Thoughts after a few weeks...

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-17-2019, 09:07 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Simply, because it is a false statement.  Brady is a system QB that he fits in with and will do everything he can to stay in.

Every post you make only solidifies the belief that you're talking from a place south of your waistline. 

[fortyyearfan]

(09-16-2019, 12:08 AM)thillan Wrote: We all know they weren't going to be good this year, I kinda was expecting 49ers to whoop us.

Anyways..

1. AJ isn't going to save the team. Let him heal.

2. I'm interested in seeing how Preston Brown grades on PFF, because he looks like a disaster to me. If you're MLB is slow, your defense is slow. And man is he getting blown by.

3. I like Ross and his coming out party. I'll always dread that pick for the next 3 that came after him, but he's making it worth something finally. It's fun having our own Tyreek Hill type.

4. OL - They are who we thought they were.

5. DL - Still not sure how to feel about them. My initial reaction is overrated, but I just think the 49ers OL is good.

6. WHY DO WE STILL HAVE DRE KIRKPATRICK. God, I cannot STAND this guy.

7. So.. again, we have an absolute (IMO) awful draft class. Only contribution is a 4th rounder who didn't play well at all today, and an undrafted rookie. Why did we go for Sample in the second? What a waste.

8. I do enjoy ZTs offense more, and do see potential, I just think we severely lack talent. But we have got to find a time to take a chance on an upside QB, Andy just isn't going to cut it. Listened to Chris Simm's podcast, and I agree with his line "Andy Dalton won't win you any games, but he can lose them for you." Of course this isn't all his fault in any shape, but people are so shy about putting too much blame on the QUARTERBACK. That's the leader!

9. Follow up.. I don't even enjoy the upcoming QBs in the draft  

That's all. Not too thrilled to say that another 4 or 5 win season is in the bags, but it is what it is. Hope we can nail the offseason moves and become a competitor again.

Now hear this,we NEED LOTS AND LOTS of new players,there are several on this team that simply cannot play fast enough and do not have the brains to compete. need to go are the following and I know I am leaving some out.number 27,52 68,59,36,most the offensive line,number 14,this so-called team is just awlful and has been put together by has-beens, or poor draft picks.They will not play any better in buffalo.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-17-2019, 11:25 AM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Now hear this,we NEED LOTS AND LOTS of new players,there are several on this team that simply cannot play fast enough and do not have the brains to compete. need to go are the following and I know I am leaving some out.number 27,52 68,59,36,most the offensive line,number 14,this so-called team is just awlful and has been put together by has-beens, or poor draft picks.They will not play any better in buffalo.

Why did i immediately imagine this after reading this post?    

[740Bengal]

1. AJ is going to help ANDY....A LOT.

2. The defense will bounce back this week at Buffalo, Lou will have their attention this week.

3. Ross will continue to improve

4. They are bad, but Andy has got to start stepping up in the pocket, for the life of me I do not understand how he has not done this yet as a veteran QB. Bothers the hell out of me.

5. Need to get after the QB better.

6. DRE is nothing more than a nickel talent.

7. Need GM

8.Dalton needs reps daily with fundamentals, he needs to sharpen up the basics.

9. I like Joe Burrow.

[Catmandude123]

(09-17-2019, 10:14 AM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Yes.  Brady is the type of QB that Bill was work with to make NE a SB team.  Brady bought in and knows that he won't have the same success he would if he were in Arizona, Miami, Cincinnati and for a time Cleveland.  Especially early in his career.

Here is a quick list of "special" QBs that after 1 or 2 years in the league everyone thought they would be SB winners.

Carson Palmer
Donovan McNabb
Donte Culpepper
Michael Vick
Colin Kaepernick
RGIII
Sam Bradford
of course Dan Marino


Here is a quick list of guys that were not  considered anything special after 1 or 2 years in but have won SBs.

Tom Brady
Drew Brees (at the time he was considered injury prone and not short)
Nick Foles
Eli Manning
Joe Flacco
Trent Dilfer
Kurt Warner

QBs that are considered special after 1 or 2 years that have won SBs.

Ben R.
Russell Wilson
Aaron Rodgers

John Elway is the big time outlier.  He was consider special, but he didn't win a SB until very late when people were saying that he should retire.

