Bad drafts and the current state of Bengals

[Catmandude123]

The quality of the team is in direct relationship to the piss poor drafts this team has had. Price , Williams , Ross, Ogbuehi. not contributing is nothing short of ineptitude. What are they going to do differently? Do they have a plan? Is Tobin to blame or are the Family members being counted on to be defacto scouts? Will the Browns ever accept that they need a bona fide GM? Would a GM even consider working for the Bengals? Until we draft better and participate actively in free agency we are DOOMED.

[fredtoast]

[Catmandude123]

(11-01-2019, 01:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote:

I personally would call you Captain Jag off.

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 01:30 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I personally would call you Captain Jag off.

That is interesting because at one time I considered being a JAG Officer.

[bengals1969]

(11-01-2019, 01:20 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The quality of the team is in direct relationship to the piss poor drafts this team has had. Price , Williams , Ross, Ogbuehi. not contributing is nothing short of ineptitude. What are they going to do differently? Do they have a plan? Is Tobin to blame or are the Family members being counted on to be defacto scouts? Will the Browns ever accept that they need a bona fide GM? Would a GM even consider working for the Bengals? Until we draft better and participate actively in free agency we are DOOMED.

The bad drafting tracks with the departure of Zimmer and Gruden.  Later round drafting has found some good players but not nearly enough to make up for the terrible drafting since AJ Green.  That is why I don't condemn the new coaching staff yet, they inherited a mess.  Anybody who entertained the thought of a winning season back in August 2019, suffers from extreme homerism. 
I think the lack of trades for high draft picks is very unfortunate, whatever the reasons.  Their best pieces are 30+ and should have been moved.
I hope we don't see a repeat of the 1990's.

[wildcatnku24]

(11-01-2019, 01:30 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I personally would call you Captain Jag off.

(11-01-2019, 01:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is interesting because at one time I considered being a JAG Officer.

This made me bust out laughing in the middle of my office.  You've won the internet today, Fred.

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 01:39 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I think the lack of trades for high draft picks is very unfortunate, whatever the reasons. 

It takes two teams to trade.  The Bengals can't trade their players for high draft picks unless another team offered them high draft picks for their players.  

Based on the fact that almost none of the worst teams in the league traded away players for high draft picks I don't think there were a lot of teams out there offering high draft picks.

[bengals1969]

(11-01-2019, 01:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It takes two teams to trade.  The Bengals can't trade their players for high draft picks unless another team offered them high draft picks for their players.  

Based on the fact that almost none of the worst teams in the league traded away players for high draft picks I don't think there were a lot of teams out there offering high draft picks.

Thanks for that insight Capt Obvious.
Yeah that's why I said "for whatever the reason".

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 01:39 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I hope we don't see a repeat of the 1990's.

Same here

[wildcatnku24]

(11-01-2019, 01:39 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: The bad drafting tracks with the departure of Zimmer and Gruden.  Later round drafting has found some good players but not nearly enough to make up for the terrible drafting since AJ Green.  That is why I don't condemn the new coaching staff yet, they inherited a mess.  Anybody who entertained the thought of a winning season back in August 2019, suffers from extreme homerism. 
I think the lack of trades for high draft picks is very unfortunate, whatever the reasons.  Their best pieces are 30+ and should have been moved.
I hope we don't see a repeat of the 1990's.

I don't agree with the bolded.  I thought we could pull of a winning season prior to all the injuries.  Heck, with them we've lost most of our games within a score.  I guess I am a Bengals Homer (like almost if not everyone on this board, given that we post on a board of our favorite team), but I don't think it was complete delusion to say we should've been competitive this year.  

I also hope to not see a repeat of the 90's, yikes.  Had it not been for the cool colors and growing up in NKY, I'd have not become a fan since I was only 4 when they last went to the superbowl, and don't remember it.

As far as our drafting, the only pick I thought was insane was John Ross, but even that one showed extreme talent despite its obvious risks.  It's easy to forget how you felt when we drafted a given player versus watching him suck.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2019, 01:20 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: The quality of the team is in direct relationship to the piss poor drafts this team has had. Price , Williams , Ross, Ogbuehi. not contributing is nothing short of ineptitude. What are they going to do differently? Do they have a plan? Is Tobin to blame or are the Family members being counted on to be defacto scouts? Will the Browns ever accept that they need a bona fide GM? Would a GM even consider working for the Bengals? Until we draft better and participate actively in free agency we are DOOMED.

Don't you mention Price being benched and not having Ross and Williams as reasons why Taylor can't be judged on this year?

I don't think you can use them as examples of being bad players and also say that their loss is huge.

[bengals1969]

(11-01-2019, 01:50 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: I don't agree with the bolded.  I thought we could pull of a winning season prior to all the injuries.  Heck, with them we've lost most of our games within a score.  I guess I am a Bengals Homer (like almost if not everyone on this board, given that we post on a board of our favorite team), but I don't think it was complete delusion to say we should've been competitive this year.  

I also hope to not see a repeat of the 90's, yikes.  Had it not been for the cool colors and growing up in NKY, I'd have not become a fan since I was only 4 when they last went to the superbowl, and don't remember it.

As far as our drafting, the only pick I thought was insane was John Ross, but even that one showed extreme talent despite its obvious risks.  It's easy to forget how you felt when we drafted a given player versus watching him suck.

