Veteran Andy > Rookie Joe Burrow

[*bfine32*]

(01-05-2020, 09:57 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Here's Dalton's career average numbers:

Rating - 87.5
Comp. % - 62 %
Yards - 3,510
TD's - 22

2019 numbers: remember in 13 games

Rating - 78.3
Comp % - 59.5 %
Yards - 3,494
TD's - 16

I'm not seeing this massive difference especially - 3 games 

(01-06-2020, 01:13 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You're not really helping your case by showing that his 2019 season rating was nearly 10 points below his career rating. This isn't a debate over which season was a bigger anomaly. The basic point here is that 2019 was an anomaly. Would it kill you to admit that?

To your last line, there's nothing to debate because that's your opinion. I think Dalton is better than the guys I listed, some of which were barely above Dalton in passer rating, despite far better situations (Mayfield comes to mind, among others). His rating - if we accept that it was an anomaly, dragged down by his situation - proves nothing.

I'm gonna go with you're not really sure what an anomaly is. 

You're free to think Dalton is better than those you listed; hell you could probably make a case for Fitz and Winston without folks laughing too hard. 

[Shake n Blake]

(01-06-2020, 01:18 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm gonna go with you're not really sure what an anomaly is. 

You're free to think Dalton is better than those you listed; hell you could probably make a case for Fitz and Winston without folks laughing too hard. 

This is getting childish when we can't admit that Dalton's lowest passer rating - which is 10 points lower than his career rating - is an anomaly.

Deuces.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-06-2020, 01:26 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This is getting childish when we can't admit that Dalton's lowest passer rating - which is 10 points lower than his career rating - is an anomaly.

Deuces.

Shake I'm gonna have to disagree with you here buddy. Dalton's 3 int. 50.1 rating Jacksonville game and 4 int. 39.2 rating NE game brought his overall rating down big time in the 13 game sample. If memory serves several of those pics were just bad throws. It's impossible to say for sure but I'd venture to say had he played weeks 10-12 vs. the Raiders and a Steelers team that couldn't muster any offense either, his rating would have been much closer to his average.

His yards would be over, probably well over and his TD's would most likely been very near norm. Look I'm not trying to dog Dalton out, I've been a pretty big Dalton supporter. But the fact is he's a very average QB. Like whoever said in baseball years ago "there comes a point where you are what the back of your baseball card says you are."

We can come up with dozens of reasons why he has 1 TD 6 int's and an average QB rating of 57.8 and a comp. % of 55.7 in 4 playoff games. And I fully agree, you know that, Dalton was far, very far, from the only problem in those games. That doesn't change the fact though of what his stats are.

Bottom line

The way this team is ran we need a QB better than Dalton to have any chance. Will the next victim fare any better than the previous two ?

[Okeana]

No one wants to see Andy Dalton's awe shucks face again as he smiles his way off the field after screwing up another play. I will take the competitive ever-improving rookie with more potential and a cheaper contract.

[bengaloo]

Andy Dalton minus AJ vs Andy Dalton + AJ have been two completely different animals.

Is Andy minus AJ > Burrow minus AJ? If we dont sign AJ will that be our next big issue? That leaves Boyd or a rookie as our #1 WR. I think we need to sign AJ no matter who is QB before we watch him to to the Pats or Skins and regret losing him much like we did Whitworth.

[Catmandude123]

(01-06-2020, 10:59 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Andy Dalton minus AJ vs Andy Dalton + AJ have been two completely different animals.

Is Andy minus AJ > Burrow minus AJ? If we dont sign AJ will that be our next big issue? That leaves Boyd or a rookie as our #1 WR. I think we need to sign AJ no matter who is QB before we watch him to to the Pats or Skins and regret losing him much like we did Whitworth.

2015 AJ is not the 2020 AJ . Paying him top five WR contract with a lot of guaranteed money could nullify the move of replacing QBS.

[bengalguy71]

FOR THE LAST TIME, AND I MEAN LAST TIME .....

Enough is enough. I can't listen to these couch coaches thinking that a QB is ALL a team needs to bring home a Lombardi!

The OP has this right! FIRST and FOREMOST, he hasn't been DRAFTED YET!!!!

Secondly, there's a whole lot of repair that this team needs to become a champion and QB is just a piece of the puzzle.

If anyone believes that Joe Flacco or Eli Manning could have won a Lombardi with this franchise is a french fry short of a Happy Meal!

If stud QBs were the answer to Lombardis, Flacco, E. Manning, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jim Plunkett, Nick Foles, and Doug Williams would have never won one.

It took Peyton Manning 9 years to win his first SB and another 9 and another team to win his second!!

AGAIN, MB is the ONLY common denominator in this franchise since 1991.

As witnessed over the last few years, and again yesterday, MB had an opportunity to save a small amount of face by not letting Mike Zimmer go and hire him as HC and 'offer' Lewis a GM position!

For those that think Burrow, IF drafted, can come here and single handidly take this franchise to lifting a Lombardi, have been drinking the spiked Kool-Aid!!

Not debating this, just sit back and watch it unfold!!

