it, you can't rope a dope the entire game.

The DL issues last year were a mix of injuries, bad LB play behind them and bad line scheming. No stunts, no twists, just straight up beat your guy seemed to be the plan most of the year. Hopefully our new DC starts using scheme to open it up for our rushers.

Scheme could be huge part of it. I think throughout the Marvin era we've asked a lot of our DE's. I rarely saw them just ears pinned back only worrying about pass rush. They always seemed to have to keep some kind of gap control and then go unless it was like 3rd and a million. I think I've seen Carlos touch on this when he was upset one time but caught himself and didn't really expand on it.

As much my initial feelings disliked the Wren pick. It would be nice to have a giant menace in the middle putting centers onto their asses. I could see Hubbard, Willis, or even free agent pick up Wynn playing the role as pass rushing DT along with Geno. But none sound as awesome as Wren working out as a draft pick and being able to harness his potential to frequently collapse the pocket along the interior with Geno.

(05-15-2019, 09:02 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right on

Especially the first half of the season we played the most vanilla defense ever to take an NFL field ! No stunting linemen, no last second shifts, basically no blitzing and on and on. Even the first couple games under Marvin were pretty mundane.

A defense just by pure nature has to have aggressiveness to it, you can't rope a dope the entire game.

Agreed. We basically played a preseason type vanilla defense. What a strange year that was.

You know, last preseason if you told me that our defense would be terrible...I wouldn't have believe it.

(05-15-2019, 10:19 PM)bonesaw Wrote: Scheme could be huge part of it.  I think throughout the Marvin era we've asked a lot of our DE's.  I rarely saw them just ears pinned back only worrying about pass rush.  They always seemed to have to keep some kind of  gap control and then go unless it was like 3rd and a million.  I think I've seen Carlos touch on this when he was upset one time but caught himself and didn't really expand on it.

We also really had the big 6 foot 6+, 280 lb DE under Marvin. Drafting guys like Lawson and Hubbard seem to be more the build of good pass rushers. Not that they're small guys by any means. (Hubbard is 6 foot 5).

Tall/big DE. Bigger/Slower LB that were run thumpers. That seemed to be mostly the mold they drafted for.

The NFL seems to be going to more mobile guys. Smaller and Faster.

(05-15-2019, 10:57 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: As much my initial feelings disliked the Wren pick. It would be nice to have a giant menace in the middle putting centers onto their asses. I could see Hubbard, Willis, or even free agent pick up Wynn playing the role as pass rushing DT along with Geno. But none sound as awesome as Wren working out as a draft pick and being able to harness his potential to frequently collapse the pocket along the interior with Geno.

Geno is like 30/31 too. He has probably 3 more elite years left. It doesn't hurt to roll the dice on a guy like Wren.

Late to the thread, guess Bfine didn't get on. Anyways, first our Linebackers have to shut down those dump offs and make Offenses think, then we can unleash the Krackens. We get Lawson and Glasgow back while players like Hubbard, Billings and Willis grow into their own and we should be back to one of the best in the league, let alone the AFC North.