If I told you once, I told you twice...

[jj22]

(05-07-2019, 06:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh, no.

4300 yds, 30 tds, 70.4 completion percentage, and 99.7 passer rating.

Cousins was not the problem in Minnesota last year.

He's the QB and he couldn't only dream to have lead his team to (a Marvin Lewis lead team at that!) 5 consecutive playoff runs. Maybe it'll come but it hasn't yet.

Intangibles. Somethings missing with him. Maybe his stats will keep him around the league long, but winning is what counts. Stafford has the stats, many of the qb's have better stats, but if your team is winning (mostly, although the last 3 years has been rough). Then that's the only stat that matters.

Would you take "Franchise QB" stats (Stafford, Bradford, Cutler, Flacco etc) and sacrifice the wins?

We had one in Palmer and what did that get us.

Stat's impress the media and that's why they turn a blind eye to the lack of team success for these qb's, but winning should be what fans want.

Stafford is the one that had me wondering why the media's mind was so made up about Dalton. Why weren't they mocking qb's to Detroit? Why has he got such a long leash with them. I used to think the same about Bradford and Cutler.

People would argue they were better than Dalton. But if their teams couldn't consistently win.... Then you take the QB who can.

[jj22]

(05-07-2019, 07:42 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ehh...you tell us not to buy into fake news and then tell us that a number of QBs that have been criticized and called to be replaced don't get criticized.  

Flacco got benched/replaced by a guy who can't throw the ball and people are fine with it.  Elway made some comments about Flacco still having what it takes and the media had a field day with it and laughed at Elway's latest QB-blunder.

Stafford gets lots of flack, and he plays for a franchise that has a single playoff win in 60+ years.  His replacement has been discussed about as much as Dalton's, but it comes back to them playing for garbage franchises.  

Multiple fans/experts have said this is a make or break year for Mariotta and Tannehill was brought in to either take the starting spot now or next year if/when they move on from him.

There has been plenty of noise about the Bucs moving on from James Winston, plus the guy was on the bench for Ryan Fitzpatrick this year and I don't recall anyone acting like the Bucs were insane for playing a journeyman QB over him.  Hardly a sign that no one ever talks about him losing his job.

Kirk Cousins looks bad when you factor in the contract and the buzz he generated as a FA, but as Fred pointed out, he's better than you're giving him credit for.  The guy does fall apart in big games and his W/L record versus winning teams is bad AND it's brought up...a lot.  I don't know where you get the idea that people aren't on his arse.

The media doesn't seem too high on Carr, but he is a one-year wonder who throws the ball 3 yards and had one great season and rode it to a big contract.  There was plenty of buzz about Gruden replacing him in the past year or so, including this draft, and again no one acted like replacing Carr is a crazy idea.

Matt Ryan and Cam Newton aren't HOF-ers, but they both made the SB since we had a winning season, so meh...I can see why they'd get more respect than us/Dalton.  WIth that being said, Cam's shoulder is a big concern and they drafted a QB higher than we did and there is buzz that Cam's best days may be gone.  Like Dalton, he's riding on the "hey, remember 2015!?" fumes.

The fact that you think the media loves Jay Cutler just completely blows my mind.


Ida know, man...you cry fake news and then say a bunch of stuff that doesn't really jive with what I've been hearing.  Plus, Dalton hasn't had a winning season in 3 years.  NOt all his fault, but you can't expect a small-market team to get much attention when they are winning 6 games per year.

Yea, they seem to be more critical of Mariota and Winston, but that's just this past offseason. And they weren't mocking qb's to them. Even with a new HC in Arians. They still got longer leashes then Dalton did.

Cutler I felt like lasted for years without all that much team success. And was always considered the better QB.

Props for going line for line with the qb's.

My only point really is we have a better chance of winning with Dalton still, then some of these media favorites (they wanted us to draft). Because exciting doesn't always translate to winning. So Bengals fans if anything should keep that in mind. It's been 3 years, and that's a long time, but for fans of some of these teams with  "Franchise QB's" 3 bad years out of the last 8 isn't so bad.

The truth is Dalton gets dinged for winning too fast. Spread those 5 playoff appearances out over 8 years and he's still trending up after entering his prime (with QB's playing until 40 now).

[Bengalitis]

(05-07-2019, 05:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think a playoff win (just one) would work wonders for Daltons reputation. No matter his future with the team, I hope he can get one for his reputation. Since he can't get any respect any other way (and they'll still likely credit the team and ZT if it happens), and blame Dalton on not making the Superbowl. A far more demanding set of hurdles to jump to get respect then many other qb's around the league.

If he doesn't, he joins Marvin in the gutter in that aspect.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-07-2019, 06:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Uh, no.