[Okeana]

(01-06-2020, 11:18 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: FOR THE LAST TIME, AND I MEAN LAST TIME .....

Enough is enough.  I can't listen to these couch coaches thinking that a QB is ALL a team needs to bring home a Lombardi!

The OP has this right!  FIRST and FOREMOST, he hasn't been DRAFTED YET!!!!

Secondly, there's a whole lot of repair that this team needs to become a champion and QB is just a piece of the puzzle.

If anyone believes that Joe Flacco or Eli Manning could have won a Lombardi with this franchise is a french fry short of a Happy Meal!

If stud QBs were the answer to Lombardis, Flacco, E. Manning, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jim Plunkett, Nick Foles, and Doug Williams would have never won one.

It took Peyton Manning 9 years to win his first SB and another 9 and another team to win his second!!

AGAIN, MB is the ONLY common denominator in this franchise since 1991.

As witnessed over the last few years, and again yesterday, MB had an opportunity to save a small amount of face by not letting Mike Zimmer go and hire him as HC and 'offer' Lewis a GM position!

For those that think Burrow, IF drafted, can come here and single handidly take this franchise to lifting a Lombardi, have been drinking the spiked Kool-Aid!!

Not debating this, just sit back and watch it unfold!!

This entire post was like watching a 5-year-old stomp his feet into a couch.  If you're a fan of the team you don't ignore positions of value or growth because of the Mike Brown excuse.  Just because your owner sucks doesn't mean if your drafting #1 that doesn't mean you throw up your arms and stick with Dalton.  So keep playing the victim with your magic ball and cry in the corner.  

[Catmandude123]

(01-06-2020, 11:18 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: FOR THE LAST TIME, AND I MEAN LAST TIME .....

Enough is enough.  I can't listen to these couch coaches thinking that a QB is ALL a team needs to bring home a Lombardi!

The OP has this right!  FIRST and FOREMOST, he hasn't been DRAFTED YET!!!!

Secondly, there's a whole lot of repair that this team needs to become a champion and QB is just a piece of the puzzle.

If anyone believes that Joe Flacco or Eli Manning could have won a Lombardi with this franchise is a french fry short of a Happy Meal!

If stud QBs were the answer to Lombardis, Flacco, E. Manning, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jim Plunkett, Nick Foles, and Doug Williams would have never won one.

It took Peyton Manning 9 years to win his first SB and another 9 and another team to win his second!!

AGAIN, MB is the ONLY common denominator in this franchise since 1991.

As witnessed over the last few years, and again yesterday, MB had an opportunity to save a small amount of face by not letting Mike Zimmer go and hire him as HC and 'offer' Lewis a GM position!

For those that think Burrow, IF drafted, can come here and single handidly take this franchise to lifting a Lombardi, have been drinking the spiked Kool-Aid!!

Not debating this, just sit back and watch it unfold!!

No one ever said the team didn't have problems but the QB position is the hardest to fix. While I know you and the rest of the Dalton Gang don't want to face the future without an under preforming perennial loser the rest of us want to see change. It is not realistic to think you can keep the same players year after year and tie up your salary cap so you can't compete for top FAs .I know we are crippled with MB but by refusing to give him money until he changes is better than doing what he has repeated year after year. Bengals fans deserve better . Boycott until changes are made!!!

[bengalguy71]

(01-06-2020, 11:54 AM)Okeana Wrote: This entire post was like watching a 5-year-old stomp his feet into a couch.  If you're a fan of the team you don't ignore positions of value or growth because of the Mike Brown excuse.  Just because your owner sucks doesn't mean if your drafting #1 that doesn't mean you throw up your arms and stick with Dalton.  So keep playing the victim with your magic ball and cry in the corner.  

His track record speaks for itself.  I have said it ad nauseum, I was ALWAYS a PB fan!  He created the Browns, and from the age of 10-15, I WAS a Browns fan.

I converted to the Bengals when PB gave Cleveland the finger, and birthed the Bengals in 1968.

I will ALWAYS be a Bengals fan, be it up close or far away, but after 29 years of watching MB operate, I choose to ‘hope for the best, but expect the worst’ as long as he has the last choice in decisions as the owner.

Until something happens to prove any different, that’s how I’ll ride each season.

Yes, I could wish in one hand, and crap in the other to see which one fills up quickest, but I choose to forgo.

BTW, the REAL Browns franchise, the House PB built, is in Baltimore, with the second best franchise in the NFL, including the second best coach in the NFL, and will probably win its 3rd Lombardi next month!

[bengalguy71]

(01-06-2020, 01:08 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: No one ever said the team didn't have problems but the QB position is the hardest to fix. While I know you and the rest of the Dalton Gang don't want to face the future without an under preforming perennial loser the rest of us want to see change. It is not realistic to think you can keep the same players year after year and tie up your salary cap so you can't compete for top FAs .I know we are crippled with MB but by refusing to give him money until he changes is better than doing what he has repeated year after year. Bengals fans deserve better . Boycott until changes are made!!!

Boycott?      Too many fans that live and breathe football to let that happen.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-06-2020, 11:18 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: FOR THE LAST TIME, AND I MEAN LAST TIME .....

