Keeping Bill Lazor Is A Mistake

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-03-2018, 08:53 PM)McC Wrote: I see that as our best chance, if we can be the baddest running team in the league.  That way, when he goes into offensive and defensive prevent at halftime, we can run it down people's throats and still be able to score.

Exactly and it can happen now that we will have a new O-line coach that hopefully can coach run blocking well.

There is a reason when we run 30+ times we win.

We have a lead and are able to run it down the other teams throat.

This is also why i would like to bring in Del Rio on Defense so we can stop the run. Man, that was sad this year.

Don't like being ran on like that, don't bring back Paulie for this very reason.

[GodFather]

I agree with you but keeping Marvin was such a huge mistake every other decision doesn't matter at all. This team will go nowhere with him...so dont get sucked into it will be different this year because we XYZ...


It wont be...

[McC]

(01-03-2018, 08:57 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree,

I'm on the fence about Lazor considering the dumpster fire he came into.

I've been convinced for a long time one Paul Alexander has been instrumental in the failure of this team. I believe Mike Brown enabled him, put him in a position to run his own program within the team.

Allowed him to pick players and Paul's ego was to big to admit Bodine defeat. Mike gave him the asst. HC title and PA ran wild with it. His blocking schemes sucked and didn't fit with what they were doing. It's evident the piano mans dismissal was Marvin's sticking point on coming back.

I'm in no way taking up for Lewis ! But I think PA was a giant part of the problem here to. Will it make the difference in the end ?

We'll see

He was the reason Marvin could never run his system very well for most of his time here.  Marvin wants to run, run, run, run, play action.

They did catch lightning in a bottle with the '05 line but look how quickly that fell apart.  Since then , well...

[kevin]

(01-03-2018, 07:46 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Many people view him as a much bigger upgrade to that of Ken Zampese. And while in 2017 they actually scored TDs under Lazor rather than Zampese, Lazor still isn't a good coach.

These stats are from Josh Kirkendall, using numbers and references from Pro Football Reference



And here are the rushing yards and where they rank in the Bengals 50 year franchise



Under Bill Lazor, the offense didn't score a TD in the second half in 5 games.

They ranked 31st in the NFL in points in the second half with only 7.

Sure. There were positives in the run game and in the final two games. But let's not forget how terrible they were against the Bears and Vikings two weeks prior. Or how they couldn't score more than 3 points against Pittsburgh in the 2nd half.

Bill Lazor is not a good coordinator. Even with other teams.
With the Dolphins in 2015, his offense ranked 28th in points in the 2nd half.

Resigning him is not a good move.

I come on and say Lasor took over awful 0-2 team that tied 1930's Eagles as worst offense in NFL ever....Lasor came in and got 7-7 out of these sad sacks....Yesterday I had people on here telling me 7-7 is just a number. 7 wins is just a number some said....Then you throw these garbage can fulls of stats and numbers out as reasons to fire Lasor.......I say these are meaningless numbers....I'll stick with these numbers 7 and 1...Lasor got 7 wins out of these bums...and Lasor is back for 1 more year.....7 and 7 was .500 ball and he is back for 1 more year. .....and to those that didn't like me saying how Tony Rome doing our TV games was impressed by Lasor, to you I say, Tony Romo, Tony Romo, Tony Romo...I'll take this NFL quarterbacks opinion of Lasor over those who wanted him fired.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-03-2018, 08:57 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree,

I'm on the fence about Lazor considering the dumpster fire he came into.

I've been convinced for a long time one Paul Alexander has been instrumental in the failure of this team. I believe Mike Brown enabled him, put him in a position to run his own program within the team.

Allowed him to pick players and Paul's ego was to big to admit Bodine defeat. Mike gave him the asst. HC title and PA ran wild with it. His blocking schemes sucked and didn't fit with what they were doing. It's evident the piano mans dismissal was Marvin's sticking point on coming back.

I'm in no way taking up for Lewis ! But I think PA was a giant part of the problem here to. Will it make the difference in the end ?

We'll see

Yeah, who have we seen of more than Marv?

Paul Alexander, for like 25 years.

Lazor hasn't even got an entire season being an OC here and people are giving him crap and Wolf is one of my fave posters.

Just think he deserves the benefit of the doubt until he gets a chance. A whole Offseason to perfect his scheme and we will
know something. Zamp had a way better OL last year to work with than this one and had an Offseason. Dude was clearly
worse than Lazor if you consider these things.

It will get much better this year i am sure of it, we might be able to run the damn ball eh?

[Benton]

(01-03-2018, 08:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: His first year he was the QB coach and this year he came in as OC 3 games into the season running Zampese's scheme.

Give the guy a chance at OC for a full year in his own scheme before judging the guy.

I'm not super opposed to it (I think you know my first post in the thread was just sarcasm, I don't automatically hate the guy because Marvin seems to like him).

