Time to trust "The Process"

[fredtoast]

We just have to have faith and trust Paul "The Process" Alexander.

In over 20 years as an O-line coach he has never had a a first or second round draft pick flop. So based in history both Cedric and Jake should develop into at least solid NFL starters.

We should also remember '09 when Paul's O-line featured....A second year undrafted free agent at center with zero NFL starts (Cook)...a second year undrafted free agent at guard with 6 career starts (Livings)... a journeyman OG who had been cut by the Panthers and was on his 3rd team in 3 years (Mathis)...a second year fourth round pick at OT with 6 career starts (Anthony Collins)...and a second year undrafted free agent with one career start at OT (Roland). They also had Bobbie williams and whitworth, but that team was coming off a 4 win season. No one expected them to sweep the division with that pile of scraps making up the O-line. But when you have a guru like Paul Alexander running the O-line anything is possible.

I have stated before that it would be scary if we lost both Whit and Zeitler. I have not changed my mind. But I just have to trust "The Process".

[CageTheBengal]

It's time for Alexander, Fisher, Ced and Bengals fans to face the music.

We are putting our faith in our first and second round pick (shocking.). There's no running from it so we can sit and moan all off-season or accept it and embrace whatever the season brings us. Something tells me it won't be as bad as everybody thinks. We might try to re-tool to a more athletic scheme.

If we miss the playoffs it won't be because of the offense it will be because the d-line isn't good enough. People are focusing all of their attention on the o-line but we are essentially handing the NT job to an unproven rookie coming off of a major injury (just like Ced.) and Pat Sims.

[samhain]

I sort of agree because it's what's going to happen and we have little choice. I still intensely dislike the process that led them to this outcome, i.e. "we don't pay guards" and not extending Whitworth to make him a Bengal for the rest of his career. I also still believe that they are not only facing a talent regression at the tackle position, but also major durability concerns with all 3 players currently on the roster (Ogbuehi, Fisher, Winston). I think not signing a capable veteran backup is a huge risk that they will pay for at some point. Winston does not seem like a player that can play 4 quarters every Sunday if one of the starters gets hurt or just plain fails.

Outside of that, I think it's what we have to look forward to. Draft early to bolster the defense with youth and see what happens. Worst case scenario we lose 10 or 12 games and have a really good shot at getting the best OT in the 2018 draft. Hopefully that guy is a little better than what 2017 has to offer.

[grampahol]

Pretty obvious that there isn't going to be any big name FA signings this year so we might as well just sit back and see how our guys will play out..
I have a hunch we'll be seeing the team collect draft picks like never before, but who knows? 
You know we're going to get the ever popular compensation picks next year for Witt and Z. yey..
There's also still the possibility of a MickyC trade somewhere down the road. There's even a possibility of trading him for draft picks and signing someone like that noodle arm from Chicago as a backup although I doubt it.. 
I bet you're all looking forward to Hobson telling us what a FANTASTIC backup QB Driskel is destined to be.  Why, he's backup QB HOF material!   

[BengalChris]

This is the kind of front office thinking that this team has had for 26 years and "the process" has produced zero championships, zero playoff wins.

So what I trust is that the process will yield yet another zero in the playoff department.

[impactplaya]

The only part of this process that concerns me is if Zampese can actually make this offense a force again
I'm not worried about Alexander cause his track record of developing olinemen Is pretty good especially LT.
The defense should be faster this season and with Iloka and Williams having a year to gel is a bonus
This season will live and die with the offense
This draft needs to produce legitimate perimeter under neath threat to hold the safeties and lbs.

[CageTheBengal]

(03-12-2017, 01:52 PM)BengalChris Wrote: This is the kind of front office thinking that this team has had for 26 years and "the process" has produced zero championships, zero playoff wins.

So what I trust is that the process will yield yet another zero in the playoff department.

 


26 years?

The Bengals have changed the way the approach building a team since then.

[RunKijanaRun]

What does Joel Embiid have to do with any of this?

[muskiesfan]

I obviously have much less faith than you in Alexander the Great, but there is no other option than to sit back and hope for the best. I'm more concerned with LT than RT, but the Bengals aren't going to go after anyone that greatly improves either area any way. Have to protect those comp picks. An Andre Smith reunion may not be a bad thing, but at this point I think I'd rather roll with what we have. If it blows up on our face, hopefully we move on from the players and the coach and start to rebuild the OLine.