The first list may not have won any Super Bowls but unlike your boy Dalton, won many play off games

[Hammerstripes]

(09-17-2019, 12:48 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s not just the OL. The defense was atrocious against SF. You won’t win many games giving up 500+ total yds. To no name RB’s at that.

Correct, but if the line plays better and we can actually run the ball, that cuts down on the time and number of possessions that the other team has.

We all knew the same old shit was going to happen this year - nobody can cover a back out of the backfield and nobody can deal with the tight ends and nobody does anything against the screen game.

Once you get some legit speed linebackers who can play in space, things will change.  The 2 biggest weaknesses on this team were addressed in the offseason, but injuries have de-railed the offensive line.  Lack of immediate development has hurt the linebackers.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-17-2019, 02:27 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Correct, but if the line plays better and we can actually run the ball, that cuts down on the time and number of possessions that the other team has.

We all knew the same old shit was going to happen this year - nobody can cover a back out of the backfield and nobody can deal with the tight ends and nobody does anything against the screen game.

Once you get some legit speed linebackers who can play in space, things will change.  The 2 biggest weaknesses on this team were addressed in the offseason, but injuries have de-railed the offensive line.  Lack of immediate development has hurt the linebackers.

Going into the season with 3 mediocre LBers and 1 rookie LB seemed like a bad idea...

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-17-2019, 01:22 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The first list may not have won any Super Bowls but unlike your boy Dalton, won many play off games

So the goal is playoff games!  Got it.  

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-17-2019, 11:12 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: *watches it angle towards the excuses*


Yeah. You're dismissed.

P.S. You are an absolute (insert noun here, which i chose to delete, which indicates a person is not very smart) if you're going to throw what ifs at me (which are hypothetical) and completely ignore actual facts and game play--results that show why one QB is better than the other, in the real world --and then try and say i don't have knowledge or understand nuance, when i showed that i actually do in my previous post.

I obviously have more football knowledge than you could ever hope to have. The only thing you have are excuses and conjecture. 

Bye Felicia

There is a word that describes you pretty well....

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-17-2019, 03:57 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: There is a word that describes you pretty well....

Intelligent

[OswaldsLegacy]

(09-17-2019, 04:22 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Intelligent

Intelligent isn't a word used to describe people who use the phrase "Bye Felicia."  There is a different word that comes to mind.  I see this board has a lot of them.

[fredtoast]

(09-17-2019, 04:21 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: even make the throws necessary to win a game late on a Sunday or Monday night against a playoff quality team. 

Andy actually has not been in that position very often, but he was driving us to a victory against the Texans in 2015 when Green gave the game away with a fumble with 50 seconds left.  Dalton was 6-8 for 66 yards driving us from our own 18 to the Texans 20 with juts 50 seconds left. Can't blame him for another players fumble.

Dalton also drove us to what should have been a victory against the Texans in 2016.  He completed 7 of 8 passes to drive us from our own 15 to the Texan 25 yard line but Bullock shanked the game winning FG on the last play of the game.

Other than those games there have only been 3 other Sunday night or Monday night games that we lost by one score that Andy could have won "late".  Two of those games were actually tied when the Bengal defense gave up drives that ended with game winning FGs on the final play (Cards '15, Steelers '17).  The only other one was against the Giants in '16.  In that game Dalton was sacked twice in a row with 4 minutes left and never got the ball back in a 20-21 loss.

So out of five situations you reference Dalton did his job in two of them, and the defense let him down in two of them.

[*PhilHos*]

If Brady were drafted by the Bengals, he would NEVER be considered the G.O.A.T.

Remember, he was drafted in the 6th Round in 2000. Bruce Coslet was our HC that year. It took 2 injuries for Coslet to realize that Jeff Blake was the best QB on our team. So, assuming Coslet resigns with Brady on the roster, does anyone think that LeBeau would recognize Brady's talent? In all liklihood, Brady would probably languish a few years on our roster and then probably never get a shot with another team because who's going to give a 6th round draft pick a chance that was always a 3rd string QB on a team devoid of QB talent (remember we had Scott Covington and Akili Smith that year).

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-17-2019, 04:32 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: Intelligent isn't a word used to describe people who use the phrase "Bye Felicia."  There is a different word that comes to mind.  I see this board has a lot of them.

