Thoughts after a few weeks...

[thillan]

(09-16-2019, 04:46 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Yes.  Smith also didn't have the Oline that Mahomes has.  It is a small thing, but a very important one.

I was only pointing out my thoughts on your assessment of QBs in general.  I wasn't really trying to be a "Dalton Defender" however if the criticism on Dalton is because he doesn't have the stats that the "Dynamic" QBs have then it has to be addressed.

I don't care who our QB is, if we don't fix the line, then he won't be "dynamic".  Without better defensive play, we will not win any SBs. 

Foles, Dilfer, Eli Manning and I would even add the young Russell Wilson and Roethlisberger as proof that a QB of Dalton's caliber is in fact good enough to win SBs.  All of those "dynamic" guys haven't won anything of value, maybe a MVP award, but those are empty when Brady (who is the perfect example of a game manager) wins SB after SB.

Brady has the best HC of all time. We don’t. When you don’t, you have to make up for it in other areas.

The idea that if Dalton was on KC and we had Mahomes, we’d be seeing AD is better is laughable, I’m sorry. I’ll post a clip of a play Mahomes has made that Andy can’t, then you go:

https://youtu.be/9JY-6-Gp_j0

Check the second TD pass. Andy couldn’t dream of doing that.

[Andy2AJ]

We need to go 0-16 next yr to get lawerence. Dude is a stud

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-16-2019, 02:40 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: To me it is a very simple scale.

When the pressure is on, the lights are brightest and you have to win or go home, does the guy rise to the occasion or does he collapse and look lost?

I can handle a bad loss in a regular season game, happens to every NFL team and every QB, Rodgers, Favre, Manning, etc, etc, but those guys all had one thing in common that I don't ever see in Andy and that is a passion in the bright lights to be the guy leading the team.

Even if you lose the game, it is about looking like you belong on the field with the other team and the moment isn't too big for you. Having the ability to install confidence in your team mates and calm them down in adverse moments, that is a what a good NFL QB can do.

Now, how often in the big moments, when things weren't going great do you remember seeing that from this team?

I see many players on this team "fold" under the bright lights.  Green hasn't been overly dominant in the playoffs.  Atkins has disappeared, but not too many say that they don't have "it".  Only Dalton. 

I know it is speculation, but if Dalton doesn't get injured in '15, we get a win.  We haven't been back since then, so we don't know if he can get the win or not.

He is 0-5 in the playoffs and his rookie year and the following are the few times he had his full roster.  The only really glaring playoff game in which he looked straight up horrible is against SD.  He did play well in the 1st half, but after Gio's fumble things went down hill.  Some believe Jay was in a hurry to get to Washington, and that he didn't actually prepare a game plan designed to win.  It was more like "here we go, if we win, cool, but I have other things on my mind".

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-16-2019, 04:52 PM)thillan Wrote: Brady has the best HC of all time. We don’t. When you don’t, you have to make up for it in other areas.

The idea that if Dalton was on KC and we had Mahomes, we’d be seeing AD is better is laughable, I’m sorry. I’ll post a clip of a play Mahomes has made that Andy can’t, then you go:

https://youtu.be/9JY-6-Gp_j0

Check the second TD pass. Andy couldn’t dream of doing that.

I would like to see Mahomes deliver a strike when he is getting hit like Dalton:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhCJqtFV8Xg


As to the TD throw:  Dalton did that with Eifert against the Browns on Thursday Night Football.  Check the 1:00 mark after the Browns penalty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXS9ndb4_lc

[impactplaya]

Kyle Shanahan is a offensive genius
Coach Lou this is his 1st time as DC
Kyle will out scheme him 10 out of 10 times
The Bengals D won't be see a Kyle Shanahan every week

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-16-2019, 04:52 PM)thillan Wrote: Brady has the best HC of all time. We don’t. When you don’t, you have to make up for it in other areas.

The idea that if Dalton was on KC and we had Mahomes, we’d be seeing AD is better is laughable, I’m sorry. I’ll post a clip of a play Mahomes has made that Andy can’t, then you go:

https://youtu.be/9JY-6-Gp_j0

Check the second TD pass. Andy couldn’t dream of doing that.

Yes, Brady does.  It isn't hard to believe that Dalton couldn't perform better with a better HC.  I am not sold on ZT, but it is way to early to think isn't a good HC.

I would agree about Dalton, if we had a strong Defense, everyone healthy for the whole year, and he doesn't produce, but until then, I am fine with Dalton.  I see the hate, I understand the hate, I just disagree with it.

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-16-2019, 05:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You’re clown. No wonder you love the redhead so much.

And I’m 99.9% sure you’re not “new here”

Think what you will.  As to calling me a clown... not sure but isn't that against the CoC?  Personal attacks.

Yes, I am new here.  Not sure I will stay if you are what I would have to put up with.  Someone that doesn't have a clue about how to discuss the way this team needs to go.

