(07-30-2020, 03:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: WTF?

There are some DEs that play every down and there are some that don't.



No goal posts have been moved.

The ability to shed blockers has nothing to do with the number of snaps played.  It is not either "one or the other".  It is possible for both to be true at the same time.

What is going on with this ambush over Bynes?  No one had even mentioned Bynes, then you and the Playa start attacking me about how I am admitting that I was wrong about Bynes when I had not even mentioned him.

I had no problem with us letting Vigil leave.  I am more excited about Pratt and our new draft picks than I was about Vigil.  But it seems that the people who are impressed with Bynes are actually more obsessed with hating Vigil.  It is impossible for me to mention Bynes without a people trashing Vigil.  

Sure. Then why did you use tackles per game to illustrate Vigil's superior block shedding? No attack. I just disagreed with your assertion and the stat YOU used to illustrate Vigil is much better at shedding blocks.

BLUF: Vigil played more snaps than Bynes last year because he was on a far worse team not because he was a better LB who was "much better" at shedding blocks.

(07-30-2020, 09:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know about PFF, but based just on production the most dramatic change over the second half of the season was the development of Pratt.  He barely played the first half of the season.  In the first 8 games he only played  101 snaps on defense (app 20%) and never more than 38% in any game.  Then in game #9 against Baltimore he played 50% of the defensive snaps.  After that game Preston Brown released.  Pratt saw a lot more action, but still did not play more than 68% of the snaps until the final 4 games where he played over 70% in 3 of them.  Here is how his season broke down


Game..snaps...tkl...solo..asst..blitz..TFL
1-4 ........ 25... 4..... 1..... 3..... 1..... 0
5-8 ........ 76...12.... 9..... 3..... 6..... 0
9-12.......148...22...14..... 8..... 7..... 0
13-16.....187...34...23.....11....14..... 4


He had 38 tackles and 0 TFL over the first 12 games, but 34 tackles and 4 TFL in the last 4.

Project that last quarter of the season over a full 16 games and you get 136 tackles and 16 tackle for loss.  That would be an awesome year from any of our LBs.  I know 4 games is a very small sample size, but those numbers were not just a fluke spike in production.  Instead you can track consistent improvement throughout the entire season.

As much asI like the rookie LBs coming in I believe Pratt is more likely to have a major impact on our defense than any of them.  In fact he is my predistion for "Break Out Player" this year.

Pratt is a sideline to sideline LB that I have a lot of confidence in that we have needed for the past 3 seasons.

(07-30-2020, 03:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure. Then why did you use tackles per game to illustrate Vigil's superior block shedding?

I already explained this.  I used games because I had forgotten that Bynes was not good enough to play every down like Vigil did. 

Since I am starting to have to repeat myself can we just drop this instead of running in circles?

I suppose the defense may not be giving their best effort late in a blowout or if you know you are unlikely to win because AJ Green isn't there or Andy Dalton. Still I think that I would agree that this is cause for concern and the coaching is a culprit. Even if you are taught perfect form in college, part of what coach does is motivate his players and hold them accountable. I remember Zimmer would be addressing missed tackles on the sidelines with players, even during strong defensive performances (like our win over New England where Brady didn't get a TD). He didn't scream at them or go crazy or anything, but he always took them aside. Every time. He never let it slide. And the players were better tacklers under him.

(07-30-2020, 04:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I already explained this.  I used games because I had forgotten that Bynes was not good enough to play every down like Vigil did. 

Since I am starting to have to repeat myself can we just drop this instead of running in circles?

Nah, you didn't forget, you were shown... but yeah, we can drop it. 

(07-29-2020, 04:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: According to ProFootballOutsiders the top three players in the league in missed tackles were

Jesse Bates.........24
Nick Vigil............23
Shawn Williams...22

I have a saying.  "When a player stinks look at the player.  When ALL the players stink look at the coaching."  

Tackling is a basic skill that all of these guys learned in college.  I don't know how it could be blamed on the coaches unless these guys were missing tackles because they were out of position and not getting good clean tackle attempts.

Need to practice tackling and have hard tackling practices as JSR said.

You don't just go from a sure tackler to a bad tackler like Bates did in one year for no good reason.

Taylor has said there will be tackling practices unlike last year. Makes me wonder how much say Lou had.