What Point Should A Team Move On From A Player

[Mike M (the other one)]

Barring injuries, when a players contribution hurts more than helps the team. At that point they need to be regulated to back up and replaced the following year.

[Jhowdy54]

Don't think we have truly utilized John Ross' main strength as a receiver since he's been here. Speed, speed, and more speed. Not many many screens, slants, or reverses in the playbook. Still remember his first play as a Bengal. Had a reverse for like 20 yards before fumbling. He showed major flashes on that play making a couple guys miss for a big gain. Sure he was super nervous. Marvin Lewis instead of getting him back in there to get his confidence back up, benched Ross for what seemed like the rest of the season. Think Marvin hated him from the beginning.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-18-2020, 03:01 AM)Jhowdy54 Wrote: Don't think we have truly utilized John Ross' main strength as a receiver since he's been here.  Speed, speed, and more speed.  Not many many screens, slants, or reverses in the playbook.  Still remember his first play as a Bengal. Had a reverse for like 20 yards before fumbling.  He showed major flashes on that play making a couple guys miss for a big gain.  Sure he was super nervous.  Marvin Lewis instead of getting him back in there to get his confidence back up, benched Ross for what seemed like the rest of the season.  Think Marvin hated him from the beginning.

First that was his first semi positive olay, he had already dropped ball, ran a bad route etc.. benching was warranted.. he is fragile mentally...in NFL that normally means going nowhere which up to this point he has.  I actually could see him cut before the season starts.. WR crew is most competitive in a while but he might be saved with expanded rosters

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-18-2020, 07:56 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: First that was his first semi positive olay, he had already dropped ball, ran a bad route etc.. benching was warranted.. he is fragile mentally...in NFL that normally means going nowhere which up to this point he has.  I actually could see him cut before the season starts.. WR crew is most competitive in a while but he might be saved with expanded rosters

Highly doubt it.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-18-2020, 01:27 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Highly doubt it.

I don;t disagree but if front office allows Taylor to make those decisions and he is true to his word about making players accountable it may happen that he decides there are 6 better WRs in the room....

[impactplaya]

(06-18-2020, 06:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I don;t disagree but if front office allows Taylor to make those decisions and he is true to his word about making players accountable it may happen that he decides there are 6 better WRs in the room....

I could see if the Bengals had another WR that had Ross's 
Quickness and speed they could explore that option 
But they don't 
Boyd Tate are possession WRs. They aren't burners by any means. Erickson is a possession WR. 
ROSS needs a creative  OC to get the most out of him.
He's never been utilized like a Tyreek Hill or a Brandon Cooks.
Cutting him just creates another hole to fill 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-19-2020, 05:49 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I could see if the Bengals had another WR that had Ross's 
Quickness and speed they could explore that option 
But they don't 
Boyd Tate are possession WRs. They aren't burners by any means. Erickson is a possession WR. 
ROSS needs a creative  OC to get the most out of him.
He's never been utilized like a Tyreek Hill or a Brandon Cooks.
Cutting him just creates another hole to fill 

Agree, I see at most 4 WR's maybe that are better than him and only one in AJ if both can stay healthy and Ross lives up to his 
Draft status. Ross has worked with Burrow already and they might already have chemistry, something him and Dalton just never
had. With a season and an Offseason Taylor and company might know how to use him to his strengths now.

We will see if this is the year for Ross, think it would be stupid to cut him, just costs us money and depth and we wouldn't get to 
reap any benefit of the pick if for some reason the lightbulb finally turns on.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-19-2020, 05:49 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I could see if the Bengals had another WR that had Ross's 
Quickness and speed they could explore that option 
But they don't 
Boyd Tate are possession WRs. They aren't burners by any means. Erickson is a possession WR. 
ROSS needs a creative  OC to get the most out of him.
He's never been utilized like a Tyreek Hill or a Brandon Cooks.
Cutting him just creates another hole to fill 

Let's unpack your post.. first accountable should not equate to supposed skill set...second  you cant compare him to hill..he has done little on the field even when plays have been called for him.. bottom line  you stay on the field when u make plays.. not let's call plays hoping you make them.  Other factors  play in when u are maybe 4th or worse on depth chart.. can you play specials which he has not done well there either . If it comes down to Ross or Erickson as last WR.. totally could see Ross cut..

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-17-2020, 09:22 PM)JSR18 Wrote: I've held my thoughts about Ross so far.

This is what I see. I see an offensive minded coach (and play caller) making a specific role for John Ross. Think Brandin Cooks for the Rams. Think a better QB than Goff throwing open Ross on screens, slants and crossing patterns.

I'm thinking the announcers may get tired of yelling "...and there goes Ross"...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

To the IR.

Cooks has been a 1k+ receiver in 3 different offenses. John Ross hasn't even gotten 750 yards in 3 years combined.

Ross is a bum who can't stay healthy, can't catch, can't run the right route, and chooses not to run his routes to completion. None of that is magically changed by a different QB or an offensive minded play caller. You can call a perfectly designed play, and throw a perfect pass, but if the WR doesn't catch it, doesn't run the right route, quits on his route, or is hurt, it'll still be an incompletion at best and a Pick 6 at worst.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-19-2020, 08:40 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Let's unpack your post.. first accountable should not equate to supposed skill set...second  you cant compare him to hill..he has done little on the field even when plays have been called for him.. bottom line  you stay on the field when u make plays.. not let's call plays hoping you make them.  Other factors  play in when u are maybe 4th or worse on depth chart.. can you play specials which he has not done well there either . If it comes down to Ross or Erickson as last WR.. totally could see Ross cut..

