Keeping Bill Lazor Is A Mistake

[corpjet]

My concern bringing in a new one would be what Andy's 4th OC in 6 years?

If was Marvin I would have spoke to Andy about his comfort level with B Lazor, if he felt they could improve upon what they started this year and was confident in the system working I am ok with sticking with him for another year or two.

Obviously Andy is our QB going forward, you need him confident in the system and play calling and he seems to have that in B Lazor.

[Daddy-O]

So we're going to judge a guy thrust into a position to basically use someone else's playbook design and concepts.

Before jumping off the bridge let's at least give the guy a full offseason to put his own stamp on it. Good grief.

Just curious, can you provide a name of a successful OC who is currently unemployed and sitting by the phone waiting for another opportunity?

[740Bengal]

I disagree, I like keeping Lazor around. He definitely has the backing of the offensive players, and can actually move the football, I am real interested to see how he adds his own ebbs and flows to this offense. I look for Gio and Mixon to be utilized and hopefully the coming out party for John Ross, and anything Tyler Boyd can add will be a bonus. I also would not mind to continue to see Erickson utilized, reminds me alot of Burkhead as far as skill set in the slot, but we didn't know how to use him, and I knew from day 1 eventually he would end up in New England and McDaniels knew exactly how to grease the right wheels to get him going big time in the offense.

I mean come on folks! This is like trying to use someone else's playbook on a Madden online ranked game! Lol in all seriousness we gave Zampese a full season shake, surely we can give Lazor the same. Lazor is actually competent, I knew after watching Zampese his first game ever as an OC that he was not the guy and not to continuously toot my own horn, but I called it in a thread right after Zampese's lottery ticket lucky win over the Ravens, I mean that guy was terrible, nearly single handily gave the game to Baltimore, absolutely horrendous playcalling.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-03-2018, 08:07 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: You got to be kidding me??

You blame Marv for the 2nd halves of games and not Lazor???
So, I assume you give Lazor the credit for the 1st half of games???

You also give Lazor the credit for the change in blocking late in the year??

Wow, just wow.

Marvin Lewis coached teams have regularly been beat in the 2nd half, from the beginning on his tenure. This isn't something new with Lazor. I'm no mathematician but I'd venture to guess that the 5 OC's under him haven't all had 2nd halfatosis and the blame lies with the HC and his conservative philosophy.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Marvin-Lewis-2nd-half-scoring-stats

[Atomic Orange]

We need to run the Hurry up, that much is obvious. The running back by committee also hurt us. RB's need to get into a flow and it has to be tough on the line learning to block for each individual style.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-04-2018, 10:30 AM)740Bengal Wrote: I disagree, I like keeping Lazor around.  He definitely has the backing of the offensive players, and can actually move the football, I am real interested to see how he adds his own ebbs and flows to this offense.  I look for Gio and Mixon to be utilized and hopefully the coming out party for John Ross, and anything Tyler Boyd can add will be a bonus.  I also would not mind to continue to see Erickson utilized, reminds me alot of Burkhead as far as skill set in the slot, but we didn't know how to use him, and I knew from day 1 eventually he would end up in New England and McDaniels knew exactly how to grease the right wheels to get him going big time in the offense.

I mean come on folks!  This is like trying to use someone else's playbook on a Madden online ranked game!  Lol in all seriousness we gave Zampese a full season shake, surely we can give Lazor the same.  Lazor is actually competent, I knew after watching Zampese his first game ever as an OC that he was not the guy and not to continuously toot my own horn, but I called it in a thread right after Zampese's lottery ticket lucky win over the Ravens, I mean that guy was terrible, nearly single handily gave the game to Baltimore, absolutely horrendous playcalling.

If we're tooting horns, I called it the day it was announced Zampese was promoted.....if we're tooting horns.

[Okeana]

I have to agree with many of the posters on this one. He was put in the worse possible situation to come into and still outperformed zampese. With a training camp and new offensive scheme of his own design we will see even better results. I think its safe to say that EDIT RUSSELL Bodine is out with his coach getting the boot and his performance. I think drafting a new center now becomes the highest priority.

[grampahol]

I better check my messages and phone history to see how many times Mike Brown called to seek out my opinion about Lazor.. 

Yup, here is the entire illustrious story..
Calls from Mikey...

Messages from Mikey...


Now tell me you aren't envious..Just remember that coveting is one of the 7 deadly sins.  

[grampahol]

(01-04-2018, 12:20 PM)Okeana Wrote: I have to agree with many of the posters on this one.  He was put in the worse possible situation to come into and still outperformed zampese.  With a training camp and new offensive scheme of his own design we will see even better results.  I think its safe to say that Clint Bodine is out with his coach getting the boot and his performance.  I think drafting a new center now becomes the highest priority.

Boy! I'll sure be glad when they get rid of Clint Bodine..
Who is he by the way? 