Unfortunately the 1sts haven't produced from various reasons of medical to lack of talent.  Just no Pro Bowl caliber picks from the drafts.   I've learned long ago to not get caught up in the draft day buzz and the "expert" analysis of winners and losers.  
Atkins and Dunlop are over 30 now and best days likely behind them.  AJ as marvelous as he is will start losing a step in the near future, 2 years? 
So the Bengals are faced with a dire situation now.  They have to raise their draft game far higher than they've ever done to have a chance to compete.  I forgive Zak all sorts of game day sins this season if he brings a great nose for draft talent.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2019, 01:57 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: Unfortunately the 1sts haven't produced from various reasons of medical to lack of talent.  Just no Pro Bowl caliber picks from the drafts.   I've learned long ago to not get caught up in the draft day buzz and the "expert" analysis of winners and losers.  
Atkins and Dunlop are over 30 now and best days likely behind them.  AJ as marvelous as he is will start losing a step in the near future, 2 years? 
So the Bengals are faced with a dire situation now.  They have to raise their draft game far higher than they've ever done to have a chance to compete.  I forgive Zak all sorts of game day sins this season if he brings a great nose for draft talent.

Indeed. But, I doubt Taylor is some great talent evaluator.

We need more scouts and a proven GM. There's a reason that the other teams are all structured the way they are.

Look at a guy like Bates though who was really good last year and is really poor this year. That screams of coaching.

[fredtoast]

(11-01-2019, 01:39 PM)bengals1969 Wrote:   Anybody who entertained the thought of a winning season back in August 2019, suffers from extreme homerism.  

I don't know about August, but before we lost Green, Williams, and Boling I expected a winning season.

We won 6 games last year with our starting QB missing half the season.

[bengals1969]

(11-01-2019, 02:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know about August, but before we lost Green, Williams, and Boling I expected a winning season.

We won 6 games last year with our starting QB missing half the season.

The reason I said it was because the offensive line was leftover from last season and bad.  Just bad.  The rook might be a great LT but not his first year.  He went down and Boling retired. 
Next the linebackers were essentially the same as 2018 and league worst or near it. 

Can't run block, Andy gets creamed every game, can't defend play action, running backs on sweeps or catching the ball 10 years down field. 
All that existed coming into the season.  Not much was done to fix it.
So the season had to be tough.  

[Hammerstripes]

(11-01-2019, 01:39 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: The bad drafting tracks with the departure of Zimmer and Gruden.  Later round drafting has found some good players but not nearly enough to make up for the terrible drafting since AJ Green.  That is why I don't condemn the new coaching staff yet, they inherited a mess.  Anybody who entertained the thought of a winning season back in August 2019, suffers from extreme homerism. 
I think the lack of trades for high draft picks is very unfortunate, whatever the reasons.  Their best pieces are 30+ and should have been moved.
I hope we don't see a repeat of the 1990's.

I guess that depends on what you mean by high draft picks.  The reality is that we aren't going to get much for our guys.

AJ - probably could have been moved for a late 1st rounder
Geno - Maybe a 2nd?  Probably more like a 3rd
Dunlap - 3rd/4th rounder
Dalton - 4th rounder

None of those guys make sense to be moved for those picks - especially when the cap savings doesn't mean shit to the Bengals.  I'd much rather not see Geno or Dunlap in another uniform only to see that money go to sign guys like Preston Brown and Bobby Hart.  

[Catmandude123]

(11-01-2019, 01:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Don't you mention Price being benched and not having Ross and Williams as reasons why Taylor can't be judged on this year?

I don't think you can use them as examples of being bad players and also say that their loss is huge.

Don't you mention to me what I can mention. Thanks. Don't mention it.

[Catmandude123]

(11-01-2019, 02:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Indeed. But, I doubt Taylor is some great talent evaluator.

We need more scouts and a proven GM. There's a reason that the other teams are all structured the way they are.

Look at a guy like Bates though who was really good last year and is really poor this year. That screams of coaching.

Seven of the 53 are ZT draft picks. What did you really expect? Those seven were magically going to transform the other 46 into pro bowlers.

[Catmandude123]

(11-01-2019, 01:40 PM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: This made me bust out laughing in the middle of my office.  You've won the internet today, Fred.

In no universe can a jag-off win the internet.

[bengals1969]

(11-01-2019, 02:14 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I guess that depends on what you mean by high draft picks.  The reality is that we aren't going to get much for our guys.

AJ - probably could have been moved for a late 1st rounder
Geno - Maybe a 2nd?  Probably more like a 3rd
Dunlap - 3rd/4th rounder
Dalton - 4th rounder

None of those guys make sense to be moved for those picks - especially when the cap savings doesn't mean shit to the Bengals.  I'd much rather not see Geno or Dunlap in another uniform only to see that money go to sign guys like Preston Brown and Bobby Hart.  

We likely will never know.  Brown obviously thinks the team is competitive "if only" so he's in no mood to rebuild for the future. 
There is a decent chance this team goes 0-16 or 1-15 this season.  They aren't that bad cuz AJ missed half the season.  Boling isn't that big a difference maker. Nor Williams.  They are 0-8 because Oline  are poster boys for NFL league worst.  DB's aren't setting the league on fire either.  Those missing pieces are only developed via the draft and it takes years.  Linebacker might be a devalued group these days but they still matter and ours don't, probably the worst in the league. 
Picking up an extra 1st, 2ed and 3rd last week would give them more chances to get a good to great player or move up in the draft.  I think they are desperate enough they should have tried real hard to make those trades.  Maybe they did and got low balled.  I doubt that but possible.