Palmer v Burrow

[*Nately120*]

(02-18-2020, 02:28 PM)jj22 Wrote: 3 losing seasons total as he left 2018 injured with a non losing season.

Palmer had what? 3 too? Maybe 2. But winning seasons. Playoff appearances. Anyone want to discuss that comparison?

Im just saying Dalton. Was at the helm for higher highs and lower lows in stripes.  They were both subject to some questionable coaches and the Mike brown way though. 

[jj22]

And Palmer is just mad he can't claim the Bengals fell apart without him. They improved.

That's all that is. And Dalton never got the FA signings he got (and complains about). We have to call it like it is with Palmer. A scorned ex who is mad the ex upgraded, and waits until the ex is single again to attack and fault them for the failures of their past relationship.

You see he was quiet during Daltons run.

[*jason*]

(02-18-2020, 01:21 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Have to be careful being the ultra vocal guy as a rookie. Get guys who have been in the league for years that may not appreciate a guy with 0 NFL snaps going after them. 

It is a unique position of having to be a leader and know which guys you just have to lead by example and which guys you can bark at.

Andrew Luck's first words in the Colts huddle were "Everybody shut the **** up.".

[Yojimbo]

The problem both Palmer and to a lesser extent Dalton, but he’s definitely had his moments, is when the pressure gets cranked up, they play their worst. The “it” factor I’m looking for is what guys like Brees and Brady have, and younger guys like Mahomes and Watson are showing, the higher the pressure, the better they play.

[*Nately120*]

(02-18-2020, 02:50 PM)jason Wrote: Andrew Luck's first words in the Colts huddle were "Everybody shut the **** up.".

No wonder his o line let him get pummeled into an early retirement. 

['E']

What Burrow displayed at LSU, was an energy that winning was the only option for him and he did that by example. Burrow is not a screamer as far as I can tell, but he does not give up on plays easily and will often choose to give his teammates a chance to make a play rather than taking the safe route on nearly every play. I think that teammates knowing that he is back there looking to extend a play will follow suit by staying on their blocks longer and looking to get open to give him a target to throw to. I think that part of Dalton's issues here was that Gruden beat it into his head to get the ball out as soon as possible which led to more throws out of bounds which in turn, led to receivers giving up on plays sooner because one way or another the ball was going to be out in x amount of time. Burrow also radiates confidence, and I think that players gravitate towards that and feed off of it as long as the guy with said confidence can back it up with results. Palmer lived mostly on his physical gifts while Burrow is stronger on the intangibles.
It will be interesting to see how Burrow translates to the NFL game.

[XenoMorph]

(02-18-2020, 02:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Im just saying Dalton. Was at the helm for higher highs and lower lows in stripes.  They were both subject to some questionable coaches and the Mike brown way though. 

will say while we thought Bratkowski had grown stale... Palmer still only ever had 1 OC...… while here at least.  coaching issues with those teams were often on defense.

Daltons first 2 OCs were so good they got promoted... Then after that we have failed with the last 3.

[2MinutesHate]

I was always a palmer fan, but at this point I believe he is simply trying to ruin the Bengals' chances of turning things around. If he had such a problem, why didn't he say anything to Dalton when he was drafted or even before Andy's last contract extension?

It's a personal vendetta against the Bengals and he will never be welcomed back in Paul Brown stadium or much less in the city where he spent a fair amount of time and where his children made their first friends.

I hope it was worth it to him since he never did get that ring.

[*Nately120*]

(02-18-2020, 03:34 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: will say while we thought Bratkowski had grown stale... Palmer still only ever had 1 OC...… while here at least.  coaching issues with those teams were often on defense.

Daltons first 2 OCs were so good they got promoted... Then after that we have failed with the last 3.

Yeah Dalton signed a team friendly deal and they hung him out to dry in terms of the coaching and o line.  Oof

[*Nately120*]

(02-18-2020, 03:50 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I was always a palmer fan, but at this point I believe he is simply trying to ruin the Bengals' chances of turning things around.  If he had such a problem, why didn't he say anything to Dalton when he was drafted or even before Andy's last contract extension?  

It's a personal vendetta against the Bengals and he will never be welcomed back in Paul Brown stadium or much less in the city where he spent a fair amount of time and where his children made their first friends.

I hope it was worth it to him since he never did get that ring

In a fairness it makes more sense he's talking about the Bengals now that he's retired.  For whst it's worth he's in the Cardinals ring of honor and got some back pats from Larry Fitzgerald so I can't imagine he's knocking on the door of Paul brown stadium.

It'll be interesting to see if Dalton is Mr Cincy if he spends significant time with another team after this.  If Dalton and Green don't get into our ring of honor then it seems like we aren't that interested in having MB-era guys honored. 

He didn't win a ring without us and we didn't win a ring without him. Life goes on and Burrow is the next man up.

[Hammerstripes]

(02-18-2020, 02:33 PM)jj22 Wrote: And Palmer is just mad he can't claim the Bengals fell apart without him. They improved.

That's all that is. And Dalton never got the FA signings he got (and complains about). We have to call it like it is with Palmer. A scorned ex who is mad the ex upgraded, and waits until the ex is single again to attack and fault them for the failures of their past relationship.

You see he was quiet during Daltons run.

Won't disagree with this, however I really would have loved to see what Palmer would have done with AJ Green.

[jj22]

(02-18-2020, 04:45 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Won't disagree with this, however I really would have loved to see what Palmer would have done with AJ Green.

Well that depends if you think AJ (MJ, Sanu) was better than Ocho (TJ, Henry).

That's a whole nother thread tho.

[*bengalfan74*]

(02-18-2020, 04:45 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Won't disagree with this, however I really would have loved to see what Palmer would have done with AJ Green.