But I'm super thrilled either. I'll give him a chance, but the guy's second half scoring wasn't there. He changed up some things and we at least scored some, but either he or Marvin (and I'm leaning toward Marvin) didn't have a plan for after the break. Which is kind of typical of the team.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-03-2018, 09:10 PM)Benton Wrote: I'm not super opposed to it (I think you know my first post in the thread was just sarcasm, I don't automatically hate the guy because Marvin seems to like him).

But I'm super thrilled either. I'll give him a chance, but the guy's second half scoring wasn't there. He changed up some things and we at least scored some, but either he or Marvin (and I'm leaning toward Marvin) didn't have a plan for after the break. Which is kind of typical of the team.

I caught the sarcasm and completely understand your points.

Just saying it is not a coincidence that under Marv this has happened with all his Offensive Coordinators.

Maybe with a good run blocking O-line things will change and like McC said we can run it down teams throats
and minimize the 2nd half lack of production that we have consistently seen under Marvin Lewis.

[Steve]

(01-03-2018, 07:58 PM)Sweetness Wrote: I don't think any OC, QB, or RB would have a good year with that line. That said all of them can contribute to making it look better or worse. I would say the least amount of the responsibility would be on the RBs.

Let's also not forget Lazor didn't come into the season as the OC.

I agree....
the O-line was so bad it messed up the entire offense....

fix the O-line & we can be a top 5 offense....
that's why in rd #1 I would LOVE to get OG Nelson....he will make the pro bowl every yr he plays....can open holes on every run play....great as a pass blocker too....
but I bet he'll go in the top 8 picks....
then we'll pick OT McGlinchey at #12

[Steve]

(01-03-2018, 09:05 PM)GodFather Wrote: I agree with you but keeping Marvin was such a huge mistake every other decision doesn't matter at all. This team will go nowhere with him...so dont get sucked into it will be different this year because we XYZ...


It wont be...

you don't know this as fact...just like your opinion man....said the Dude....

the last 2 years we were crippled by a weak O-line....I don't care who the coach is....if your O-line sucks your team will suck.....
they never should of picked Ced & Fisher.....I guess Marvin had a hand in that call but.....I hope the war room learned a lesson.....& they stop picking weak OT's....
imo, if they would of brought in a new HC now it would of set the team back....
I say reload, fix the O-line & lets play more smash mouth like the past 2 games....

[GodFather]

(01-03-2018, 09:48 PM)Steve Wrote: you don't know this as fact...just like your opinion man....said the Dude....

the last 2 years we were crippled by a weak O-line....I don't care who the coach is....if your O-line sucks your team will suck.....
they never should of picked Ced & Fisher.....I guess Marvin had a hand in that call but.....I hope the war room learned a lesson.....& they stop picking weak OT's....
imo, if they would of brought in a new HC now it would of set the team back....
I say reload, fix the O-line & lets play more smash mouth like the past 2 games....

says the guy who is blind to the past 15 years....

[bengalhoel]

(01-03-2018, 08:03 PM)Benton Wrote: I was ok with giving him a shot... until Marvin seemed ok with giving him a shot. Now I think lazor must be an incompetent moron. Which sucks. He could be the best guy on the staff, but being endorsed by an idiot makes him questionable. And his ineffectiveness in the second half makes him waaaaay too much like Marvin for my liking.

Oh God. Does that mean that John Ross will have to sit another year to learn the new playbook?

[Shake n Blake]

(01-03-2018, 07:46 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Many people view him as a much bigger upgrade to that of Ken Zampese. And while in 2017 they actually scored TDs under Lazor rather than Zampese, Lazor still isn't a good coach.

These stats are from Josh Kirkendall, using numbers and references from Pro Football Reference



And here are the rushing yards and where they rank in the Bengals 50 year franchise



Under Bill Lazor, the offense didn't score a TD in the second half in 5 games.

They ranked 31st in the NFL in points in the second half with only 7.

Sure. There were positives in the run game and in the final two games. But let's not forget how terrible they were against the Bears and Vikings two weeks prior. Or how they couldn't score more than 3 points against Pittsburgh in the 2nd half.

Bill Lazor is not a good coordinator. Even with other teams.
With the Dolphins in 2015, his offense ranked 28th in points in the 2nd half.

Resigning him is not a good move.

That was the year Philbin got fired midseason, right? The Dolphins were a mess that year. A couple months ago, there was some debate as to whether or not the 2nd half issues were on Marv or Lazor...so I looked it up, and Lazor averaged more points in the 2nd half overall with the Dolphins. I can crunch those numbers again tomorrow if anyone is interested.

Throw me in the "meh" category on Lazor. It feels like we settled...much like with Zampese. I will say this...unlike Zampese, Lazor has had success as an OC. Namely 2014 in Miami...which is the only season you can fairly judge him on (too much drama and coach firings in 2015, didn't get to implement his offense in 2017).

Sadly, I think Merv will always have his hands in the offense, so expect some of the same issues regardless of who the OC is.

