03-12-2017, 03:23 PM
Trust the process?
F*** this process
F*** this process
Time to trust "The Process"
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03-12-2017, 03:23 PM
Trust the process?
F*** this process
03-12-2017, 03:33 PM
(03-12-2017, 03:18 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: We were talking about the process not the owner. I don't think Mike's philosophy to team building has changed much if at all. Tobin was a great hire back in 1999, but sometimes I think his "GM" status is a bit overstated. I'm sure he has a lot of input, but Mike is still the one pulling the strings. I think the hiring of Tobin as well as Marv has greatly improved the eye for talent within the organization, but I believe they're hamstrung by Mike. Just going off my gut and from what I've seen, but I'm betting that there's moves that Tobin and Marv would probably like to make, but don't even run by Mike because they know what the answer would be. The extreme love for compensatory picks reeks of Mike as well.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
03-12-2017, 03:38 PM
(03-12-2017, 03:18 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: We were talking about the process not the owner. It's the owner's process, or at the very least, one held in place by him. Mikey Brown really doesn't follow a process. He's suppose to be resigning our own, but he only does that if they accept his low ball offers.
03-12-2017, 03:39 PM
(03-12-2017, 03:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't think Mike's philosophy to team building has changed much if at all. Tobin was a great hire back in 1999, but sometimes I think his "GM" status is a bit overstated. I'm sure he has a lot of input, but Mike is still the one pulling the strings. I think the hiring of Tobin as well as Marv has greatly improved the eye for talent within the organization, but I believe they're hamstrung by Mike. Exactly!
03-12-2017, 03:53 PM
(03-12-2017, 03:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't think Mike's philosophy to team building has changed much if at all. Tobin was a great hire back in 1999, but sometimes I think his "GM" status is a bit overstated. I'm sure he has a lot of input, but Mike is still the one pulling the strings. I think the hiring of Tobin as well as Marv has greatly improved the eye for talent within the organization, but I believe they're hamstrung by Mike. The whole thing has a bit of mystery to it because the Bengals are run in a more unorthodox way compared to most teams and they're also so hush hush about everything so I think all of us are swinging blind some when we are talking about how the front office is run but I think fans need to adjust their perspective a little bit on how the organization is run now. While I think Mike is still involved I also think he has taken a step back more and more over the last 4-5 years. In what ways? I don't know he may still be heavily involved in the Bengals approach to FA and comp picks but Katie, Tobin and Marvin I think run the show too and that's partially why they give Marvin so much slack because of how deeply he is embedded in the structure of the front office and it's gonna shake things up more here compared to a team with a more traditional front office structure if he was fired. That's just my opinion but I've read 2 or 3 articles like this over the past few years that have swayed my opinion. Quote:Paul and Mike Brown have maintained such a stranglehold on the decision making within the Bengals organization through the team's 47 year existence. In recent years, Mike Brown has discussed allowing the team to be run more and more by his daughter, Katie Blackburn. However, one thing that he has only recently discussed is how much he's delegated personnel decisions to Duke Tobin. http://www.cincyjungle.com/2016/2/24/11099216/duke-tobin-doesnt-need-gm-title-to-know-his-worth-with-bengals
03-12-2017, 04:03 PM
Reminds me of the Phillies back when they had Mitch Williams. A common phrase was "We live by the Wild Thing, and we die by the Wild Thing".
Well, so far, we have died with Bodine and Ced, and I will be positively floored if they suddenly (not that sudden, as Bodine is in year 4, Ced year 3) gain massive strength and learn how to be at least solid contributors. There will be a lot of players on the defense watching this very closely and will likely not want to be here if this fails....or should I say, fails again.
03-12-2017, 04:07 PM
(03-12-2017, 03:53 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: The whole thing has a bit of mystery to it because the Bengals are run in a more unorthodox way compared to most teams and they're also so hush hush about everything so I think all of us are swinging blind some when we are talking about how the front office is run but I think fans need to adjust their perspective a little bit on how the organization is run now. While I think Mike is still involved I also think he has taken a step back more and more over the last 4-5 years. In what ways? I don't know he may still be heavily involved in the Bengals approach to FA and comp picks but Katie, Tobin and Marvin I think run the show too and that's partially why they give Marvin so much slack because of how deeply he is embedded in the structure of the front office and it's gonna shake things up more here compared to a team with a more traditional front office structure if he was fired. That's just my opinion but I've read 2 or 3 articles like this over the past few years that have swayed my opinion. One thing we can agree on is that the Bengals are extremely guarded and shrouded in mystery. All we can do is make semi-educated guesses. I've read a few articles like this on Tobin, and while I believe that he has a big say on the players we have on the roster (I think Marv and various coaches do as well), I think he has to add these players within Mike Brown's framework. As in...no big FA additions, nothing that hurts compensatory picks, he has a set amount of money to work with each offseason (which is never much), and I'm sure Mike provides input on players he'd like to keep around.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
03-12-2017, 04:14 PM
(03-12-2017, 04:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: One thing we can agree on is that the Bengals are extremely guarded and shrouded in mystery. All we can do is make semi-educated guesses. I've read a few articles like this on Tobin, and while I believe that he has a big say on the players we have on the roster (I think Marv and various coaches do as well), I think he has to add these players within Mike Brown's framework. As in...no big FA additions, nothing that hurts compensatory picks, he has a set amount of money to work with each offseason (which is never much), and I'm sure Mike provides input on players he'd like to keep around. I think all of that could be true especially if it's consistent with the 90s or even scarier if Katie learned from ole Mike. The comp pick idea is pretty flawed especially since there isn't a known set of rules on how they are given out. We are just gonna hope our FAs give us 3rd round picks.