[McC]

I would call it living with the process because, really, what the hell choice do we have? Trusting it is too much of a stretch because I see last year as evidence the process sux.

[RunKijanaRun]

(03-12-2017, 01:56 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote:  


26 years?

The Bengals have changed the way the approach building a team since then.

Can't argue with the results...

[yellowxdiscipline]

If Fisher and Ogbeuhi don't pan out than Paul needs to be fired. These were clearly his picks and he's failing to develop them into starting caliber players.

[BengalChris]

(03-12-2017, 01:56 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote:  


26 years?

The Bengals have changed the way the approach building a team since then.

Same owner same results.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Is Lewis on his fifth three year plan or his third five year plan? If the Bengals followed your advice we would still be stuck with Bratkowski and Breshnehan. The Bengals have been cutting bait for 26 years and counting under Mike Brown. It's past time to finally start fishin'.

Trust the process. LMFAO. My brother, Mom, Dad, Step Dad, and grandparents have all died while trusting the process. I'm next. Meanwhile, you and I both have accumulated more ex-wives (one each) than Mike Brown has accumulated play off wins (zero).

[*ochocincos*]

As others have said, there's nothing we as fans can do besides just go along with it at this point.

All I can wish for is that the Bengals will, for once, invest a Day 2 pick in a center for once. Not that I expect it to happen this year, but at some point, it would be nice to see.

If the Bengals are not willing to invest much in a guard, they should at least invest in C to solidify the middle. You'd think that would be a priority in a division that has massive 3-4 NTs that get push up the middle.

[JumboTron]

(03-12-2017, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We just have to have faith and trust Paul "The Process" Alexander.

In over 20 years as an O-line coach he has never had a a first or second round draft pick flop. So based in history both Cedric and Jake should develop into at least solid NFL starters.

We should also remember '09 when Paul's O-line featured....A second year undrafted free agent at center with zero NFL starts (Cook)...a second year undrafted free agent at guard with 6 career starts (Livings)... a journeyman OG who had been cut by the Panthers and was on his 3rd team in 3 years (Mathis)...a second year fourth round pick at OT with 6 career starts (Anthony Collins)...and a second year undrafted free agent with one career start at OT (Roland). They also had Bobbie williams and whitworth, but that team was coming off a 4 win season. No one expected them to sweep the division with that pile of scraps making up the O-line. But when you have a guru like Paul Alexander running the O-line anything is possible.

I have stated before that it would be scary if we lost both Whit and Zeitler.  I have not changed my mind.  But I just have to trust "The Process".

Hey fred, which High School Coaching Clinics will PA be speaking at this year?

[Shake n Blake]

Well I do know one thing...they can't get much worse than last year. We focused on running the ball (9th in attempts) but were terrible at it (23rd in YPC). Meanwhile we were 20th in pass attempts, but gave up the 7th most sacks. The guru coached the worst unit on the team last year, and it wasn't close.

Fwiw, here's his ranking year by year:

2016:
Pass Attempts- 20th
Sacks- 7th most
Rush Attempts- 9th
Rush YPC- 23rd

2015:
Pass Attempts- 26th
Sacks- 23rd most
Rush Attempts- 7th
Rush YPC- 23rd

2014:
Pass Attempts- 25th
Sacks- 30th most
Rush Attempts- 5th
Rush YPC- 12th

2013:
Pass Attempts- 12th
Sacks- 30th most
Rush Attempts- 8th
Rush YPC- 28th

2012:
Pass Attempts- 19th
Sacks- 7th most
Rush Attempts- 17th
Rush YPC- 20th

2011:
Pass Attempts- 20th
Sacks- 28th most
Rush Attempts- 10th
Rush YPC- 27th

2010:
Pass Attempts- 5th
Sacks- 24th most
Rush Attempts- 15th
Rush YPC- 32nd

2009:
Pass Attempts- 27th
Sacks- 24th most
Rush Attempts- 4th
Rush YPC- 24th

2008:
Pass Attempts- 16th
Sacks- 3rd most
Rush Attempts- 21st
Rush YPC- 30th

2007:
Pass Attempts- 8th
Sacks- 31st most
Rush Attempts- 23rd
Rush YPC- 28th

2006:
Pass Attempts- 14th
Sacks- 14th
Rush Attempts- 20th
Rush YPC- 25th
_______________________________