[Okeana]

(01-04-2018, 12:35 PM)grampahol Wrote: Boy! I'll sure be glad when they get rid of Clint Bodine..
Who is he by the way? 

exactly he's so important I didn't even get his name right

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-04-2018, 10:32 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Marvin Lewis coached teams have regularly been beat in the 2nd half, from the beginning on his tenure. This isn't something new with Lazor. I'm no mathematician but I'd venture to guess that the 5 OC's under him haven't all had 2nd halfatosis and the blame lies with the HC and his conservative philosophy.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Marvin-Lewis-2nd-half-scoring-stats

All true, but i was a little out of line on my reply to Yankee.

I apologize to Bengal Yankee for telling him to pull his head out of his ass, sorry man.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-04-2018, 03:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: All true, but i was a little out of line on my reply to Yankee.

I apologize to Bengal Yankee for telling him to pull his head out of his ass, sorry man.

Good Deal  :andy:

I'm no Lazor aider by any means. But come on the guy did ok when you really look at the pile of crap he had handed to him.

Gruden/Jackson/Zampese playbook melted down and mixed together as one. That's always been my gripe with Zampese, he had no real plan, just flipped pages and called plays he hadn't used in awhile. And relied on his predecessors plays.

Throw in PA's interference on blocking schemes and so on and I can't hate on the guy given the circumstances.

I'm willing to give him a chance drawing up his own book incorporating new blocking/O-line coach.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-04-2018, 04:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Good Deal  :andy:

I'm no Lazor aider by any means. But come on the guy did ok when you really look at the pile of crap he had handed to him.

Gruden/Jackson/Zampese playbook melted down and mixed together as one. That's always been my gripe with Zampese, he had no real plan, just flipped pages and called plays he hadn't used in awhile. And relied on his predecessors plays.

Throw in PA's interference on blocking schemes and so on and I can't hate on the guy given the circumstances.

I'm willing to give him a chance drawing up his own book incorporating new blocking/O-line coach.

Same here man, i will judge him when he has gotten a proper chance.

Right now i think that guy is Guenther, he shown what he can do last year and it was his Defense with all that talent
being last against the run and last in 3rd down stoppage. I think we can do better than Paulie G.

Del Rio, get in here.

[*ochocincos*]

Facts:
- Offense under Lazor was still not good (went from 32nd in the league by a mile to 32nd in the league by like a quarter mile)
- Zampese had better blocking in '16 than he/Lazor had in '17
- OL performance was abysmal
- Paul Alexander was the OL coach
- There were a lot of screen plays (assumed to mask poor OL play), which resulted in very few, zero, or negative yards. (Were the screens called so much because of a poor blocking OL? Or are they a staple of a Lazor offense?)

The main culprit when it comes to coaching is now gone (Alexander).
That's an improvement.
Someone had the idea to change the blocking scheme and players around in December and we saw improvement. Assuming it wasn't Alexander since he's gone.
That's an improvement.
This team still has the same offensive coordinator who called a ton of screen plays to receivers who were not good at getting YAC. Those receivers are still on the team.
That's potentially a negative because even better OL won't help much for screens since it's the receiver out in space with only other receivers blocking for him or none at all. If the receivers can't get YAC on screens, they won't work very well.

The Bengals don't have many receivers who can create for themselves with the ball in their hands.
Hopefully, the OL is vastly improved this offseason, which will result in a better run game and more time for passing routes to develop, therefore also resulting in fewer screens being called. If there are a lot of screens again, this team is in trouble because they don't have the receivers that are good with gaining a lot of yards on screens.

I'm still not very optimistic about this offense, but I might be after the draft. If the same problems exist in 2018, then Lazor is definitely a part of the problem.

[XenoMorph]

Lazor getting PA gone and stating he wants players that fit the scheme and wants to create a scheme..

And push Dalton past his limits especially in practice.


He might not have had the full control of an OC last year due to how he became OC.. But next year we will actually see a Lazor Offense... (for good or bad)

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-04-2018, 05:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Facts:
- Offense under Lazor was still not good (went from 32nd in the league by a mile to 32nd in the league by like a quarter mile)
- Zampese had better blocking in '16 than he/Lazor had in '17
- OL performance was abysmal
- Paul Alexander was the OL coach
- There were a lot of screen plays (assumed to mask poor OL play), which resulted in very few, zero, or negative yards. (Were the screens called so much because of a poor blocking OL? Or are they a staple of a Lazor offense?)

The main culprit when it comes to coaching is now gone (Alexander).
That's an improvement.
Someone had the idea to change the blocking scheme and players around in December and we saw improvement. Assuming it wasn't Alexander since he's gone.
That's an improvement.
This team still has the same offensive coordinator who called a ton of screen plays to receivers who were not good at getting YAC. Those receivers are still on the team.
That's potentially a negative because even better OL won't help much for screens since it's the receiver out in space with only other receivers blocking for him or none at all. If the receivers can't get YAC on screens, they won't work very well.

The Bengals don't have many receivers who can create for themselves with the ball in their hands.
Hopefully, the OL is vastly improved this offseason, which will result in a better run game and more time for passing routes to develop, therefore also resulting in fewer screens being called. If there are a lot of screens again, this team is in trouble because they don't have the receivers that are good with gaining a lot of yards on screens.