You think we need to "rebuild" the OLine and get a better QB and we all of a sudden win SBs.  Especially if the QB is "dynamic" and is praised by the league.  You want the media to love the QB more than you want to address the other holes that are more prominent on this team.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-16-2019, 04:57 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I see many players on this team "fold" under the bright lights.  Green hasn't been overly dominant in the playoffs.  Atkins has disappeared, but not too many say that they don't have "it".  Only Dalton. 

I know it is speculation, but if Dalton doesn't get injured in '15, we get a win.  We haven't been back since then, so we don't know if he can get the win or not.

He is 0-5 in the playoffs and his rookie year and the following are the few times he had his full roster.  The only really glaring playoff game in which he looked straight up horrible is against SD.  He did play well in the 1st half, but after Gio's fumble things went down hill.  Some believe Jay was in a hurry to get to Washington, and that he didn't actually prepare a game plan designed to win.  It was more like "here we go, if we win, cool, but I have other things on my mind".

No he’s not. He’s 0-4. Do you even really follow this team?

No it wasn’t. He was straight ass the second Houston game.

127 yds 0 TD 1 Int 46.6 cmp% 44.4 PR...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-16-2019, 05:19 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Think what you will.  As to calling me a clown... not sure but isn't that against the CoC?  Personal attacks.

Yes, I am new here.  Not sure I will stay if you are what I would have to put up with.  Someone that doesn't have a clue about how to discuss the way this team needs to go.

You think we need to "rebuild" the OLine and get a better QB and we all of a sudden win SBs.  Especially if the QB is "dynamic" and is praised by the league.  You want the media to love the QB more than you want to address the other holes that are more prominent on this team.

See...I only made it personal AFTER you did. Telling someone they’re clueless or don’t know what they’re talking about is just as insulting as me calling you a clown. Which you’re acting like. If we go back and look YOU had the initial butthurt over me wanting a new QB to go along with a new OL. Then you started going off on some weird tirade about Mixon out of nowhere...

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-16-2019, 05:22 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No he’s not. He’s 0-4. Do you even really follow this team?

No it wasn’t. He was straight ass the second Houston game.

127 yds 0 TD 46.6 cmp% 44.4 PR...

I put down a 5 instead of the number next to it... ya got me.  I am a fraud.... 

So his sophomore season he is supposed to be lighting up Houston with the defense they had at the time?

Joseph, Mercilious, Watt, Reed, Crick, Antonio Smith, Barwin, Quinn and Manning.

Oh, he needed to do that in Texas.  I do remember a play that they blamed on Dalton, but I saw Green not get his head turned around in time to track the ball.  I chalked it up to Green being young and inexperienced.  Glad you think Dalton shouldn't get that type of consideration.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-16-2019, 05:37 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I put down a 5 instead of the number next to it... ya got me.  I am a fraud.... 

So his sophomore season he is supposed to be lighting up Houston with the defense they had at the time?

Joseph, Mercilious, Watt, Reed, Crick, Antonio Smith, Barwin, Quinn and Manning.

Oh, he needed to do that in Texas.  I do remember a play that they blamed on Dalton, but I saw Green not get his head turned around in time to track the ball.  I chalked it up to Green being young and inexperienced.  Glad you think Dalton shouldn't get that type of consideration.

How about his 3 picks & 0 TD’s the first Houston game?

To suggest Andy had been anything other than horrendous in ALL 4 playoff games is laughable.

But yeah, it’s just those meany pundits you hate so much not giving him his due lol

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-16-2019, 05:29 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: See...I only made it personal AFTER you did. Telling someone they’re clueless or don’t know what they’re talking about is just as insulting as me calling you a clown. Which you’re acting like. If we go back and look YOU had the initial butthurt over me wanting a new QB to go along with a new OL. Then you started going off on some weird tirade about Mixon out of nowhere...

I haven't said anything about you personally.  I have questioned your ability to provide analysis on football when you are clearly anti-Dalton only because he isn't in the cool kids club.

Feel free to look at some highlight reels on Dalton.  He has made some freaking incredible and accurate throws.  For some reason you just say he is terrible and that Mahomes is better.  I disagree with this sentiment as Mahomes needs to keep up his play from last year.  So far so good, but I doubt you would admit you were wrong if/when the adversity sets in and some of his players drop passes or he ends up throwing more INTs this season than TDs.

I bring up Mixon because many on here want to give him a pass for his poor performance by claiming it is the OLine.  No such consideration for Dalton.  Seems a little biased to me if you can excuse the poor play of one player but then expect another to perform better when they both rely on the same unit for their success.

Are you telling me that Dalton's pass to Ross wasn't impressive?  That wasn't his only good pass like that you know.

