Comparing Front Office Sizes in the AFC North

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-25-2017, 05:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Everyone remember just two years ago when so many of you were claiming that Marvin could not win with "the most talented roster in the league".

Seems like some of those exact same people are now claiming that our front office and scouting department are unable to find any talent.

Because we are speculating as to why the teams look like shit in the playoffs.  As you are presented with new information, your views may change......or....you know.....it could actually be a combination of things.

It could be that the staff is unprepared because they are augmenting duties that a larger scouting/personnel department would be handling.  It could be that a weakness that gets exposed by better teams, albeit with an already talented roster, could have been strengthened via FA, but the FO sat mum.  Or, it could be that the FO is retaining an inept staff.  Either way, the responsibility lies at the feet of management.....in ANY business.

[grampahol]

(04-25-2017, 12:52 AM)PikesPeakUC Wrote: I have a huge front office.






Sorry. I had to make the joke.

And sharpen your own pencils.. I don't know where that's going so I'll leave it alone..


Look, I still contend that football is nothing more than just another part of the entertainment industry. Their real goal, whether anyone wants to acknowledge that or not is to be profitable and from every standard of business they're very successful. 
The problem is nobody packs into stadiums to see companies be profitable. How many people do you suppose would tune in to television to watch the profit and loss sheets of a company? There's probably a few, but not many. 
Being a fan (fanatic) is a whole different ball of wax. The only thing fans care about are winning vs losing and we have zero control over any of it other than whether we decide to watch and follow or not. 
What I find the most ridiculous is how a team, any team can actually make a profit by only opening their doors 8 days per year and yet the NFL manages to turn such huge profits doing just that. 
Try to imagine Kroger for example remaining profitable if their stores were only open 8 days a year and only on Sundays and occasionally Monday and Thursday..and by the way,  you as a tax payer have to pay for the store to be there..  
Now Browns fans are an entity of their own. Not only are they profitable, they lose on a regular basis. Imagine Kroger being open only 8 days a year and only selling products nobody wants to buy and still turning a profit.. It boggles the mind.  

[OrlandoBengal]

(04-27-2017, 08:44 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The same way Pistons and everyone else knows that we have had the smallest front office for the last 26 years.

Funny how claims about the Bengals are never questioned when they are part of a group of haters having a whine fest.

Pistons actually gave the current number of front office staff for the AFC North.  There was no speculation at all.  The Bengals are known for having an extremely small staff under Mike Brown.  You claimed the same was true when Paul Brown ran the team and I asked how you know that.  It's pretty obvious you don't, and were just arguing to take a different side.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-27-2017, 02:05 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Pistons actually gave the current number of front office staff for the AFC North.  There was no speculation at all.  The Bengals are known for having an extremely small staff under Mike Brown.  You claimed the same was true when Paul Brown ran the team and I asked how you know that.  It's pretty obvious you don't, and were just arguing to take a different side.

While it MAY be true that the Bengals employed a small staff back then as well.....THAT staff was led by a football legend and master of the game.  As I said elsewhere, an outlier if there ever was one.....

[OrlandoBengal]

(04-27-2017, 02:09 PM)Wyche Wrote: While it MAY be true that the Bengals employed a small staff back then as well.....THAT staff was led by a football legend and master of the game.  As I said elsewhere, an outlier if there ever was one.....

I pointed that earlier as well.  The team being led by Paul Brown, and having guys like Bill Walsh on the staff, would make up for a lot of deficiencies. 

[THE PISTONS]

(04-27-2017, 02:05 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Pistons actually gave the current number of front office staff for the AFC North.  There was no speculation at all.  The Bengals are known for having an extremely small staff under Mike Brown.  You claimed the same was true when Paul Brown ran the team and I asked how you know that.  It's pretty obvious you don't, and were just arguing to take a different side.

Indeed. My post has links to the teams webpage that contains this information.

[THE PISTONS]

The Atlanta Falcons did great this last year plugging young players and free agents in and made it to the Super Bowl. Luck you say? They have 17 scouts alone in addition to numerous other front office positions.

