QB Index by Gregg Rosenthal

[djs7685]

(09-11-2015, 10:34 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think this pretty much nailed it.  Dalton gets a C because of a "down year" last year, but many of the QBs ranked above him had multiple down years.  If Andy does what I believe he will do this year, he moves his grade to a "B" and slots below Stafford and Ryan. 

They've also had multiple years better than what you usually get out of Andy, which is why they're higher and I'm sure you realize that.

The list you quoted seems much more accurate than Rosenthal's. I do believe Matt Ryan is better than people are giving him credit for though, even if he shouldn't be as high as #5 as Rosenthal has him.

[Brownshoe]

(09-11-2015, 10:34 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think this pretty much nailed it.  Dalton gets a C because of a "down year" last year, but many of the QBs ranked above him had multiple down years.  If Andy does what I believe he will do this year, he moves his grade to a "B" and slots below Stafford and Ryan. 

I always hate how people have Smith over Dalton, and how Stafford and Newton are always so high. Stafford has a big arm and always has the best receivers in the league. Stafford is very inaccurate, but has a powerful arm (some of his best years in accuracy are like Dalton's worst). Every time I watch him I think he's playing a game of "jackpot" just throws the ball down the field to Calvin Johnson, and Johnson normally snatches the ball easily. Cam Newton had a great rookie year, but has been getting worse every year. Dalton has had better stats than Newton every year other than their rookie year. Smith... lol his career high is like 3300 yards and 23 TDs, and thats with Jamaal Charles having a majority of those stats.

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-11-2015, 10:22 AM)djs7685 Wrote: You can pretend that I never mentioned that he had a bad season, and you can pretend that I didn't point out that his most recent accomplishment was bouncing back from a bad season and also keeping up his great playoff streak.

Pretend away, my man.

Why do you just randomly show up in the middle of discussions and throw out something that's a complete lie? It's quite obnoxious. I guess that's what happens when you're one of the guys that think it's only "fair" to compare their first 4 years, which is completely stupid and the most ridiculous logic I've heard in my life.

Point out the "lie".

[djs7685]

(09-11-2015, 10:48 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: I always hate how people have Smith over Dalton, and how Stafford and Newton are always so high. Stafford has a big arm and always has the best receivers in the league. Stafford is very inaccurate, but has a powerful arm (some of his best years in accuracy is like Dalton's worst). Every time I watch him I think he's playing a game of "jackpot" just throws the ball down the field to Calvin Johnson, and Johnson normally snatches the ball easily. Cam Newton had a great rookie year, but has been getting worse every year. Dalton has had better stats than Newton every year other than their rookie year. Smith... lol his career high is like 3300 yards and 23 TDs, and thats with Jamaal Charles having a majority of those stats.

Newton is quite the dynamic playmaker though. He's not a typical pocket passer and he doesn't rack up a ton of yardage overall, but he's pretty good.

Some people really overrate Stafford, he's definitely not a bad QB, but he reminds me of a guy like Jay Cutler. Rocket arm, can rack up volume with good receivers, but isn't that great. People have been lowering Cutlers stock quite a bit over the past couple of years, but for some reason a lot of lists still see Stafford either in or right by the top 10. I don't get it honestly.

I used to think Alex Smith was pretty good, but he just doesn't do much. Their offense last year was almost funny to watch.

[djs7685]

(09-11-2015, 10:56 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Point out the "lie".

"Where's the consistency?" is claiming that I wasn't being consistent.

I was being perfectly consistent since I've had no issue pointing out Flacco's down year in 2013 and then his rebound in 2014.

That's a lie. Not sure why I had to explain that to an adult.

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-11-2015, 10:58 AM)djs7685 Wrote: "Where's the consistency?" is claiming that I wasn't being consistent.

I was being perfectly consistent since I've had no issue pointing out Flacco's down year in 2013 and then his rebound in 2014.

That's a lie. Not sure why I had to explain that to an adult.

It was claiming Flacco wasn't consistent.  Dalton gets eaten up for that all the time.  He's never been that inconsistent though.  A guy that is obviously better than him shouldn't be putting up worse numbers than him.  

[Brownshoe]

(09-11-2015, 10:56 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Newton is quite the dynamic playmaker though. He's not a typical pocket passer and he doesn't rack up a ton of yardage overall, but he's pretty good.