[J24]

If we improve our offensive line then we will have a pretty good offense if not we're screwed once again.

[bengalsturntup926]

(01-03-2018, 09:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Exactly and it can happen now that we will have a new O-line coach that hopefully can coach run blocking well.

There is a reason when we run 30+ times we win.

We have a lead and are able to run it down the other teams throat.

This is also why i would like to bring in Del Rio on Defense so we can stop the run. Man, that was sad this year.

Don't like being ran on like that, don't bring back Paulie for this very reason.

I do agree with you,I thought I seen a stat before that it's 25 carries for a back and we have a great record. And I do agree a elite run game would benefit a Marvin ran team. Except two things, lazor isn't known to be a smash mouth run down your throat coordinator he's known to get away from the run. 2 Marvin says we need to be better in the passing game.

[BonnieBengal]

(01-03-2018, 07:46 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Many people view him as a much bigger upgrade to that of Ken Zampese. And while in 2017 they actually scored TDs under Lazor rather than Zampese, Lazor still isn't a good coach.

These stats are from Josh Kirkendall, using numbers and references from Pro Football Reference



And here are the rushing yards and where they rank in the Bengals 50 year franchise



Under Bill Lazor, the offense didn't score a TD in the second half in 5 games.

They ranked 31st in the NFL in points in the second half with only 7.

Sure. There were positives in the run game and in the final two games. But let's not forget how terrible they were against the Bears and Vikings two weeks prior. Or how they couldn't score more than 3 points against Pittsburgh in the 2nd half.

Bill Lazor is not a good coordinator. Even with other teams.
With the Dolphins in 2015, his offense ranked 28th in points in the 2nd half.

Resigning him is not a good move.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until we rebuild our O Line.   

[BengalsBong]

Zamp had two off seasons to install some plays into the playbook and to get the team working together and two preseason to practice. Lazor has not had an offseason or a preseason yet.

[sonofstat]

For most of the season it felt like Lazor was constrained in his playcalling by 1) inheriting the previous playbook/scheme , and 2) inheriting a very poor OLine.

In the circumstances he did the sensible thing and kept it basic and tried to get the ball out of Andy's hand quicker but with teams not fearing the run or the deep ball threat there was only going to be limited time that was effective. 

He should really go bold this offseason....he'll never have more of a chance or mandate to make some significant changes.

[HarleyDog]

I will hold judgement until after next year. Bill did not have the offense until after training camp and the first 2 games had been played. It was not his offense and he was now left to deal with defeated attitudes and disgruntled players. There were a lot of issues when he was handed the job. He get's a pass from me for now.

[Bengalsrob]

(01-03-2018, 08:57 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree,

I'm on the fence about Lazor considering the dumpster fire he came into.

I've been convinced for a long time one Paul Alexander has been instrumental in the failure of this team. I believe Mike Brown enabled him, put him in a position to run his own program within the team.

Allowed him to pick players and Paul's ego was to big to admit Bodine defeat. Mike gave him the asst. HC title and PA ran wild with it. His blocking schemes sucked and didn't fit with what they were doing. It's evident the piano mans dismissal was Marvin's sticking point on coming back.

I'm in no way taking up for Lewis ! But I think PA was a giant part of the problem here to. Will it make the difference in the end ?

We'll see

HOPE is a terrible thing, and seen all too often around here, but it's all we got!!

[sonofstat]

(01-03-2018, 07:46 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Many people view him as a much bigger upgrade to that of Ken Zampese. And while in 2017 they actually scored TDs under Lazor rather than Zampese, Lazor still isn't a good coach.

These stats are from Josh Kirkendall, using numbers and references from Pro Football Reference



And here are the rushing yards and where they rank in the Bengals 50 year franchise



Under Bill Lazor, the offense didn't score a TD in the second half in 5 games.

They ranked 31st in the NFL in points in the second half with only 7.

Sure. There were positives in the run game and in the final two games. But let's not forget how terrible they were against the Bears and Vikings two weeks prior. Or how they couldn't score more than 3 points against Pittsburgh in the 2nd half.

Bill Lazor is not a good coordinator. Even with other teams.
With the Dolphins in 2015, his offense ranked 28th in points in the 2nd half.

Resigning him is not a good move.

I'm feeling more optimistic about Lazor especially bearing in mind what he said in the press conference.

However aside from the running game one thing I am slightly concerned about, or at least will be watching for is yards per pass play.

When you look at Dolphins in 14/15 and Bengals this year the yards per reception is really low.  

Like with most things this year I think Lazor gets a pass because the OLine meant we had to get rid of the ball quick but his offenses certainly don't look explosive.

But in 2014 he had Jarvis Landry and Mike Wallace as his WR1 & 2...and they average 9 and 12 yards per reception over the season.....

...bearing in mind his history I'm intrigued when he reacted to Marvin's comment in the presser about needing to 'throw the ball over people's heads' !!!