MSN published a list 12 teams "running out of fans"...

[NKURyan]

(07-24-2019, 05:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is.

Not to the extent it is here. While attendance may be down across the board, 20%+ seems well off of the norm. The Indianapolis Colts are #12 on the list I linked and their attendance is only down 10%. Cincinnati and Tampa Bay are also the only cities with TWO teams on the list, which is also a bit concerning, and Tampa Bay a) hasn't had as much success as we have in football over the last decade, b) their baseball team plays in what is widely considered the worst place to watch professional sports in America, and c) has a pretty high population of people who moved from other cities (and thus kept their original sports allegiances).

Hell, there are plenty of people around who will try to tell you that that this is one of the greatest baseball towns in the country... you hear it every Opening Day. If the city loves baseball so much, why doesn't it look that way when you turn on a game? Even though the Reds aren't great by any stretch of the imagination, they're still only 7 games out of the postseason at this point, so it's not like they're 20+ games back.

[Essex Johnson]

(07-23-2019, 08:32 PM)TopSix Wrote: There wont be professional sports in Cincinnati after 2025

You cant try and fail as much as these clown organizations and keep it going

They have shown obvious refusal to try and maintain competitive franchises - Both teams are laughingstocks with clueless owners

The fans are leaving

The stadiums are terrible.  The teams are miserable.  You all are going to be have to deal w reality.

I tried to read your post with an open mind, which was hard with the first line.. Reds are going nowhere.. with the big spending going on in NFL , Bengals could move to a large city.  But your last line lacks any real substance.  For example how many stadiums have you visited for a judgement.

I have visited over 25 MLB parks and over 12 NFL parks and in just those parks the Reds are in the upper half for sure.. Bengals middle of the pack I have been to but I would say overall they are a average stadium at best

[Kingslayer]

Prices to go to a game are just too high. Tickets, parking, concession, hundreds of dollars if you want to bring the family.

Cheaper to watch at home. Also for me, it's a 5 hour drive round trip to Cincinnati and back.

[masonbengals fan]

(07-23-2019, 08:32 PM)TopSix Wrote: There wont be professional sports in Cincinnati after 2025

You cant try and fail as much as these clown organizations and keep it going

They have shown obvious refusal to try and maintain competitive franchises - Both teams are laughingstocks with clueless owners

The fans are leaving

The stadiums are terrible.  The teams are miserable.  You all are going to be have to deal w reality.

[NKURyan]

(07-24-2019, 07:32 PM)Kingslayer Wrote: Prices to go to a game are just too high.  Tickets, parking, concession, hundreds of dollars if you want to bring the family.

Cheaper to watch at home.  Also for me, it's a 5 hour drive round trip to Cincinnati and back.

Both franchise have cut prices since 2008, though. If there's a cheaper ticket in the NFL than the Bengals $20-a-game Jungle Pass I'd be surprised. My dad and I park a few blocks from the stadium for $15. Agree that concessions are overpriced, but IMO 1pm games are pretty much perfectly placed so that you don't really have to buy anything (unless you're planning on drinking, which a lot of people are)... you can grab lunch before and dinner right after. I'm sure the cost of parking and concessions are pretty bad across the NFL, too. The Reds sell $1 hot dogs and drinks at every game (unless that's changed recently) if you're willing to seek them out.

I definitely get that some people don't live close enough to make the trek worth it, but that's always been the case for a lot of fans.

I guess I'm just looking for what makes Cincinnati different from every other professional sports town. Why are both of our teams dropping so much more than anyone else?

[TopSix]

(07-24-2019, 07:17 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I tried to read your post with an open mind, which was hard with the first line.. Reds are going nowhere.. with the big spending going on in NFL , Bengals could move to a large city.  But your last line lacks any real substance.  For example how many stadiums have you visited for a judgement.

I have visited over 25 MLB parks and over 12 NFL parks and in just those parks the Reds are in the upper half for sure.. Bengals middle of the pack I have been to but I would say overall they are a average stadium at best

I can’t stress enough how the product on the field is beyond substandard. You can’t wake up for 25 straight season and flat out fail 19-20 out of 25 chances and keep your teams. That’s the reds and bengals current track records

I’m born and raised in Cincy. Paul brown stadium is awful. Gabp is middle of the pack. The reds stadium also faces the wrong direction.

The bengals won’t be in Cincy after the 2024 season

The reds are going to relocate as well. Both teams refuse to attempt to be mediocre

[TopSix]

(07-25-2019, 09:03 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: So are all the other hard luck sports towns like Buffalo, San Diego, etc going to lose their teams too?

San Diego lost their nfl team genius. Lol

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-25-2019, 09:10 AM)TopSix Wrote: San Diego lost their nfl team genius. Lol

Forgot. LA having two teams is beyond stupid, and will not last anyway.