[Socal Bengals fan]

(09-16-2019, 05:11 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I would like to see Mahomes deliver a strike when he is getting hit like Dalton:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhCJqtFV8Xg


As to the TD throw:  Dalton did that with Eifert against the Browns on Thursday Night Football.  Check the 1:00 mark after the Browns penalty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXS9ndb4_lc

No one in America besides Fred , osu fan , believes this

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-16-2019, 05:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: How about his 3 picks & 0 TD’s the first Houston game?

To suggest Andy had been anything other than horrendous in ALL 4 playoff games is laughable.

But yeah, it’s just those meany pundits you hate so much not giving him his due lol

Again rookie season in a hostile environment that has a stout defense... must be a terrible player.

I guess you think not having Green or Gresham or a run game against the Colts while the defenders just let Boom Herron run all up and down the field was all Dalton.

To me the only fair game to critique Dalton on was the 3rd game against SD.  8-0 record at home against a team we already beat.  Driving to score a TD before half.  Everything was going well, until Bernard fumbled, then we just stopped using Bernard for some reason.  Must be Dalton.

Green dropped how many passes in that game?  I know of 2. 

2nd playoff game had Gresham drop 2 back to back passes.

So who do you think we should replace Dalton with?  Draft a 1st rounder next year or just roll with Finley?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-16-2019, 05:46 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I haven't said anything about you personally.  I have questioned your ability to provide analysis on football when you are clearly anti-Dalton only because he isn't in the cool kids club.

Feel free to look at some highlight reels on Dalton.  He has made some freaking incredible and accurate throws.  For some reason you just say he is terrible and that Mahomes is better.  I disagree with this sentiment as Mahomes needs to keep up his play from last year.  So far so good, but I doubt you would admit you were wrong if/when the adversity sets in and some of his players drop passes or he ends up throwing more INTs this season than TDs.

I bring up Mixon because many on here want to give him a pass for his poor performance by claiming it is the OLine.  No such consideration for Dalton.  Seems a little biased to me if you can excuse the poor play of one player but then expect another to perform better when they both rely on the same unit for their success.

Are you telling me that Dalton's pass to Ross wasn't impressive?  That wasn't his only good pass like that you know.

Ofc Dalton has made some great throws over the 9 years he’s been in the league lol

Anyone playing at that level has the ability to do so. It’s about how often, and WHEN they make these great throws. And against who.

And I don’t think he’s terrible. I think he’s mediocre. There’s a big difference. He plays the most important position in sports, and I think it’s time to consider trying to upgrade. Simple as that.

Mixon is one of the better RB’s in the league, so I’m not concerned with an upgrade there. Again, simple.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-16-2019, 05:52 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Again rookie season in a hostile environment that has a stout defense... must be a terrible player.

I guess you think not having Green or Gresham or a run game against the Colts while the defenders just let Boom Herron run all up and down the field was all Dalton.

To me the only fair game to critique Dalton on was the 3rd game against SD.  8-0 record at home against a team we already beat.  Driving to score a TD before half.  Everything was going well, until Bernard fumbled, then we just stopped using Bernard for some reason.  Must be Dalton.

Green dropped how many passes in that game?  I know of 2. 

2nd playoff game had Gresham drop 2 back to back passes.

So who do you think we should replace Dalton with?  Draft a 1st rounder next year or just roll with Finley?

I do give him somewhat of a pass for the Colts game. We were decimated.

As to who should replace him? Depends where we pick. If we get a top 5 pick, and there’s a top QB prospect (that Taylor likes) I say go for it. I’m getting a little tired of wasting 1st rounders on scrubs and injured players anyway.

[Murdock2420]

(09-16-2019, 05:14 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Kyle Shanahan is a offensive genius
Coach Lou this is his 1st time as DC
Kyle will out scheme him 10 out of 10 times
The Bengals D won't be see a Kyle Shanahan every week

That struggled to score and move the ball just a week earlier against the Bucs D. 

There is no point in sugar coating this, the team was not prepared and showed the same glaring issues from last season, lack of tackling. If you run the same 11 guys from last year out there, the results will be close to the same.

[*psychdoctor*]

(09-16-2019, 04:54 PM)Andy2AJ Wrote: We need to go 0-16 next yr to get lawerence. Dude is a stud

sorry but Lawerence will not come out until 2021.  

[Socal Bengals fan]

(09-16-2019, 06:24 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: sorry but Lawerence will not come out until 2021.  

He said next year.

[thillan]

(09-16-2019, 05:11 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: I would like to see Mahomes deliver a strike when he is getting hit like Dalton:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhCJqtFV8Xg


As to the TD throw:  Dalton did that with Eifert against the Browns on Thursday Night Football.  Check the 1:00 mark after the Browns penalty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXS9ndb4_lc

I don’t think that Dalton throw matches, he just threw it up. Mahomes was a laser from far away.

But it was a good play, which I hope I’m showing in this convo.. he’s GOOD on best days, but not great. Those terms are relative to everyone though.

Good clip on Daltons throw while getting hit, I’m out right now but I can take a look.