4300 yds, 30 tds, 70.4 completion percentage, and 99.7 passer rating.

Cousins was not the problem in Minnesota last year.

Well, according to folks on this board, he still has a big fat 0 in the playoff win column, so he is a middling QB lol

[*Nately120*]

(05-07-2019, 09:03 PM)jj22 Wrote: Yea, they seem to be more critical of Mariota and Winston, but that's just this past offseason. And they weren't mocking qb's to them. Even with a new HC in Arians. They still got longer leashes then Dalton did.

Cutler I felt like lasted for years without all that much team success. And was always considered the better QB.

Props for going line for line with the qb's.

My only point really is we have a better chance of winning with Dalton still, then some of these media favorites (they wanted us to draft). Because exciting doesn't always translate to winning. So Bengals fans if anything should keep that in mind. It's been 3 years, and that's a long time, but for fans of some of these teams with  "Franchise QB's" 3 bad years out of the last 8 isn't so bad.

The truth is Dalton gets dinged for winning too fast. Spread those 5 playoff appearances out over 8 years and he's still trending up after entering his prime (with QB's playing until 40 now).

Winston and Mariota are still on rookie deals, so you don't hear a lot of teams looking to move on unless they get a Johnny Fartball kinda player.  Mariotta and Winston have both been cited as guys their franchises could pass on locking down, though.  

For Cutler, other than being a sourpuss of a guy, the big reason he disappointed was because he was in a high profile rivalry with the Packers and Aaron Rodgers.  Cutler was 2-11 against the Packers, which can be compared to Dalton vs the Steelers.  Yes, there is more that goes into a team vs team matchup, but it's not hard to see why people who don't watch the Bengals and their primary team can be so dismissive of Dalton.

I do see what you mean about spreading those Dalton playoff berths/losses across 8 years rather than the first 5, but still that's just moving stuff around.  I have a buddy who is a Bill fan, maybe I'll ask if he would have felt better if the Bills spread those 4 lost SB's over the span of 10+ years, ha.

At any rate, I don't have anything against Dalton, and I do think he's overly bashed by outsiders.  With that being said, I find some of our defenses of the guy to be a little odd, too.  We are so high on the genius of ZT at the moment, that if 2019 doesn't go very well on offense I could see the fanbase throwing Dalton under the bus first, though.

[jj22]

(05-07-2019, 10:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Winston and Mariota are still on rookie deals, so you don't hear a lot of teams looking to move on unless they get a Johnny Fartball kinda player.  Mariotta and Winston have both been cited as guys their franchises could pass on locking down, though.  

For Cutler, other than being a sourpuss of a guy, the big reason he disappointed was because he was in a high profile rivalry with the Packers and Aaron Rodgers.  Cutler was 2-11 against the Packers, which can be compared to Dalton vs the Steelers.  Yes, there is more that goes into a team vs team matchup, but it's not hard to see why people who don't watch the Bengals and their primary team can be so dismissive of Dalton.

I do see what you mean about spreading those Dalton playoff berths/losses across 8 years rather than the first 5, but still that's just moving stuff around.  I have a buddy who is a Bill fan, maybe I'll ask if he would have felt better if the Bills spread those 4 lost SB's over the span of 10+ years, ha.

At any rate, I don't have anything against Dalton, and I do think he's overly bashed by outsiders.  With that being said, I find some of our defenses of the guy to be a little odd, too.  We are so high on the genius of ZT at the moment, that if 2019 doesn't go very well on offense I could see the fanbase throwing Dalton under the bus first, though.

I think so too. And would understand. That's why it's a big year for him.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-07-2019, 10:30 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think so too. And would understand. That's why it's a big year for him.

Yup

This coming season will be a turning point for Dalton, either he proves he's got "it" or it goes south for him. 

[PAjwPhilly]

(05-07-2019, 06:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Over the last 4 years Cousins has the 4th most passing yards in the league (17,474) and the 6th highest passer rating (98.1).  Drew Brees is the only QB with a higher completion percentage than Cousins (67.8) during that stretch, and only 3 QBs (Brady, Brees, Wilson) have accounted for more tds (rush + pass) than Cousin's 125.

Kirk has elite QB production that dwarves anything Andy has ever done.

BUT just watching replays and casually following other NFL teams, you won't realize this. 

I would say the same thing with Dalton, in the sense that if you just watch the scores and casually watch the team... you think he is at fault. That he is a bottom tier QB. I think the error is that people and the media judge a QB's worth by simply wins and loses.  And there is more to the position and an NFL game than just that.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

In the Marvin Lewis era — now the Zac Taylor era — Cincinnati has had two fantastic quarterbacks in Carson Palmer and Andy Dalton. Carson was elite, especially early on, and I believe Andy will reach elite status later in his career. I won’t compare these two players because they have two completely different skill sets, but both of their skill sets fit the offensive schemes at the time they played.