03-12-2017, 04:14 PM
(03-12-2017, 03:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Just going off my gut and from what I've seen, but I'm betting that there's moves that Tobin and Marv would probably like to make, but don't even run by Mike because they know what the answer would be. The extreme love for compensatory picks reeks of Mike as well. As Marvin said in his interview with WCPO, when it comes to making decisions, Mike still has 2 votes to his 1.
03-12-2017, 04:20 PM
I used to think MB was taking a step back, after letting Whit walk i don't know about it.
To stick with our weaknesses sure is idiotic and if this is "The Process" they better look at how this has turned out so far. Bodine and Og have been epic failures so far and they want to ride this shit train? Like i said in another thread, this is quite the gamble. Going all in on a seven two offsuit is suicide.
03-12-2017, 04:26 PM
(03-12-2017, 04:14 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I think all of that could be true especially if it's consistent with the 90s or even scarier if Katie learned from ole Mike. Man, I'm not a fan of the NFL comp pick system in general. As far as what picks we'll get next year, we should get a 3rd rounder for Zeitler, a 5th for Whit and maybe a 6th for Peko. That's assuming that if we sign any FA's, they'll be released or bargain bin type guys.
03-12-2017, 04:26 PM
(03-12-2017, 04:14 PM)CageTheBengal Wrote: I think all of that could be true especially if it's consistent with the 90s or even scarier if Katie learned from ole Mike. I only hope that Katie will be more willing to do some things Mike has not been "keen" on. Such as expanding the personnel and scouting departments to normal NFL levels, building a practice facility, and maybe an occasional real foray into FA. I don't expect any huge changes in philosophy with her though. I like picking up compensatory picks...I just don't think mystery picks in the 3rd through 7th rounds should take priority over shoring up a glaring weakness via FA. (03-12-2017, 04:14 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: As Marvin said in his interview with WCPO, when it comes to making decisions, Mike still has 2 votes to his 1. That's a small statement that says a lot.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
03-12-2017, 04:34 PM
(03-12-2017, 04:14 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: As Marvin said in his interview with WCPO, when it comes to making decisions, Mike still has 2 votes to his 1. Makes it a little bit harder to judge Marv. Especially if he has no say over who his OL coach is. Sounds like he has his hands tied behind his back.
03-12-2017, 04:42 PM
(03-12-2017, 04:26 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Man, I'm not a fan of the NFL comp pick system in general. I enjoyed it more when our roster was filled out and it felt more like a bonus rather than a way to build your team. Even a third round pick is on the back end of the round and could be behind 4 other teams. So while it's nice when you miss out on a player it's crazy imo to act like it justifies letting a player walk and I hope that's not what the Bengals are telling themselves. Zeitlers case is exactly the type of scenario I like getting comp picks though. Considering the Bengals were never gonna pay him the type of money Cleveland did it's better than nothing. (03-12-2017, 04:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I only hope that Katie will be more willing to do some things Mike has not been "keen" on. Such as expanding the personnel and scouting departments to normal NFL levels, building a practice facility, and maybe an occasional real foray into FA. I don't expect any huge changes in philosophy with her though. I think all of us are clinging on to that hope that Katie will overturn some of the longstanding Mike Brown traditions. Like you said I don't expect an overhaul but it has to be obvious to her there is a better way to run the team. Agreed about the comp picks they aren't so valuable that you pursue them when you are picking #9 in the draft. It takes time for picks to develop and we need to get better now.
03-12-2017, 04:44 PM
So we're supposed to trust, cheer, and defend even though we ALL know the end result....Failure?
Somewhere MB and co are toasting you Fred. Quote:"Success doesn’t mean every single move they make is good" ~ Anonymous
03-12-2017, 06:36 PM
03-12-2017, 06:38 PM
(03-12-2017, 04:44 PM)jj22 Wrote: So we're supposed to trust, cheer, and defend even though we ALL know the end result....Failure? You don't know the result. You could be like all the Bronco fans who "knew" that Elwat could never win a Super Bowl. In fact just a few years ago most of you "knew" that the Bengals would never be a consistant playoff team under Marvin Lewis.
03-12-2017, 06:49 PM
(03-12-2017, 04:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Makes it a little bit harder to judge Marv. It's still really really easy to judge Marv. Horrible vs Steelers record. Horrible prime time record. 0-7 Postseason record. One of the worst game managers around. "Halftime adjustments are just journalistic jargon." ____________________________________________________________
03-12-2017, 07:15 PM
(03-12-2017, 04:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: One thing we can agree on is that the Bengals are extremely guarded and shrouded in mystery. All we can do is make semi-educated guesses. I've read a few articles like this on Tobin, and while I believe that he has a big say on the players we have on the roster (I think Marv and various coaches do as well), I think he has to add these players within Mike Brown's framework. As in...no big FA additions, nothing that hurts compensatory picks, he has a set amount of money to work with each offseason (which is never much), and I'm sure Mike provides input on players he'd like to keep around. This is how I picture it too. And really, if you control the purse strings, you are in charge.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
http://www.reverbnation.com/leftyohio singersongwriterrocknroll
03-12-2017, 07:24 PM
(03-12-2017, 04:34 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Makes it a little bit harder to judge Marv. Absolutely! You think Marvin wanted to keep the Piano Man around in 2003? I promise you he was allowed to bring in his coordinators but not his position coaches. Paul Alexander and Jim Anderson weren't going anywhere. |
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