Still don’t believe for a second you’re from Cincinnati though. Anyone from here would know how ingrained the Reds are in the culture, and our history, etc.

HIGHLY doubt the Bengals ever leave either. It’s s family run business, and that family’s ties are to CINCINNATI.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-23-2019, 09:21 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Why isn't it happening everywhere, then?

I think it is, but to a lesser extent.  Some cities are just significantly larger populations and that makes it a bit of a challenge to compare.  Take the population and divide it by the stadium capacity and you could come up with an equation for how much of a cities population attends the games.  Cincy was pretty high (especially in football) for some time.  The last two seasons under Marv were unwatchable.  Incredibly boring and stale.  And they are my team!  I didn't mean to make it sound like there was nothing other than the TV experience that made the attendance drop, but it sure makes it easier for any frustrated fans to stay home and watch.  

[TopSix]

(07-25-2019, 09:21 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Forgot. LA having two teams is beyond stupid, and will not last anyway.

Still don’t believe for a second you’re from Cincinnati though. Anyone from here would know how ingrained the Reds are in the culture, and our history, etc.

HIGHLY doubt the Bengals ever leave either. It’s s family run business, and that family’s ties are to CINCINNATI.

OK, great points.  You forgot the city you were using to justify the bengals not leaving left. 

and you dont believe I am from Cincy, but i am.   

You're really rolling here. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(07-25-2019, 10:17 AM)TopSix Wrote: OK, great points.  You forgot the city you were using to justify the bengals not leaving left. 

and you dont believe I am from Cincy, but i am.   

You're really rolling here. 

And you’re really trolling...

Anyway there’s other miserable sports cities that will probably never lose their teams. Being in the Midwest, or somewhere like Buffalo, is a lot different than somewhere like Southern California. Way more to do out there, and sports have competition for people’s time and money. So San Diego was a bad example on my part anyway.

[XenoMorph]

(07-23-2019, 05:08 PM)NKURyan Wrote: Here's a non-slideshow version of MSN's list:

http://deslide.clusterfake.net/?o=html_table&u=https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/sports-teams-running-out-of-fans/ss-AAE5Abe?li=BBnb7Kz&utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

The list is based on attendance drops over the last ten years. The Reds (-20.9%) and Bengals (-21.4%) are back-to-back in the middle at 7 and 8.

Now this seems to just be a flat-out comparison between what the teams drew in 2008 and what they drew in 2018... in other words, it doesn't take into account the surge in attendance the Bengals and Reds had in that 2012-2015 range when both teams were pretty good. Still, neither team was particularly good in 2008, either, so why was attendance so much higher? The current crop of Bengals have had a lot more success than the 2008 Bengals ever did, for example, so I'm not sure it's just the losing.

Cause for concern, or nothing to worry about? Curious to hear what people think. I myself remain a Bengals season ticket holder, but I've grown frustrated with the Reds and haven't been to a game in probably 3 or 4 years. What are your experiences?

2008 bengals fans were still riding high on palmer.... little did we know

[NKURyan]

(07-25-2019, 09:00 AM)TopSix: Wrote: The reds are going to relocate as well. Both teams refuse to attempt to be mediocre

Even if MLB wanted to relocate a team or two, the Reds would be way down on the list of teams they'd look to move. Tampa Bay, Oakland, and Miami all jump to mind as teams with far bigger struggles attracting fans than the Reds do, and Cincinnati's pure historical significance in the history of baseball ensures they'd never even think about it. As bad as the Reds attendance has been, there's still 11 teams behind them in average attendance per game, including Cleveland and Pittsburgh (2 cities that we're constantly compared to).

The Marlins don't even average 10k a game - that's 6 thousand less than the second worst attendance in the league! They don't even have a fanbase to upset.

[TopSix]

(07-25-2019, 10:51 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And you’re really trolling...

Anyway there’s other miserable sports cities that will probably never lose their teams. Being in the Midwest, or somewhere like Buffalo, is a lot different than somewhere like Southern California. Way more to do out there, and sports have competition for people’s time and money. So San Diego was a bad example on my part anyway.

Here’s the thing

All you do is talk in excuses and justifying these miserable franchises

All Cincinnati fans do is cry over the media, the refs. The cheating ‘Stoolers’ Or cardinals. The leagues are biased against them. Sob story after sob story. The league doesn’t make u draft John Ross Or Levi Jones Or akili or Og and price and Fischer. Or nick travieso Or Phil ervin Or Tyler Stephenson and nick howard for that matter

The reality is they are sh.it run franchises with owners that don’t prioritize winning. They are timid, scared organizations that are cheap and take short cuts every year.

There is no drive to be better for either the reds or the bengals.