Here is their Scouting and Front Office Personnel:

Thomas Dimitroff General Manager

Football Operations
NAME POSITION
Scott Pioli Assistant General Manager
Nick Polk Director, Football Operations
Kevin Winston Senior Director of Player Affairs
Brynlee Forik Player Affairs Coordinator
Karl Pierburg Senior Director of Football Systems
Jessica Dietrich Football Systems Lead Developer
Chase Falivene Salary Cap/Player Personnel Assistant
Todd Nielson Football Research and Development
Steven Scarnecchia Assistant to the Head Coach
John Taormina Football Data Analysis Seasonal Assistant

Scouting
NAME POSITION
Joel Collier Director of Pro Personnel
Steve Sabo Director of College Scouting
Phil Emery National Scout
Ruston Webster National Scout
Shepley Heard Regional Scout
Russ Bolinger National Scout
Sae Woon Jo Area Scout
Tokunbo Abanikanda Area Scout
Anthony Robinson Regional Scout
Kevin Simon Pro Scout
Bob Kronenberg Area Scout
Michael Ross Area Scout
James Bodenheimer Area Scout
Rodrik David Scouting Assistant
Richard Sanders Scouting Assistant
Bailey Swyden Scouting Coordinator
Katie Sowers Scouting Intern

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/staff.html

[THE PISTONS]

Here's a fun one. Bengals Player Personnel Department vs Ticket Sales Department Size:

Bengals Player Personnel Department
PLAYER PERSONNEL
Duke Tobin Director of Player Personnel
Mike Potts
Steven Radicevic
Bill Tobin Personnel Executives
Geoff Smith Scouting Technology Consultant
John Cooper Scouting Consultant
Andrew Johnson Scouting Assistant
Debbie LaRocco Personnel Assistant

VS

TICKETS
Tim Kelly Director of Ticket Operations
Duane Haring Director of Ticket Sales and Service
Andrew Brown Director of Sales Analytics
Matt Ritchie Manager of Inside Sales
Katharina Hiergeist Manager of Season Ticket Member Services
Zoe Bodart
Tim Schmidt
Matt Sierzputowski Account Managers, Season Ticket Member Services
Mark Bloom Senior Account Executive, Season Ticket Sales
Jimmy Hermann
Andreas Koyfis
Kyle Seyfried
Kostas Koyfis
Joe Toth
Amelia Wiggins Account Executives, Season Ticket Sales
Matt Ingram Senior Account Executive & Team Lead, Group Sales
Sean Fleming Account Executive, Group Sales
Barry Katz
Joe Hearn
Bob Mullen
Ticket Operations
Keith Benjamin
Stephen Brown
Tyler Kelly
Zach LeCompte
Alexa Lingg
Austin MacEachen
Matt Peccia Sales Consultants

SALES / MARKETING/ BROADCASTING
Brian Sells Vice President - Chief Marketing Officer
Ryan Holmes Director of Corporate Sales
Tom Severino
Matt Sikich Senior Corporate Sales Managers
Andrew Durbin
Corporate Sales Manager
Jamie Berkley Director of Partnership Activation
Madison Fennell Partnership Activation Manager
Haley Jones
Samantha Priefer
Partnership Activation Coordinators
T.J. Wagner Senior Suite Sales Manager
Alex Simons Suite Services Manager

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-27-2017, 03:10 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Here's a fun one. Bengals Player Personnel Department vs Ticket Sales Department Size:

Bengals Player Personnel Department
PLAYER PERSONNEL
Duke Tobin Director of Player Personnel
Mike Potts
Steven Radicevic
Bill Tobin Personnel Executives
Geoff Smith Scouting Technology Consultant
John Cooper Scouting Consultant
Andrew Johnson Scouting Assistant
Debbie LaRocco Personnel Assistant