I'm still not very optimistic about this offense, but I might be after the draft. If the same problems exist in 2018, then Lazor is definitely a part of the problem.

Ross is great in space Ocho, sure would like to see this guy next year on some screens.

Not just that damn jet sweep Zamp used him on and blocking on the edge of the line like he is a TE or something.

Thought it was so much BS the way we used the guy when we did and then hardly used him at all.

This has to change this year if Ross is healthy.

(01-04-2018, 05:32 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Lazor getting PA gone and stating he wants players that fit the scheme and wants to create a scheme..

And push Dalton past his limits especially in practice.


He might not have had the full control of an OC last year due to how he became OC.. But next year we will actually see a Lazor Offense... (for good or bad)

If Lazor gets full control next year it will be much better than this year, that is a given.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-04-2018, 05:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Facts:
- Offense under Lazor was still not good (went from 32nd in the league by a mile to 32nd in the league by like a quarter mile)
- Zampese had better blocking in '16 than he/Lazor had in '17
- OL performance was abysmal
- Paul Alexander was the OL coach
- There were a lot of screen plays (assumed to mask poor OL play), which resulted in very few, zero, or negative yards. (Were the screens called so much because of a poor blocking OL? Or are they a staple of a Lazor offense?)

The main culprit when it comes to coaching is now gone (Alexander).
That's an improvement.
Someone had the idea to change the blocking scheme and players around in December and we saw improvement. Assuming it wasn't Alexander since he's gone.
That's an improvement.
This team still has the same offensive coordinator who called a ton of screen plays to receivers who were not good at getting YAC. Those receivers are still on the team.
That's potentially a negative because even better OL won't help much for screens since it's the receiver out in space with only other receivers blocking for him or none at all. If the receivers can't get YAC on screens, they won't work very well.

The Bengals don't have many receivers who can create for themselves with the ball in their hands.
Hopefully, the OL is vastly improved this offseason, which will result in a better run game and more time for passing routes to develop, therefore also resulting in fewer screens being called. If there are a lot of screens again, this team is in trouble because they don't have the receivers that are good with gaining a lot of yards on screens.

I'm still not very optimistic about this offense, but I might be after the draft. If the same problems exist in 2018, then Lazor is definitely a part of the problem.

The complete lack of anything slightly resembling a running game killed the offense dead in 80% of our games this season !

Can't really blame that on Lazor. For all the throwing league, air it out, pass, pass, pass,  the NFL has become the fact still remains you have to be among the elite of the elite in pass pro, WR's, and QB to live totally from the pass.

[sandwedge]

(01-04-2018, 05:31 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Facts:
- Offense under Lazor was still not good (went from 32nd in the league by a mile to 32nd in the league by like a quarter mile)
- Zampese had better blocking in '16 than he/Lazor had in '17
- OL performance was abysmal
- Paul Alexander was the OL coach
- There were a lot of screen plays (assumed to mask poor OL play), which resulted in very few, zero, or negative yards. (Were the screens called so much because of a poor blocking OL? Or are they a staple of a Lazor offense?)

The main culprit when it comes to coaching is now gone (Alexander).
That's an improvement.
Someone had the idea to change the blocking scheme and players around in December and we saw improvement. Assuming it wasn't Alexander since he's gone.
That's an improvement.
This team still has the same offensive coordinator who called a ton of screen plays to receivers who were not good at getting YAC. Those receivers are still on the team.
That's potentially a negative because even better OL won't help much for screens since it's the receiver out in space with only other receivers blocking for him or none at all. If the receivers can't get YAC on screens, they won't work very well.

The Bengals don't have many receivers who can create for themselves with the ball in their hands.
Hopefully, the OL is vastly improved this offseason, which will result in a better run game and more time for passing routes to develop, therefore also resulting in fewer screens being called. If there are a lot of screens again, this team is in trouble because they don't have the receivers that are good with gaining a lot of yards on screens.

I'm still not very optimistic about this offense, but I might be after the draft. If the same problems exist in 2018, then Lazor is definitely a part of the problem.

I hate the Wr screen pass. Hardly ever works for any team unless it's against our D.  There are a few more plays that I hope to never see again.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-04-2018, 06:55 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I hate the Wr screen pass. Hardly ever works for any team unless it's against our D.  There are a few more plays that I hope to never see again.

Kind of funny it works for other teams against our D but it never works for us, or sad, either way you take it.

TE screen has worked here before though. Really the whole playbook needs to be thrown out and Lazor needs to rewrite a new one.

Not good when Defenses know the exact play you are going to run before you run it.

Another reason i cannot blame Lazor for last year.

[sandwedge]

(01-04-2018, 07:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Kind of funny it works for other teams against our D but it never works for us, or sad, either way you take it.

TE screen has worked here before though. Really the whole playbook needs to be thrown out and Lazor needs to rewrite a new one.

Not good when Defenses know the exact play you are going to run before you run it.

Another reason i cannot blame Lazor for last year.

I'm with you there! A screen over the middle would kill any defense!