Palmer v Burrow

[bengals67]

I would like to get some comments from many of the folks on the board who have a better memory than me ( and know a lot more)

I am not one to bad mouth Carson. He was a tremendous young QB when he started with the Bengals.  I understand why he was frustrated with Mike Brown. Same reasons that many of us are frustrated with Mike Brown.

But do I recall correctly that some of the scouting reports on Palmer coming out of college questioned whether he had the best leadership personality?

Leadership and confidence seem to be two of the major qualities I am reading about Burrow.

Is it possible that Burrow has the "it" quality that Carson lacked?

Thoughts?

[MEBengalsFan]

(02-18-2020, 11:29 AM)bengals67 Wrote: I would like to get some comments from many of the folks on the board who have a better memory than me ( and know a lot more)

I am not one to bad mouth Carson. He was a tremendous young QB when he started with the Bengals.  I understand why he was frustrated with Mike Brown. Same reasons that many of us are frustrated with Mike Brown.

But do I recall correctly that some of the scouting reports on Palmer coming out of college questioned whether he had the best leadership personality?

Leadership and confidence seem to be two of the major qualities I am reading about Burrow.

Is it possible that Burrow has the "it" quality that Carson lacked?

Thoughts?

Dalton had that it factor but couldn't get his actual game to the next level without a strong supporting cast around him. 

I don't know how Burrow will be here because LSU had one of the best D, one of the best OL and strong supporting cast for him to achieve his success. Yes there were times it was on Burrow to make the play but he didn't achieve that success alone. It was a team effort. 

Looking at Dalton his bad years the team lacked any true burner to open up the field, the OL was horrible and simply couldn't block, etc... the years the team had solid OL play, strong to decent D, Dalton performed well enough to get his team to the playoffs. Again the team failed in the playoffs because failure by the team should never be put on one player; everyone has a chance to make that difference between a win or a loss. Missing filed goals, failing a block, a RB that doesn't hit the hole to get the gain, etc... 

As for CP vs. Burrow; CP was a quiet leader. As he aged he started to be more vocal. The more vocal excited QB who take leadership roles early tend to have success earlier and continue that in their career. QB that hold every member accountable for their mistakes also seem to have better success. Brady and Manning are prime examples of players who were not only vocal but also held team mates accountable for their mistakes have had long and productive careers. 

For me CP and Dalton don't seem to use their leadership make team mates accountable for their mistakes, which has had a negative impact on the team ability to get a playoff win. 

Both offense and defense needs a leader that makes their team mates aware of the mistakes and work with their team mates to correct them. On the offensive side of the ball it is typically the QB job and if it falls to another player the team doesn't gel and tends not to get the wins. 

As for the D; it use to be the MLB that did this; now it seems as if this is now falling into the hands of the defensive backs. 

Burrow ability to lead will be welcomed. Hopefully he can be vocal and make everyone on the offense accountable for their mistakes to help improve the team and get the offense to gel if Burrow is drafted by the Bengals. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

LSU did not have one of the best OL’s. Repeating it enough doesn’t make it true.

[Pat5775]

https://youtu.be/KNj1wQqy5S8

Looking back, this makes a lot of sense

[Au165]

The "It" factor is often the thing that separates the top guys from the rest. Many very talented QB's have come out and failed while other less heralded guys have succeeded because they just had "It". Palmer was never the ultra aggressive vocal leader that it appears Burrow may be. There is a certain confidence Burrow carries that people have compared to a Tom Brady that is interesting. You never know though, that's why drafting QB's is such a hard thing to do, because a lot of times it's everything else besides ability that determines their success.

[bengals67]

(02-18-2020, 12:39 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: https://youtu.be/KNj1wQqy5S8

Looking back, this makes a lot of sense

This is exactly what I was struggling to remember.

If this guy is still around, I wonder what he thinks of Burrow.

Great post! Thanks very much!!!

[Murdock2420]

(02-18-2020, 01:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: The "It" factor is often the thing that separates the top guys from the rest. Many very talented QB's have come out and failed while other less heralded guys have succeeded because they just had "It". Palmer was never the ultra aggressive vocal leader that it appears Burrow may be. There is a certain confidence Burrow carries that people have compared to a Tom Brady that is interesting. You never know though, that's why drafting QB's is such a hard thing to do, because a lot of times it's everything else besides ability that determines their success.

Have to be careful being the ultra vocal guy as a rookie. Get guys who have been in the league for years that may not appreciate a guy with 0 NFL snaps going after them. 

It is a unique position of having to be a leader and know which guys you just have to lead by example and which guys you can bark at.