Well, i'm sure you're a nice guy in real life because you haven't gone off the deep end on this board yet--despite the backlash you're sure to, and have gotten, with all the Dalton excuses. The problem is, you haven't really shown an ability to understand or accept reality. You say things like Brady is a system QB, which is completely false. A system QB is a guy that can only be successful in a limited system, e.g., a running team that passes when necessary or a WCO that rarely takes deep shots or an RPO--all of them being systems that don't need the QB to throw a lot and have the game put on his shoulders to throw the team back into a game. 

Brady is not a system QB, number one, because Belichick doesn't run a simple, limited system. He runs a very complicated system that requires very smart players and he adapts his game plan week to week to attack the weaknesses of the team he's playing. Along with that, he comes up with wrinkles that his opponents haven't seen, that cause them to be less effective on one or the other--or both--sides of the ball. 

Number two, system QBs don't come in and win a SB their very first year starting and then go on to win 5 more. They don't throw for the number of yards and TDs that Brady has thrown for either. People point to the 11-5 record the Pats had in 2008 with Matt Cassel, yet fail to realize that Cassel was very average that year and failed to make the playoffs, something Brady has never done when winning double digit games in any year. 

On my earlier post, you completely glossed over my example of how different QBs, and the decisions they make, fail or succeed to different levels based on the decisions they make. I'm guessing you meant Sports Center when you said SC, but i guarantee you, you've never seen anyone on SC, ESPN overall or NFLN make that point and since i watch maybe 5 minutes of ESPN in any given week, i couldn't possibly re-spout anything they say--not that i would because most of them don't know their asshole from a hole in the ground. What you did do, was take the very last mini-paragraph i threw in there at the last minute, right before i hit submit and created an entire reply based on that. I don't give 2 shits about Mahommes, but he does things Dalton couldn't do on his very best day. 

You've joined this MB and done the exact same thing every other Dalton supporter does. You talk about how everything else has always been broken around him and if any other QB was here, they would perform the same way and that's completely untrue, based on the example i've given you in the previous paragraph. 'He was handcuffed by Marv...his Oline...no support in the run game...Marv...injuries...dropped passes...Marv...the weather...Marv...'. 

This year, he's been given a new coach and a new offense. His defense played lights out in the first game and he threw for a ton of yards, yet he failed to make throws that lead to a win. That goes directly back to what i said in my previous post; he does enough to be an average NFL starter and can play above avererage with other things being in place, but he still fails to make the throw or throws to vault him in the conversation with all the other top 10 QBs in the league. 

P.S. "bye Felicia" is actually an indicator that as well as knowing what i'm talking about regarding football, i'm also well versed in pop culture--leading to the conclusion that i am, in fact, intelligent. 

P.P.S. I'm sure you will find one or two sentences from this post, that have very little to nothing to do with the main point, and focus on that in your reply since it's much easier than digesting and understanding the point i'm making about QBs. 

[fortyyearfan]

(09-17-2019, 03:55 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: So the goal is playoff games!  Got it.  

I ask anyone,why is Number 59 still on this roster? He is just terrible and ALWAYS gets to the RB after the fact and he is horrible at tackling.Guy needs to go ride off on his horse.Please find some linebackers that can RUN AND TACKLE.THIS team is a big time waste to watch them get hammered.HEY Mr head coach,welcome to the nati :paul: :paul:

[Socal Bengals fan]

(09-17-2019, 05:44 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: I ask anyone,why is Number 59 still on this roster? He is just terrible and ALWAYS gets to the RB after the fact and he is horrible at tackling.Guy needs to go ride off on his horse.Please find some linebackers that can RUN AND TACKLE.THIS team is a big time waste to watch them get hammered.HEY Mr head coach,welcome to the nati :paul: :paul:

59
52
68
23
36

All should be unemployed

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-17-2019, 04:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Andy actually has not been in that position very often, but he was driving us to a victory against the Texans in 2015 when Green gave the game away with a fumble with 50 seconds left.  Dalton was 6-8 for 66 yards driving us from our own 18 to the Texans 20 with juts 50 seconds left. Can't blame him for another players fumble.