Average rankings:
Pass attempts- 17th
Sacks allowed- 20th most
Rush attempts- 13th
Rush YPC- 25th

So to sum it up, we've generally been more of a run first team, but we're consistently terrible at running the ball. The average sacks allowed (20th most) would be more impressive if the Bengals weren't such a run first team. I mean..is 17th in pass attempts and 20th in sacks allowed really that impressive? As for the narrative that Paul has whipped up solid lines out of scraps, when did this happen? The line was lacking in 2008 and 2016. We saw the results. 2009 was a bad year as well. We had to use an extra tackle and unbalanced lines just to rank 24th in YPC and the only reason we limited sacks is because we didn't pass (27th in attempts).

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-12-2017, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: We just have to have faith and trust Paul "The Process" Alexander.

In over 20 years as an O-line coach he has never had a a first or second round draft pick flop. So based in history both Cedric and Jake should develop into at least solid NFL starters.

We should also remember '09 when Paul's O-line featured....A second year undrafted free agent at center with zero NFL starts (Cook)...a second year undrafted free agent at guard with 6 career starts (Livings)... a journeyman OG who had been cut by the Panthers and was on his 3rd team in 3 years (Mathis)...a second year fourth round pick at OT with 6 career starts (Anthony Collins)...and a second year undrafted free agent with one career start at OT (Roland). They also had Bobbie williams and whitworth, but that team was coming off a 4 win season. No one expected them to sweep the division with that pile of scraps making up the O-line. But when you have a guru like Paul Alexander running the O-line anything is possible.

I have stated before that it would be scary if we lost both Whit and Zeitler.  I have not changed my mind.  But I just have to trust "The Process".

This is like trusting the government.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-12-2017, 01:39 PM)samhain Wrote: I sort of agree because it's what's going to happen and we have little choice.  I still intensely dislike the process that led them to this outcome, i.e. "we don't pay guards" and not extending  Whitworth to make him a Bengal for the rest of his career.  I also still believe that they are not only facing a talent regression at the tackle position, but also major durability concerns with all 3 players currently on the roster (Ogbuehi, Fisher, Winston).  I think not signing a capable veteran backup is a huge risk that they will pay for at some point.  Winston does not seem like a player that can play 4 quarters every Sunday if one of the starters gets hurt or just plain fails.

Outside of that, I think it's what we have to look forward to.  Draft early to bolster the defense with youth and see what happens.  Worst case scenario we lose 10 or 12 games and have a really good shot at getting the best OT in the 2018 draft.  Hopefully that guy is a little better than what 2017 has to offer.

Normally, I would be okay with a patient/casual approach like this, but Atkins, Dunlap, Dalton and Green etc are all approaching 30.

We're wasting this core of talented players.

(03-12-2017, 01:56 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote:  


26 years?

The Bengals have changed the way the approach building a team since then.

Have they really? I was around back then. They have always avoided free agents. They have always tried to build exclusively through the draft. They just got lucky and got some hits recently. That changed the view of their approach from "they're being cheap" to "they're being smart". Once they start collecting more losing seasons, the perception will change again.

[CageTheBengal]

(03-12-2017, 02:27 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Same owner same results.

We were talking about the process not the owner.

(03-12-2017, 03:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Have they really? I was around back then. They have always avoided free agents. They have always tried to build exclusively through the draft. They just got lucky and got some hits recently. That changed the view of their approach from "they're being cheap" to "they're being smart". Once they start collecting more losing seasons, the perception will change again.

Just the fact that we have Tobin shows it's different the only reason he isn't a GM is because of the lack of title.  I thought part of what Marvin did and what people give him credit for was changing the culture around the organization from miserable to stable. Just because the organization hasn't changed in one aspect doesn't mean they haven't changed their approach in other ways in 26 years.

Something had to have changed from the 90's the gradual improvement just doesn't fall into your lap magically.