Some people really overrate Stafford though, he's definitely not a bad QB, but he reminds me of a guy like Jay Cutler. Rocket arm, can rack up volume with good receivers, but isn't that great. People have been lowering Cutlers stock quite a bit over the past couple of years, but for some reason a lot of lists still see Stafford either in or right by the top 10. I don't get it honestly.

I used to think Alex Smith was pretty good, but he just doesn't do much. Their offense last year was almost funny to watch.

Cam Newton is a Stafford that can run the ball. He's got a big arm, but very inaccurate. His stats have went down literally every year. If I see that in a QB I probably won't put him so high on a list. I think Newton is still riding the hype of his rookie year. That rookie year he was easily in the top 10, but like I said hes' been declining every year.

[djs7685]

(09-11-2015, 11:00 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: It was claiming Flacco wasn't consistent.  Dalton gets eaten up for that all the time.  He's never been that inconsistent though.  A guy that is obviously better than him shouldn't be putting up worse numbers than him.  

He had 1 down year.

That makes him a worse QB? Derp. Great logic.

Let's throw out the rest of their careers because of that. You make too much sense!

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-11-2015, 11:01 AM)djs7685 Wrote: He had 1 down year.

That makes him a worse QB? Derp. Great logic.

Let's throw out the rest of their careers because of that. You make too much sense!

1 down year?  His career QB rating is lower than Dalton's.

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-11-2015, 10:56 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Newton is quite the dynamic playmaker though. He's not a typical pocket passer and he doesn't rack up a ton of yardage overall, but he's pretty good.

Some people really overrate Stafford, he's definitely not a bad QB, but he reminds me of a guy like Jay Cutler. Rocket arm, can rack up volume with good receivers, but isn't that great. People have been lowering Cutlers stock quite a bit over the past couple of years, but for some reason a lot of lists still see Stafford either in or right by the top 10. I don't get it honestly.

I used to think Alex Smith was pretty good, but he just doesn't do much. Their offense last year was almost funny to watch.

I think you have to always look at Newton's rushing yards as well.  He has almost 2600 yards and 33 touchdowns in four years.

[Brownshoe]

(09-11-2015, 11:03 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I think you have to always look at Newton's rushing yards as well.  He has almost 2600 yards and 33 touchdowns in four years.

706 yards and 14 TDs were all in his rookie year. If you take away his rookie year he averages 621 rushing yards (which is good, but lately he's been throwing under 3300 yards), and 6 TDs. The past 2 years he's averaged 562 rushing yards and a 5.5 rushing TDs.

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-11-2015, 11:03 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: I think you have to always look at Newton's rushing yards as well.  He has almost 2600 yards and 33 touchdowns in four years.

You can't discount those numbers. 

[djs7685]

(09-11-2015, 11:01 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: 1 down year?  His career QB rating is lower than Dalton's.

His rating is lower overall because he had such a terrible year in 2013 it destroyed the numbers. That bad year DID happen, so I'm not going to pretend it didn't, but you're just intentionally missing the entire point here.

Flacco is usually good for about 3,600 - 4,000 yards per season with around 20 - 25 passing TDs and 10-12 INTs. His completion percentage usually isn't amazing but he's good for around 60%. In 7 seasons his passer rating has been between 87.7 and 93.6 in 4 of those years. 2 of the years saw his passer rating right around 80. 1 year was really, really bad.

His postseason numbers since 2010 are 196/327, 2563 yards, 24 TD, 4 INT.

If you think Andy Dalton deserves to be higher on a QB ranking than him, you're just being a blind homer and there isn't much else to it. I don't know why you feel the need to bash Flacco like this, it's sort of petty bullshit.

[OrlandoBengal]

(09-11-2015, 11:04 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: 706 yards and 14 TDs were all in his rookie year. If you take away his rookie year he averages 621 rushing yards (which is good, but lately he's been throwing under 3300 yards), and 6 TDs.

Right, but even last year he rushed for 539 yards.  And that was in 14 games.  If he would have played all 16, he would have probably had over 600 yards.  That is as much as a second running back on many teams.  I don't think he is the greatest, but I do think he makes a lot of plays.

