Palmer v Burrow

[jj22]

I don't know what they mean. It was only 2 playoff seasons in 9 years. How hard is it to get the years right?

They seem to remember the 5 in 9 under Dalton without issue.

If they prefer only having 2 winning seasons in 9 years, the least they can do is remember them.

Maybe they are confused by adding and pointing to Arizona's record with Carson's to attack Dalton.

And enough with the "we would have won without the injury in 2015" Fake News. We wouldn't have gotten past the Colts who had already lit us up earlier in the year. If you need revisionist, what if, and shoulda coulda woulda history to boost Palmer in the debate to make his era here better than Daltons then that is saying all that needs to be said.

You don't see Dalton getting all those excuses.

Regardless of the spin, I maintain I hope Burrow leads us to greater heights then Dalton. The only QB in this generation he has to fill and surpass the shoes of.

[Housh]

(02-21-2020, 10:54 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: do you mean 2005? cause we didn't make the 2006 playoffs..

Whatever Pittsburg was

[bengaloo]

Palmer was a gun-slinger and Dalton is a blue collar QB. Dalton was more of a winner here and had a better demeanor but neither one of them really had that winning edge about them. Neither were cool under pressure or had the ability to improvise if a play broke down.

Burrow is going to make us all forget Carson Palmer was ever a Bengal. I think Carson fears this and thats part of why his ego has been acting out.

[Housh]

(02-21-2020, 10:57 AM)jj22 Wrote: I don't know what they mean. It was only 2 playoff seasons in 9 years. How hard is it to get the years right?

They seem to remember the 5 in 9 under Dalton without issue.

If they prefer only having 2 winning seasons in 9 years, the least they can do is remember them.

Maybe they are confused by adding and pointing to Arizona's record with Carson's to attack Dalton.

And enough with the "we would have won without the injury in 2015" Fake News. We wouldn't have gotten past the Colts who had already lit us up earlier in the year. If you need revisionist, what if, and shoulda coulda woulda history to boost Palmer in the debate to make his era here better than Daltons then that is saying all that needs to be said.

You don't see Dalton getting all those excuses.

Regardless of the spin, I maintain I hope Burrow leads us to greater heights then Dalton. The only QB in this generation he has to fill and surpass the shoes of.

I think I’m terms of “success” it’s a wash. You can’t put either against the other success wise. Carson only made playoffs once in 9 years but is that really that much worse than making it 5 times and in 4-5 of the times being absolute and utter dog crap? And the one playoff game you miss your backup almost carries the team to a playoff win?



I think we need to go by the eye test on this one and Dalton was more mobile and gets a slick 3r down run here and there that Carson never got but Carson was just a better QB. With the defenses Andy had, if we had Carson those years we made playoffs I truly feel we have a ring by now.


P.S. I agree this board overuses the 2005 playoff game to help Carson’s legacy. At some point we gotta accept Carson was a great talent but at no point was he the best QB in the league and he wasn’t a winner. Me selecting him over Andy is nothing but a recognition of his talent and me playing the mathematics

[Housh]

(02-21-2020, 11:16 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Palmer was a gun-slinger and Dalton is a blue collar QB. Dalton was more of a winner here and had a better demeanor but neither one of them really had that winning edge about them. Neither were cool under pressure or had the ability to improvise if a play broke down.

Burrow is going to make us all forget Carson Palmer was ever a Bengal. I think Carson fears this and thats part of why his ego has been acting out.

To me this is obvious. He never had this smoke for Andy

[Big Boss]

Palmer was the more elite talent, but I think Dalton displayed better overall consistency.

The fact remains that Palmer left and we went to the playoffs five straight years with his successor. Maybe Palmer would have succeeded just as much with those 2011-2015 squads, maybe not. We can play the "what if" game til we're blue in the face, but I think it's a bit silly for Palmer to assert that this team isn't dedicated to winning when they saw sustained post-season appearances after he left. And it's like Willie Anderson said. All of those playoff losses boil down to poor on-the-field execution by the coaches and players. Mike Brown doesn't shoulder that blame.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-21-2020, 03:41 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: Had Palmer not of been injured in that playoff game they would have won.  Palmer is not responsible for the injuries to the o-line and the terrible personnel decisions made by the front office.  The likes of which brought us player like Coates, Andrews, Irons, Roland, Guicic(sp), and some terrible terrible defenses.  Before Carson’s elbow injury his offense scored at will.  If not for a BS roughing call vs Tampa and a few botched fgs they’d have made the playoffs at least once more.  