I can’t blame either Carson or Andy individually for playoff losses. You win as a team and you lose as a team. That’s on the coaches.

Since this thread is about Andy Dalton, I want to share my thoughts. I’m a fan. I’m a fan of his intellect, I’m impressed with the way he audibles into better plays when the defense shows him something, and I admire his toughness. Other than the thumb injures Andy has been among the most durable quarterbacks in the league. He’s in good shape and he’s tough — and he has arm strength in the Red Zone where it counts.

Put the right weapons around Andy and he’s dangerous. In 2015 he was in the MVP conversation and I suspect this will happen again in the near future. He’s not flashy or anything but he gets the job done. Even when the offensive line failed to protect him, Andy found ways of calling shorter routes and got the ball out faster and faster.

Finally, Zac Taylor believes in Andy Dalton. That’s good enough for me.

[Nicomo Cosca]

The coaches made Andy throw like 37 ints and fumble 48 times in the playoffs? Ok lol

You can certainly say the teams were never properly prepared, and that Marvin was constantly out-coached, but c’mon...Andy has been AWFUL in the playoffs let’s not let him off the hook that easily.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(05-07-2019, 08:46 PM)jason Wrote: So... What's your name?

Let's figure it out together

Harley - he likes Harley-Davidsons
Dog - he used to be a dog
HarleyDog - he has a Harley-Davidson

So, his name starts with an M

[HarleyDog]

(05-07-2019, 08:46 PM)jason Wrote: So... What's your name?

HarleyDog.

[HarleyDog]

(05-07-2019, 10:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: At any rate, I don't have anything against Dalton, and I do think he's overly bashed by outsiders.  With that being said, I find some of our defenses of the guy to be a little odd, too.  We are so high on the genius of ZT at the moment, that if 2019 doesn't go very well on offense I could see the fanbase throwing Dalton under the bus first, though.

Let’s hope the players learn that new playbook. Shouldn’t be a problem.

[HuDey]

I’m going to go out on a limb and say that everyone leaves this thread feeling exactly the same about Dalton as they did when they came into it. He’s been here for 8 seasons, we know who he is. I don’t buy the media shaping angle either. Outsiders who have mostly only seen him in playoffs or prime time probably don’t have a high opinion about his abilities. Bengal fans who watch him with regularity see the things that he does well, but they also see his limitations. You can win with Andy Dalton if you make things easy for him. That gets significantly more difficult to do once the post season rolls around.

[muskiesfan]

I live in Mariota country and while the media may be talking about the Titans need to move on from him, the fans certainly don't agree. On the sports talk radio and listening to fans, Mariota is potentially the second coming. It's not his fault he gets injured so much, they need to improve the OLine. It's not his fault that his numbers aren't great, they won't give him top notch receivers. Plus, how can he be expected to put up huge numbers when he's always injured and can't play. Also, all of the injuries are just proof of how tough he is and how he's a throwback type of player who has grit. They also do not mind that he's going to make $20.9 million this season.

That's no joke. I look at the guy and think they're way overpaying and should move on. In the Nashville area, they absolutely worship this guy. They believe he's easily a top 10 NFL QB. It's crazy. What's even funnier is there are people on this message board who have ranked Mariota higher than Dalton. Mariota is a good person, but I have no idea how he's built up the following and support he has. They'd absolutely lose their shit around here is he put up numbers like Dalton. They'd erect statues and rename the state after him.

[KillerGoose]

(05-07-2019, 08:47 PM)jj22 Wrote: He's the QB and he couldn't only dream to have lead his team to (a Marvin Lewis lead team at that!) 5 consecutive playoff runs. Maybe it'll come but it hasn't yet.

Intangibles. Somethings missing with him. Maybe his stats will keep him around the league long, but winning is what counts. Stafford has the stats, many of the qb's have better stats, but if your team is winning (mostly, although the last 3 years has been rough). Then that's the only stat that matters.

Would you take "Franchise QB" stats (Stafford, Bradford, Cutler, Flacco etc) and sacrifice the wins?

We had one in Palmer and what did that get us.

Stat's impress the media and that's why they turn a blind eye to the lack of team success for these qb's, but winning should be what fans want.

Stafford is the one that had me wondering why the media's mind was so made up about Dalton. Why weren't they mocking qb's to Detroit? Why has he got such a long leash with them. I used to think the same about Bradford and Cutler.

People would argue they were better than Dalton. But if their teams couldn't consistently win.... Then you take the QB who can.