[djs7685]

(09-11-2015, 11:04 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: 706 yards and 14 TDs were all in his rookie year. If you take away his rookie year he averages 621 rushing yards (which is good, but lately he's been throwing under 3300 yards), and 6 TDs. The past 2 years he's averaged 562 rushing yards and a 5.5 rushing TDs.

I think I'd still take him over the guys like Stafford, Cutler, Smith, and the others.

I feel bad for the guy losing his threats though, he's going to have a tough time racking up a ton of stats this year. You can only throw to Greg Olsen so many times.

[Brownshoe]

(09-11-2015, 11:08 AM)OrlandoBengal Wrote: Right, but even last year he rushed for 539 yards.  And that was in 14 games.  If he would have played all 16, he would have probably had over 600 yards.  That is as much as a second running back on many teams.  I don't think he is the greatest, but I do think he makes a lot of plays.

Yes, he has good rushing yards, but the last 2 years his passing stats have been bad. 3379 yards and 24 TDs in 2013 and 3127 yards and 18 TDs in 2014.

[Brownshoe]

(09-11-2015, 11:10 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I think I'd still take him over the guys like Stafford, Cutler, Smith, and the others.

I feel bad for the guy losing his threats though, he's going to have a tough time racking up a ton of stats this year. You can only throw to Greg Olsen so many times.

Yeah this year it's going to be rough. He's going to have to hope that Funchess breaks out like Benjamin did last year.

People were saying he's had no weapons his whole career, so I guess he's used to it right

[WhoDeyWho]

(09-11-2015, 11:07 AM)djs7685 Wrote: His rating is lower overall because he had such a terrible year in 2013 it destroyed the numbers. That bad year DID happen, so I'm not going to pretend it didn't, but you're just intentionally missing the entire point here.

Flacco is usually good for about 3,600 - 4,000 yards per season with around 20 - 25 passing TDs and 10-12 INTs. His completion percentage usually isn't amazing but he's good for around 60%. In 7 seasons his passer rating has been between 87.7 and 93.6 in 4 of those years. 2 of the years saw his passer rating right around 80. 1 year was really, really bad.

His postseason numbers since 2010 are 196/327, 2563 yards, 24 TD, 4 INT.

If you think Andy Dalton deserves to be higher on a QB ranking than him, you're just being a blind homer and there isn't much else to it. I don't know why you feel the need to bash Flacco like this, it's sort of petty bullshit.

Those look like "next level" type of numbers to me.  

[djs7685]

(09-11-2015, 11:13 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Yeah this year it's going to be rough. He's going to have to hope that Funchess breaks out like Benjamin did last year.

People were saying he's had no weapons his whole career, so I guess he's used to it right

Hah, I don't know if he's had none, but they haven't been top of the league great over his career that I remember. He's had some great players around him at times, but I don't seem to recall him having a full lineup of good players in a given year. Could be wrong though, I must say I'm not an expert on 2011-2014 Panthers history to remember their lineups each year, they all kind of jumble together in my mind

(09-11-2015, 11:14 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Those look like "next level" type of numbers to me.  

They look like "not elite but better than Andy Dalton" numbers to me. The postseason speaks for itself, and his regular seasons have been regularly solid enough outside of one year to not take his ranking down as much as you want it to.

Your obsession with Andy is honestly pretty sad.

[Brownshoe]

(09-11-2015, 11:20 AM)djs7685 Wrote: Hah, I don't know if he's had none, but they haven't been top of the league great over his career that I remember. He's had some great players around him at times, but I don't seem to recall him having a full lineup of good players in a given year. Could be wrong though, I must say I'm not an expert on 2011-2014 Panthers history to remember their lineups each year, they all kind of jumble together in my mind


They look like "not elite but better than Andy Dalton" numbers to me. The postseason speaks for itself, and his regular seasons have been regularly solid enough outside of one year to not take his ranking down as much as you want it to.

Your obsession with Andy is honestly pretty sad.

He's had Steve Smith from 2011-2013, He's had Brandon Lafell from 2011-2013, He's had Greg Olsen from 2011-2015, He's had DeAngelo Williams from 2011-2014, and Jonathan Stewart 2011-2015, and Benjamin for 2014. He's had solid weapons. Williams and Stewart are better than people like BJGE.