Dalton also drove us to what should have been a victory against the Texans in 2016.  He completed 7 of 8 passes to drive us from our own 15 to the Texan 25 yard line but Bullock shanked the game winning FG on the last play of the game.

Other than those games there have only been 3 other Sunday night or Monday night games that we lost by one score that Andy could have won "late".  Two of those games were actually tied when the Bengal defense gave up drives that ended with game winning FGs on the final play (Cards '15, Steelers '17).  The only other one was against the Giants in '16.  In that game Dalton was sacked twice in a row with 4 minutes left and never got the ball back in a 20-21 loss.

So out of five situations you reference Dalton did his job in two of them, and the defense let him down in two of them.

I never have and would never deny that he's been good to great right up to the absolute final drive when he has to make the throws to win the game. I would also not deny that he's put the team in position to win--specifically on the instances you provided--and been let down by someone else. He has been unlucky in a couple of instances, but he's not the most unlucky QB to ever play the game. The very bottom line is, even if only given 2 or 3 actual chances--in actual games he's played--he's failed in each of them to get the job done. 

In the 2015 Cardinals game he had the ball in his hands and missed 2 throws, including one that AJ caught just out of bounds at the goal line and settled for a FG and an eventual loss. In the 2016 Texans game he got the ball back with 3:46 on the clock. During the drive, Core beat his defender and Dalton overthrew him by 2 yards, just like he overthrew Green in the 2nd Texans playoff game, when he was wide open, in the endzone with 3:00 left in the game (exactly the point i continue to make--he misses every time the opportunity is there). At the end of the drive in the '16 Texans game, he made a bad, short throw to Uzo that caused him to go down, in bounds and keep the clock running, forcing Marv to call one more run play(only one TO left), that Burkhead made a huge gain on, before trying the field goal. In the 2017 Steelers game, Ben drove the team down the field on the 2nd to last drive, making throw after throw including the game tying touchdown pass to Brown. Dalton got the ball back with 3:44 left on the clock, missed one pass to Green who was open and then got sacked on 3rd and 5 while having about 3 or 4 seconds to make a decision on who to throw to. Ben got the ball back and completed 3 passes, the first with a defender draped on his receivers back, about 20 yards, and led them down to the game winning FG as time expired. That's exactly what great QBs do. 

Whose to say that another QB doesn't make a different decision on any play during any of those chances and it leads to a TD and a win. That's the point i was making earlier when i gave the example of 3rd and 5 between Andy and Ben. What we know is that Dalton hasn't done it in the actual games he's played while other QBs have in those situations. What we don't know, and can't know, but can surmise based on what another QB has done, is that it is possible that they would have made a different decision somewhere on a drive to win a game. 

Granted, it's all speculation but it's not impossible. With the great QBs it's more probable than improbable. There is no speculation that Dalton has yet, in 8 years and 2 games, to win in that circumstance. 

You can continue to try and minimize the number of chances he's had, or point to how he "did his job" by getting the team in position but you can't deny that when put in position to make the throw or throws to win a game, he's missed every.single.time.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-17-2019, 04:49 PM)PhilHos Wrote: If Brady were drafted by the Bengals, he would NEVER be considered the G.O.A.T.

Remember, he was drafted in the 6th Round in 2000.  Bruce Coslet was our HC that year. It took 2 injuries for Coslet to realize that Jeff Blake was the best QB on our team. So, assuming Coslet resigns with Brady on the roster, does anyone think that LeBeau would recognize Brady's talent? In all liklihood, Brady would probably languish a few years on our roster and then probably never get a shot with another team because who's going to give a 6th round draft pick a chance that was always a 3rd string QB on a team devoid of QB talent (remember we had Scott Covington and Akili Smith that year).

It's unlikely he would have been the GOAT here, given the example you provided, but that doesn't negate his talent and abilities. 

Given those known talents and abilities, you can't guarantee he would have failed here. 

[Brimey]

(09-17-2019, 05:52 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: 59
52
68
23
36

All should be unemployed

Wait, why Phillips? He showed some promise in the preseason

[Catmandude123]

(09-17-2019, 03:55 PM)OswaldsLegacy Wrote: So the goal is playoff games!  Got it.  

I have never seen a team win a super Bowl without winning a playoff game.