Winning doesn’t fall solely on the QB, what a stupid way to gauge a QB. Football is the ultimate team sport and you need a well rounded team to get wins. Dalton has had that for the majority of his career (again, from 2013-2015, the Bengals had one of the, if not THE, most talented roster from top to bottom.) Some of Dalton’s talent has left and the Bengals haven’t won more than 7 games for the past three years straight, but you’re going to come in saying “pick the QB who can win”?

The vast majority of QBs on that list are well ahead of Dalton. Stafford, Ryan and Cam are all top 10 QBs with Kirk on the borderline. I like Dalton but Insure hope you aren’t trying to put him up there with Ryan or Cam, because that is laughable.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-07-2019, 05:05 PM)jj22 Wrote: Joe Flacco. Ok. He's got the ring and the mega playoff run. But I'd take Dalton over him (as many of us probably would given what we've seen from Flacco over the last 5 years. However, I don't think the MSM considers him the better QB. He is.

All people seem to remember about that playoff run was that they won the Super Bowl. Flacco actually wasn't THAT extraordinary during it.
52% completion percentage for 282 yards in his first game
52% completion percentage for 331 yards in his second game
58% completion percentage for 240 yards in the AFCC
The big thing Flacco had (or should I say didn't have) was interceptions. 0 during the whole postseason.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-08-2019, 09:15 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I live in Mariota country and while the media may be talking about the Titans need to move on from him, the fans certainly don't agree. On the sports talk radio and listening to fans, Mariota is potentially the second coming. It's not his fault he gets injured so much, they need to improve the OLine. It's not his fault that his numbers aren't great, they won't give him top notch receivers. Plus, how can he be expected to put up huge numbers when he's always injured and can't play. Also, all of the injuries are just proof of how tough he is and how he's a throwback type of player who has grit. They also do not mind that he's going to make $20.9 million this season.

That's no joke. I look at the guy and think they're way overpaying and should move on. In the Nashville area, they absolutely worship this guy. They believe he's easily a top 10 NFL QB. It's crazy. What's even funnier is there are people on this message board who have ranked Mariota higher than Dalton. Mariota is a good person, but I have no idea how he's built up the following and support he has. They'd absolutely lose their shit around here is he put up numbers like Dalton. They'd erect statues and rename the state after him.

I'm in the Greater Nashville area now and I don't really hear people talking about Mariota (or the Titans) much at all. I've heard much more chatter about the Preds. Nashville seems more of hockey town than football town.

With that said, I think Mariota has some good traits but he's not able to run nearly as much as he was in college, which is what made him an elite college QB. He'll always be a low 60% completion percentage (which is fine) and throw for between 3000 and 4000 yards. He's had above a 90 QBR all but one season, so he's slightly better than Dalton in that area. Overall, he's very similar to Dalton.

[jj22]

(05-08-2019, 09:33 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Winning doesn’t fall solely on the QB, what a stupid way to gauge a QB. Football is the ultimate team sport and you need a well rounded team to get wins. Dalton has had that for the majority of his career (again, from 2013-2015, the Bengals had one of the, if not THE, most talented roster from top to bottom.) Some of Dalton’s talent has left and the Bengals haven’t won more than 7 games for the past three years straight, but you’re going to come in saying “pick the QB who can win”?

The vast majority of QBs on that list are well ahead of Dalton. Stafford, Ryan and Cam are all top 10 QBs with Kirk on the borderline. I like Dalton but Insure hope you aren’t trying to put him up there with Ryan or Cam, because that is laughable.

Dalton has only had 2 losing seasons in his 8 year career. And not because of a bunch of 8-8 seasons that can be claimed as no losing seasons. That has to mean something. It would for any other qb. It's unprecedented really.

The media wants us to get rid of the qb that only had 2 losing season in 8 years. Think about that for a second. Never would they demand that from another franchise. Never would they be mocking new qb's to the team whose qb had that track record. Fans shouldn't fall for it.

I don't mind us within the jungle discussing Dalton and even wanting to move on from him. But we shouldn't let the media determine that given Daltons record with the team and the fact there are teams with far worse records who should in theory then need a new qb. But don't nearly get the hate Dalton gets.

[jj22]

(05-07-2019, 11:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The coaches made Andy throw like 37 ints and fumble 48 times in the playoffs? Ok lol

You can certainly say the teams were never properly prepared, and that Marvin was constantly out-coached, but c’mon...Andy has been AWFUL in the playoffs let’s not let him off the hook that easily.

At least he led his team to the playoff's to be awful there.

What about the teams who's qb's can't even lead them to the playoffs so that we can see how they play one way (good) or another (bad)? You know, a lot of these media darlings.

Maybe Dalton was better off not making the playoffs in his 8 years so that he wouldn't be criticized for this and still be beloved by the media you know, like Stafford and his 1 playoff appearance (and winning season) in 11 years under him.