VS

TICKETS
Tim Kelly Director of Ticket Operations
Duane Haring Director of Ticket Sales and Service
Andrew Brown Director of Sales Analytics
Matt Ritchie Manager of Inside Sales
Katharina Hiergeist Manager of Season Ticket Member Services
Zoe Bodart
Tim Schmidt
Matt Sierzputowski Account Managers, Season Ticket Member Services
Mark Bloom Senior Account Executive, Season Ticket Sales
Jimmy Hermann
Andreas Koyfis
Kyle Seyfried
Kostas Koyfis
Joe Toth
Amelia Wiggins Account Executives, Season Ticket Sales
Matt Ingram Senior Account Executive & Team Lead, Group Sales
Sean Fleming Account Executive, Group Sales
Barry Katz
Joe Hearn
Bob Mullen
Ticket Operations
Keith Benjamin
Stephen Brown
Tyler Kelly
Zach LeCompte
Alexa Lingg
Austin MacEachen
Matt Peccia Sales Consultants

SALES / MARKETING/ BROADCASTING
Brian Sells Vice President - Chief Marketing Officer
Ryan Holmes Director of Corporate Sales
Tom Severino
Matt Sikich Senior Corporate Sales Managers
Andrew Durbin
Corporate Sales Manager
Jamie Berkley Director of Partnership Activation
Madison Fennell Partnership Activation Manager
Haley Jones
Samantha Priefer
Partnership Activation Coordinators
T.J. Wagner Senior Suite Sales Manager
Alex Simons Suite Services Manager

Not   at all......

[THE PISTONS]

Hey...since 1996 we're the 28th best drafting team. Maybe we have too many scouts after all!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/sports/nfl-draft-values/?utm_term=.90f08f655ff6

[THE PISTONS]

Notice too that we had 4 good drafts in a row...the last was 5 years ago. The past 4 drafts have been underwhelming...unless you consider Bodine and Hill as quality starters.

[fredtoast]

(04-27-2017, 02:05 PM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Pistons actually gave the current number of front office staff for the AFC North.  There was no speculation at all.

WTF?

So when they said the small fron office was the reason that we had not wona playoff game in 26 years thy were only talking about the front office NOW?

How in the hell does having a small front office NOW effect wha the team did 26 years ago?

[fredtoast]

(04-27-2017, 03:05 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Atlanta Falcons did great this last year plugging young players and free agents in and made it to the Super Bowl. Luck you say? They have 17 scouts alone in addition to numerous other front office positions.

Yeah, I say it is luck.  If it was just because they had a lot of scouts they would not have sucked so bad for the last few years.

[fredtoast]

(04-27-2017, 04:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Notice too that we had 4 good drafts in a row...the last was 5 years ago. The past 4 drafts have been underwhelming...unless you consider Bodine and Hill as quality starters.

Can't judge a draft class properly after just one year.

In '01 we drafted three future pro bowlers (Chad, Rudi, TJ) and none of them did much of anything as a rookie.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-27-2017, 06:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, I say it is luck.  If it was just because they had a lot of scouts they would not have sucked so bad for the last few years.

Meh....the Dirty Birds have been to two Super Bowls since Son of Paul started this fiasco.....he's yet to win a playoff game.

[THE PISTONS]

And I hear that our coaches scout...but how can coaches scout college games in person during the season...while they play games themselves on Sunday?!?!?

[*PhilHos*]

(09-20-2017, 11:22 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And I hear that our coaches scout...but how can coaches scout college games in person during the season...while they play games themselves on Sunday?!?!?

'Cause college games are on Saturday. Duh.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-20-2017, 11:24 AM)PhilHos Wrote: 'Cause college games are on Saturday. Duh.

Yeah...so you want your coaches flying out to college games across the country the day before a game?

Coaches should be gameplanning during this time and breaking down tape.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

how is the new scouting dept for browns working out. they are 1 - 17 in their last 18. Burfict undrafted free agent. Erickson undrafted free agent.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-20-2017, 11:57 AM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: how is the new scouting dept for browns working out. they are 1 - 17 in  their last 18. Burfict undrafted free agent. Erickson undrafted free agent.

The atleast we're not the Browns excuse.

Burfict was projected as a 1st Round pick...and slipped because of red flags. It's not like he was some unknown guy from a D2 school.

How have the Steelers and Ravens scouting departments worked out? Oh yeah...they WIN SUPERBOWLS.

The Bengals? 26+ years without a Super Bowl win.