[*Nately120*]

(02-18-2020, 01:21 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Have to be careful being the ultra vocal guy as a rookie. Get guys who have been in the league for years that may not appreciate a guy with 0 NFL snaps going after them. 

It is a unique position of having to be a leader and know which guys you just have to lead by example and which guys you can bark at.

It'll be interesting to see what Burrow does.  He idolized Brees and I don't think Brews is the kind of guy to do a lot of screaming, rather he leads by example. 

[jj22]

Palmer couldn't hold Dalton's jock record and success wise here. So not sure why we are skipping over Dalton to compare any new QB to Palmer. It's Dalton they have to live up to, fill and surpass the shoes of.

Palmer was long left in the dust by what Dalton was able to accomplish here. That's why he's mad. Surpassed by a 2nd round pick. Comedy.

[Au165]

(02-18-2020, 01:21 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Have to be careful being the ultra vocal guy as a rookie. Get guys who have been in the league for years that may not appreciate a guy with 0 NFL snaps going after them. 

It is a unique position of having to be a leader and know which guys you just have to lead by example and which guys you can bark at.

QB is the one position you get away with it. The thing is you have to deliver though. Guys see through people who are doing it as an act and those who actually believe it. One of the knocks on Mayfield has been that his ultra vocal persona is a bit of an act as he doesn't show that same leadership in his preparation and demeanor inside the building.

[*Nately120*]

(02-18-2020, 01:40 PM)jj22 Wrote: Palmer couldn't hold Dalton's jock record and success wise here. So not sure why we are skipping over Dalton to compare any new QB to Palmer. It's Dalton they have to live up to, fill and surpass the shoes of.

Palmer was long left in the dust by what Dalton was able to accomplish here. That's why he's mad. Surpassed by a 2nd round pick. Comedy.

Can't be too nice to Dalton since we are voluntarily moving on from him. 

[Sled21]

Carson? Who's she?

[Hammerstripes]

(02-18-2020, 01:40 PM)jj22 Wrote: Palmer couldn't hold Dalton's jock record and success wise here. So not sure why we are skipping over Dalton to compare any new QB to Palmer. It's Dalton they have to live up to, fill and surpass the shoes of.

Palmer was long left in the dust by what Dalton was able to accomplish here. That's why he's mad. Surpassed by a 2nd round pick. Comedy.

LOL.  That's not exactly accurate.  

[*Nately120*]

(02-18-2020, 01:52 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Carson? Who's she?

Now that women are fighting and dying for this country can we retire "you are a female" from the list of insults?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-18-2020, 02:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Now that women are fighting and dying for this country can we retire "you are a female" from the list of insults?

Been picking on you this morning, but I appreciate this post. My wife who is an army veteran that served in Iraq would, too.

[*Nately120*]

(02-18-2020, 02:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Been picking on you this morning, but I appreciate this post. My wife who is an army veteran that served in Iraq would, too.

It's fun to kill time, though.  

[higgy100]

(02-18-2020, 12:19 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: LSU did not have one of the best OL’s. Repeating it enough doesn’t make it true.

Yep and Burrow also made a TON of eye-popping plays...To put the ball almost every single time over a 3-4 month period where it needs to be is ridiculous even if there are NO OL or DL playing...

[jj22]

(02-18-2020, 02:09 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: LOL.  That's not exactly accurate.  

Palmers success here compared to Daltons?

Let's just say our new QB hopefully surpasses Daltons. If he surpasses Palmers than he may only reach Daltons heights.

[*Nately120*]

(02-18-2020, 02:20 PM)jj22 Wrote: Palmers success here compared to Daltons?

Let's just say our new QB hopefully surpasses Daltons. If he surpasses Palmers than he may only reach Daltons heights.

Palmer didn't have 4 straight losing seasons or a 2-14 season here, either.  

Disclaimer - I defend them both here. Oh and I'll defend Burrow if he never brings the Lombardi home, too.

[jj22]

(02-18-2020, 02:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Palmer didn't have 4 straight losing seasons or a 2-14 season here, either.  

3 losing seasons total in 9 years as he left 2018 injured with a winning record.

Palmer had what? 3 too? Maybe 2. But winning seasons. Playoff appearances. Anyone want to discuss that comparison? Because that's what matters.

The new QB trying to match Palmers 8-8 seasons isn't going to change much around here. He's got to match and surpass Daltons 5 straight playoff appearances (with some wins) etc. That should be the goal. Not 2 playoff appearances in 9 years and a bunch of 8-8 seasons.