Not to mention the string of arrests that hurt the reputation of this team for years.  

While Dalton’s stats exceeded that of Palmer he didn’t have anywhere near the BS Carson had to deal with.  Plus I very highly doubt Dalton would have anywhere near the stats had he not had AJ Green as his #1.  I’d take a young pre-injury Palmer over Dalton any day.

The fact that you have to resort to What ifs and pre-injuries and factors surrounding the QB kinda makes your argument moot. I don't think there's anyone here who would take Dalton over pre-injury Palmer, but the fact is the injuries happened. You can't change the fact that they happeend. And while they and the other factors certainly had an effect on Palmer, the fact remains that Dalton was a better QB for the Bengals than Palmer was.

[bengaloo]

(02-21-2020, 11:22 AM)Housh Wrote: To me this is obvious. He never had this smoke for Andy

Exactly  


The Bengals are about to potentially get a once in a franchise QB.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-21-2020, 11:16 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Palmer was a gun-slinger and Dalton is a blue collar QB. Dalton was more of a winner here and had a better demeanor but neither one of them really had that winning edge about them. Neither were cool under pressure or had the ability to improvise if a play broke down.

This is an excellent, simple summary of the 2.

[Stewy]

(02-18-2020, 03:34 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: will say while we thought Bratkowski had grown stale... Palmer still only ever had 1 OC...… while here at least.  coaching issues with those teams were often on defense.

Daltons first 2 OCs were so good they got promoted... Then after that we have failed with the last 3.

Thanks for bring this up.  Good coaching matters.  The lack thereof, also can be obvious.

[Catmandude123]

(02-21-2020, 10:57 AM)jj22 Wrote: I don't know what they mean. It was only 2 playoff seasons in 9 years. How hard is it to get the years right?

   Palmer was the QB from 04-10. He sat the rookie season. He missen3/4 of the 08 season. That is 6.25 seasons not nine. Palmer also never had AJ. Dalton's success is directly tied to him. When AJ went south with injuries so did Dalton. 

[jj22]

(02-21-2020, 03:54 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:    Palmer was the QB from 04-10. He sat the rookie season. He missen3/4 of the 08 season. That is 6.25 seasons not nine. Palmer also never had AJ. Dalton's success is directly tied to him. When AJ went south with injuries so did Dalton. 

You do know Palmer had some guy name Ocho (TJ,Henry)? Too many excuses for me.

Thank you for noting all Dalton had was AJ tho since you keep mentioning AJ and only AJ (for good reason). I mean Palmer's supporting cast including Oline was loaded. Top 10 running Offense etc.

Another notch under Daltons belt. Keep it up please.

[XenoMorph]

the real reason carson doesn't want Burrow to come here....

He wears #9....



Kinda weird that the our 2 1OA nearly 2 decades apart had the same number..

Now its definitely a done deal.

[Catmandude123]

(02-21-2020, 04:58 PM)jj22 Wrote: You do know Palmer had some guy name Ocho (TJ,Henry)? Too many excuses for me.

Thank you for noting all Dalton had was AJ tho since you keep mentioning AJ and only AJ (for good reason). I mean Palmer's supporting cast including Oline was loaded. Top 10 running Offense etc.

Another notch under Daltons belt. Keep it up please.

  Why do all the Dalton gangers want to give Dalton so much credit for the winning years but blame the rest of the team when he does poorly? Aj has been top five in receiving his first five years even though he was saddled with noodle armed Andy. I know you can't stand it because your boy is on his way out but look on the bright side , better days are coming and you will realize how weak Andy really was. 