You’re delusional if you think otherwise. Pro sports has failed in Cincinnati

[TopSix]

(07-25-2019, 03:34 PM)TopSix Wrote: Here’s the thing

All you do is talk in excuses and justifying these miserable franchises

All Cincinnati fans do is cry over the media, the refs. The cheating ‘Stoolers’ Or cardinals. The leagues are biased against them. Sob story after sob story. The league doesn’t make u draft John Ross Or Levi Jones Or akili or Og and price and Fischer. Or nick travieso Or Phil ervin Or Tyler Stephenson and nick howard for that matter

The reality is they are sh.it run franchises with owners that don’t prioritize winning. They are timid, scared organizations that are cheap and take short cuts every year.

There is no drive to be better for either the reds or the bengals.

You’re delusional if you think otherwise. Pro sports has failed in Cincinnati

As I typed this. They bring back Andre smith. Lol. It’s poetic

[NKURyan]

(07-25-2019, 03:34 PM)TopSix Wrote: Here’s the thing

All you do is talk in excuses and justifying these miserable franchises

All Cincinnati fans do is cry over the media, the refs. The cheating ‘Stoolers’ Or cardinals.   The leagues are biased against them.  Sob story after sob story.  The league doesn’t make u draft John Ross Or Levi Jones Or akili or Og and price and Fischer.  Or nick travieso Or Phil ervin Or Tyler Stephenson and nick howard for that matter

The reality is they are sh.it run franchises with owners that don’t prioritize winning.   They are timid, scared organizations that are cheap and take short cuts every year.  

There is no drive to be better for either the reds or the bengals.

You’re delusional if you think otherwise.  Pro sports has failed in Cincinnati

I would say that Nicomo is far from Mr. Blind Positivity around here - he's been very critical of moves the Bengals have made in the past and has been outspoken about how the team is run. Painting him as "making excuses" and "justifying these miserable franchises" is pretty off the mark.

Pretty odd that you'd include Levi Jones in the list of Bengals draft busts, as well. He was pretty good here for several years.

The Reds, in their defense, were one of the more active teams in the offseason last year, so I'd say there was a definite effort to get better (and they are definitely better this year). Their problem is they were so bad last year that no moves they were going to make were instantly going to turn them around in one season. It takes years of these types of moves to build in a winner in baseball, but I'd say they've at least pointed the franchise in the right direction.

"The pro sports has failed in Cincinnati" line in particular strikes me as pretty stupid, though. The Reds have been here for 137 years. The Bengals have been here for 51 years. You don't fail at something and stick around for that long. The city just added a third professional team that's been third in the league in attendance for much of the season. On field success or not, these are hardly failures.

But yeah, maybe we're delusional for sticking with the teams and frequenting message boards to talk about them even though a lot of times they fail to live up to the loyalty we give them. Still, I'd rather be delusional than someone who clearly hates the franchise but finds time to visit their messageboards anyways because that... that sounds pretty pathetic lol.

[J24]

If the Bengals were to be sold then there would be a huge jump in attendance. Cincy is a top 30 metropolitan area, top 40 TV market, and it has a ton of Fortune 500 companies for a small market. Plus PBS is not even 20 years old and will probably get more money pumped into it for the world Cup in 2026. I could see them leaving but it would have to be a sweetheart deal for the team and league.

[NKURyan]

(07-25-2019, 05:00 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: If the Bengals were to be sold then there would be a huge jump in attendance. Cincy is a top 30 metropolitan area, top 40 TV market, and it has a ton of Fortune 500 companies for a small market. Plus PBS is not even 20 years old and will probably get more money pumped into it for the world Cup in 2026. I could see them leaving but it would have to be a sweetheart deal for the team and league.

I'll be more likely to believe fans will flock to the stadium after Mike Brown is gone if a see a bunch of the fans who said they'd never come back while Marvin was here return.

Did the Reds see a noticeable bump in attendance when Casteleni (sp?) took over for Lindner? That wasn't all that long ago...

[XenoMorph]

(07-25-2019, 05:00 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: If the Bengals were to be sold then there would be a huge jump in attendance. Cincy is a top 30 metropolitan area, top 40 TV market, and it has a ton of Fortune 500 companies for a small market. Plus PBS is not even 20 years old and will probably get more money pumped into it for the world Cup in 2026. I could see them leaving but it would have to be a sweetheart deal for the team and league.

that might be true when they move to a bigger city with more people....


When they leave we wont ever get another one though.


New Owner unless still family wont keep the team here.

[TopSix]

(07-25-2019, 05:00 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: If the Bengals were to be sold then there would be a huge jump in attendance. Cincy is a top 30 metropolitan area, top 40 TV market, and it has a ton of Fortune 500 companies for a small market. Plus PBS is not even 20 years old and will probably get more money pumped into it for the world Cup in 2026. I could see them leaving but it would have to be a sweetheart deal for the team and league.

The bengals stadium lease is up in 2024