Enough is enough.  I can't listen to these couch coaches thinking that a QB is ALL a team needs to bring home a Lombardi!

For the last time nobody, and I mean nobody thinks drafting a QB at #1 magically solves all this teams problems.

Why do so many people keep 

[*ochocincos*]

Honestly, it doesn't really matter if Joe Burrow is worse than Dalton for 2020.
I say this because the team as a whole had 2 wins all season.
With Dalton starting all 16 games, they maybe have 2 more wins.
That's still nowhere near the playoffs.

Also, removing Dalton should free up plenty of cap to go get 1-2 good players to help bolster the team as a whole.

I'd take the potential of Burrow + 1-2 good FAs over rolling with Dalton in 2020.

[*bfine32*]

(01-06-2020, 02:16 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: For the last time nobody, and I mean nobody thinks drafting a QB at #1 magically solves all this teams problems.

Why do so many people keep 

You mean folks aren't saying: Do nothing if FA, draft Burrow #1OA, forfeit the rest of our draft picks, and we will get to the Super Bowl?!?!?

I too have not seen anyone suggest this, but someone HAS to be doing it as often as I see it being rebutted.

[bengalguy71]

(01-06-2020, 02:16 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: For the last time nobody, and I mean nobody thinks drafting a QB at #1 magically solves all this teams problems.

Why do so many people keep 

Come on bf74!  You can say 'very few or only some who are ignant', but NOT 'nobody'???  You don't have to scour these threads to see that there ARE folk in here that BELIEVE AND EXPECT a Lombardi NLT 2025!

[bengalguy71]

(01-06-2020, 02:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You mean folks aren't saying: Do nothing if FA, draft Burrow #1OA, forfeit the rest of our draft picks, and we will get to the Super Bowl?!?!?

I too have not seen anyone suggest this, but someone HAS to be doing it as often as I see it being rebutted.

Nice sarcasm bf!  Of course no one has said this, but see my post to bf74.  Get real!!

[Luvnit2]

(01-06-2020, 02:24 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Honestly, it doesn't really matter if Joe Burrow is worse than Dalton for 2020.
I say this because the team as a whole had 2 wins all season.
With Dalton starting all 16 games, they maybe have 2 more wins.
That's still nowhere near the playoffs.

Also, removing Dalton should free up plenty of cap to go get 1-2 good players to help bolster the team as a whole.

I'd take the potential of Burrow + 1-2 good FAs over rolling with Dalton in 2020.

Bfine is the only one I have seen promoting keeping AD when we draft Burrow.

The rest of us agree, draft Burrow and then trade AD. But, some also think dramatic improvement from a 2 win team witha rookie albeit long term franchise QB possibility will not help us as much in 2020 as many want to believe. If we go from 2 wins to 6 that is great improvement, but is that enough?

I think that is the question, setting realistic expectations as this forum has a record of trashing 1st round picks if they are not world beaters year #1.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(01-06-2020, 11:18 AM)bengalguy71 Wrote: FOR THE LAST TIME, AND I MEAN LAST TIME .....

Enough is enough.  I can't listen to these couch coaches thinking that a QB is ALL a team needs to bring home a Lombardi!

The OP has this right!  FIRST and FOREMOST, he hasn't been DRAFTED YET!!!!

Secondly, there's a whole lot of repair that this team needs to become a champion and QB is just a piece of the puzzle.

If anyone believes that Joe Flacco or Eli Manning could have won a Lombardi with this franchise is a french fry short of a Happy Meal!

If stud QBs were the answer to Lombardis, Flacco, E. Manning, Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jim Plunkett, Nick Foles, and Doug Williams would have never won one.

It took Peyton Manning 9 years to win his first SB and another 9 and another team to win his second!!

AGAIN, MB is the ONLY common denominator in this franchise since 1991.

As witnessed over the last few years, and again yesterday, MB had an opportunity to save a small amount of face by not letting Mike Zimmer go and hire him as HC and 'offer' Lewis a GM position!

For those that think Burrow, IF drafted, can come here and single handidly take this franchise to lifting a Lombardi, have been drinking the spiked Kool-Aid!!

Not debating this, just sit back and watch it unfold!!

I'm not that optimistic but a QB can will a team to a playoff victory before I die. Just hope he isn't a Carson Wentz or a Kirk Cousins that's Burrow's  floor IMO

[Mike M (the other one)]

(01-04-2020, 04:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Same ones saying Burrow will solve all our problems in 2020 were saying no way ZT loses more games than ML the previous year.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001094208/article/cowboys-interview-mike-mccarthy-marvin-lewis
They also said ML would never coach again.

Seriously, it is a lot of same posters.

Who has said Burrow is the answer to all of our problems?

I believe most have said he is a step in the right direction. Of course other things need fixing too, like that pitiful OL. I really hate blanket statements.

[Luvnit2]

(01-06-2020, 03:17 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Who has said Burrow is the answer to all of our problems?

I believe most have said he is a step in the right direction. Of course other things need fixing too, like that pitiful OL. I really hate blanket statements.

So your argument is noone was saying ZT would fix our problems???????????????

How did that work out so far?