[JSR18]

(02-18-2020, 01:49 PM)Au165 Wrote: QB is the one position you get away with it. The thing is you have to deliver though. Guys see through people who are doing it as an act and those who actually believe it. One of the knocks on Mayfield has been that his ultra vocal persona is a bit of an act as he doesn't show that same leadership in his preparation and demeanor inside the building.

I think Burrow is savvy enough to know as a rookie you can't come in proclaiming "This is my team blah blah blah"
I think Burrow comes in to OTAs/Training camp/Pre-season and quietly but confidently shows who he is and what he can do.
Once the season starts I think Burrow takes control of the huddle and the offense and starts taking the league by storm...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Tony]

(02-21-2020, 09:14 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote:   Why do all the Dalton gangers want to give Dalton so much credit for the winning years but blame the rest of the team when he does poorly? Aj has been top five in receiving his first five years even though he was saddled with noodle armed Andy. I know you can't stand it because your boy is on his way out but look on the bright side , better days are coming and you will realize how weak Andy really was. 

It's  tiring... Everyone knows Dalton sucks but a few Bengal fans. The rest of us knew it was time to move on after the Charger debacle in the playoffs. One of the worse games I ever seen a QB play in the playoffs. Losing to TJ Yates didn't help either.. Burrow will make em all forget the red bb gun though...

[Sled21]

(02-21-2020, 11:16 AM)bengaloo Wrote: Palmer was a gun-slinger and Dalton is a blue collar QB. Dalton was more of a winner here and had a better demeanor but neither one of them really had that winning edge about them. Neither were cool under pressure or had the ability to improvise if a play broke down.

Burrow is going to make us all forget Carson Palmer was ever a Bengal. I think Carson fears this and thats part of why his ego has been acting out.

BOOM!!!!!

[jfkbengals]

(02-23-2020, 05:29 AM)Tony Wrote: It's  tiring... Everyone knows Dalton sucks but a few Bengal fans. The rest of us knew it was time to move on after the Charger debacle in the playoffs. One of the worse games I ever seen a QB play in the playoffs. Losing to TJ Yates didn't help either.. Burrow will make em all forget the red bb gun though...

And the Patriots media, apparently, as there are a ton of thoughts that he will end up there when Tom leaves...

[Stonyhands]

(02-21-2020, 11:29 AM)PhilHos Wrote: The fact that you have to resort to What ifs and pre-injuries and factors surrounding the QB kinda makes your argument moot. I don't think there's anyone here who would take Dalton over pre-injury Palmer, but the fact is the injuries happened. You can't change the fact that they happeend. And while they and the other factors certainly had an effect on Palmer, the fact remains that Dalton was a better QB for the Bengals than Palmer was.

The thread title is Burrow vs Palmer...

Meaning I’m comparing current projected #1 pick Burrow to former #1 pick Carson Palmer pre-injury.

Dalton is at best an average to below average QB who is the least consistent QB in the NFL. He only succeeded when he everyone around him was healthy and there was talent all over the offense. Even then he was lucky enough to have better defenses than Carson ever had.

AJ Green was a way better talent than Chad was for Palmer. Palmer more than likely made Chad Johnson look better than we was. While AJ Green made Andy look better than he is. There’s no doubt in my mind that had the roles were reversed and Palmer played on the team Dalton was on and vice versa Palmer would have done much better than 1 td 6 interceptions in the playoffs.

[Stonyhands]

(02-21-2020, 04:58 PM)jj22 Wrote: You do know Palmer had some guy name Ocho (TJ,Henry)? Too many excuses for me.

Thank you for noting all Dalton had was AJ tho since you keep mentioning AJ and only AJ (for good reason). I mean Palmer's supporting cast including Oline was loaded. Top 10 running Offense etc.

Another notch under Daltons belt. Keep it up please.

Another fake news post, you just keep them coming.

How did Ocho do with Tom Brady?

How consistent was Henry on the field? When he was suspended or cut or injured? I’m a big fan of the kid but he wasn’t exactly a reliable asset for Palmer. Who was Palmer’s TE? Palmer had 1 year with a decent o-line before it all fell apart with injuries, retirement, and guys leaving in free agency.

AJ Green made Andy.
Carson Palmer made Chad Ochocinco.
Period.