Yes and I'll always wonder what might have happened here had Palmer not had his knee blown up ?

[motoarch]

(02-18-2020, 02:28 PM)jj22 Wrote: 3 losing seasons total in 9 years as he left 2018 injured with a winning record.

Palmer had what? 3 too? Maybe 2. But winning seasons. Playoff appearances. Anyone want to discuss that comparison? Because that's what matters.

The new QB trying to match Palmers 8-8 seasons isn't going to change much around here. He's got to match and surpass Daltons 5 straight playoff appearances (with some wins) etc. That should be the goal. Not 2 playoff appearances in 9 years and a bunch of 8-8 seasons.

I honestly believe if Palmer doesn't get rolled on the first play of the game Cincinnati gos on to beat the Steelers and win a Superbowl that year.  I think the team and plamer were that good but we'll never know.

One thing we do know is Dalton played terrible in every playoff game he was in.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-18-2020, 11:29 AM)bengals67 Wrote: I would like to get some comments from many of the folks on the board who have a better memory than me ( and know a lot more)

I am not one to bad mouth Carson. He was a tremendous young QB when he started with the Bengals.  I understand why he was frustrated with Mike Brown. Same reasons that many of us are frustrated with Mike Brown.

But do I recall correctly that some of the scouting reports on Palmer coming out of college questioned whether he had the best leadership personality?

Leadership and confidence seem to be two of the major qualities I am reading about Burrow.

Is it possible that Burrow has the "it" quality that Carson lacked?

Thoughts?

There was a sports psychologist that used to "scout" players by their personalities. I don't remember the exact quote, but he said Palmer would never win a championship basically because he showed mental weakness.

[Shake n Blake]

(02-18-2020, 12:39 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: https://youtu.be/KNj1wQqy5S8

Looking back, this makes a lot of sense

Ah. You beat me to it. That guy wound up being spot on.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-18-2020, 01:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: The "It" factor is often the thing that separates the top guys from the rest. Many very talented QB's have come out and failed while other less heralded guys have succeeded because they just had "It". Palmer was never the ultra aggressive vocal leader that it appears Burrow may be. There is a certain confidence Burrow carries that people have compared to a Tom Brady that is interesting. You never know though, that's why drafting QB's is such a hard thing to do, because a lot of times it's everything else besides ability that determines their success.

Yeah, we don't need no Bo Callahan round here.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-18-2020, 02:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Im just saying Dalton. Was at the helm for higher highs and lower lows in stripes.  They were both subject to some questionable coaches and the Mike brown way though. 

Was he though?  The excitement heading into the Wildcard Game in 2005 was every bit as high as the excitement of heading into the Wildcard Game in 2015.  Sure, 2-14 is an ugly blemish, but I think that expectations were much higher, going into that 4-12 season of 2010.  He had the T-Ocho show at WR, Cedric Benson gained nearly 1,300 yards from scrimmage that year, for crying out loud.  This was after the scrappy 2009 season that nobody expected much from the team.  Palmer was by far the bigger flop in the Carson/Andy failure contest.

Let's not forget, we don't affectionately refer to him as Pick6 Palmer for nothin'...

[*Nately120*]

(02-18-2020, 07:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Was he though?  The excitement heading into the Wildcard Game in 2005 was every bit as high as the excitement of heading into the Wildcard Game in 2015.  Sure, 2-14 is an ugly blemish, but I think that expectations were much higher, going into that 4-12 season of 2010.  He had the T-Ocho show at WR, Cedric Benson gained nearly 1,300 yards from scrimmage that year, for crying out loud.  This was after the scrappy 2009 season that nobody expected much from the team.  Palmer was by far the bigger flop in the Carson/Andy failure contest.

Let's not forget, we don't affectionately refer to him as Pick6 Palmer for nothin'...

Stuff like that is up for suggestion and personal preference in regards to feelings of hype and disappointment.  I was freaking out about 2010 as soon as I saw our schedule and admitted 2009 was a bit of a luckfest.

I meant more like Dalton being the QB for 5 straight winning seasons but also being the QB for 4 straight losing seasons.  Dalton has a winning record as a QB here, but he also has a 2-14 season on his resume.  That's what I mean about highs and lows.  I'd say Palmer's biggest flop was the 2012 Raiders (but hey, he beat the Steelers for us!) and like Dalton's 2019 flop he had a slew of bad coaches and he was a lame duck QB on an issue-riddle franchise that was ready for a reboot.

Just my 2 cents.  I think Dalton and Palmer would actually have some camaraderie being Bengals QBs rather than this sort of rivalry we keep trying to invent.

[SunsetBengal]

(02-18-2020, 07:29 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Stuff like that is up for suggestion and personal preference in regards to feelings of hype and disappointment.  I was freaking out about 2010 as soon as I saw our schedule and admitted 2009 was a bit of a luckfest.

I meant more like Dalton being the QB for 5 straight winning seasons but also being the QB for 4 straight losing seasons.  Dalton has a winning record as a QB here, but he also has a 2-14 season on his resume.  That's what I mean about highs and lows.  I'd say Palmer's biggest flop was the 2012 Raiders (but hey, he beat the Steelers for us!) and like Dalton's 2019 flop he had a slew of bad coaches and he was a lame duck QB on an issue-riddle franchise that was ready for a reboot.

Just my 2 cents.  I think Dalton and Palmer would actually have some camaraderie being Bengals QBs rather than this sort of rivalry we keep trying to invent.

When you consider the roster losses alone, going from 2015 to 2016 and forward, 7-9 in 2016 seems like more of a miracle job at QB by Andy, than anything.

Anyway, we can agree to differ on this, as I completely respect your opinions.