You would keep Erickson over Ross?

I like Erickson but man, Phillips is one heck of a Returner and Brandon Wilson was the best Kick Returner in the NFL last year.

You give Ross this one year to prove if he is a bust or not.

(06-20-2020, 08:24 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: To the IR.

Cooks has been a 1k+ receiver in 3 different offenses. John Ross hasn't even gotten 750 yards in 3 years combined.

Ross is a bum who can't stay healthy, can't catch, can't run the right route, and chooses not to run his routes to completion. None of that is magically changed by a different QB or an offensive minded play caller. You can call a perfectly designed play, and throw a perfect pass, but if the WR doesn't catch it, doesn't run the right route, quits on his route, or is hurt, it'll still be an incompletion at best and a Pick 6 at worst.

These are the posts that make me hope to high heaven everything comes together for Ross this year.

It is true that Ross has had his problems but he also doesn't deserve this type of hate either.

A different QB and the right system sure frickin' helps out a Receiver, don't know what you are talking about.

Ask the Pats and the way they know how to turn nobody's into somebody's with the help of Brady and Billy B.

[Essex Johnson]

(06-20-2020, 03:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You would keep Erickson over Ross?

I like Erickson but man, Phillips is one heck of a Returner and Brandon Wilson was the best Kick Returner in the NFL last year.

You give Ross this one year to prove if he is a bust or not.


These are the posts that make me hope to high heaven everything comes together for Ross this year.

It is true that Ross has had his problems but he also doesn't deserve this type of hate either.

A different QB and the right system sure frickin' helps out a Receiver, don't know what you are talking about.

Ask the Pats and the way they know how to turn nobody's into somebody's with the help of Brady and Billy B.

In the entire time Dalton was our QB I never remember a WR that left the Bengals say Dalton held them back.. Ross is his worst enemy and will have to overcome rhat himself.. Erickson still has the main punt returner and he is dependable not injury prone,, tough minded  and from your own point should also improve with better QB.

[impactplaya]

(06-19-2020, 08:40 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Let's unpack your post.. first accountable should not equate to supposed skill set...second  you cant compare him to hill..he has done little on the field even when plays have been called for him.. bottom line  you stay on the field when u make plays.. not let's call plays hoping you make them.  Other factors  play in when u are maybe 4th or worse on depth chart.. can you play specials which he has not done well there either . If it comes down to Ross or Erickson as last WR.. totally could see Ross cut..

Since John Ross has made very few plays on the field how do
You explain his catch to TD ratio? 
Who is a bigger threat to find the end zone Erickson or Ross?

[Essex Johnson]

(06-20-2020, 09:29 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Since John Ross has made very few plays on the field how do
You explain his catch to TD ratio? 
Who is a bigger threat to find the end zone Erickson or Ross?

Look we can debate Ross and his abilities.. we both know he has many negatives so far in his career over positives..  I have maintained my point if Ross does not perform to the level of his abilities then I can see cutting him.. We know what we have in Erickson. I believe he has not missed a game in his career, he is way more clutch then Ross, dependable on specials..  if it came down to assuming Ross will get better over what we have in Erickson.. i am taking Erickson especially since we are talking about 4/6 WR position.. 

[fredtoast]

(06-20-2020, 03:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: A different QB and the right system sure frickin' helps out a Receiver, don't know what you are talking about.

Ask the Pats and the way they know how to turn nobody's into somebody's with the help of Brady and Billy B.

Actually the Pats have sucked at getting much production from thie WRs.

The Pats have drafted 17 WRs since Bill has been head coach and the 4th best on that list in career receptions is Brandon Tate with 71.  Here are some of the others.

1st round N'Keal Harry........12 career receptions
2nd round Chad Jackson.....14
2nd round Bethel Johnson...39
2nd round Aaron Dobson.....53
3rd round Taylor Price..........3
4th round Josh Boyce...........9
4th round Malcome Mitchell..32

[Nicomo Cosca]

(06-21-2020, 11:45 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Look we can debate Ross and his abilities.. we both know he has many negatives so far in his career over positives..  I have maintained my point if Ross does not perform to the level of his abilities then I can see cutting him.. We know what we have in Erickson. I believe he has not missed a game in his career, he is way more clutch then Ross, dependable on specials..  if it came down to assuming Ross will get better over what we have in Erickson.. i am taking Erickson especially since we are talking about 4/6 WR position.. 

It’s been pointed out to you (several times) there it no benefit in cutting Ross due to his 1st round rookie contract. His dead cap money would be exactly the same (5.4 mil). Might as well get something out of him this season, and then let him walk. You certainly don’t waste that kind of money cutting him to make room for some 5/6 WR.

[impactplaya]

(06-21-2020, 11:45 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Look we can debate Ross and his abilities.. we both know he has many negatives so far in his career over positives..  I have maintained my point if Ross does not perform to the level of his abilities then I can see cutting him.. We know what we have in Erickson. I believe he has not missed a game in his career, he is way more clutch then Ross, dependable on specials..  if it came down to assuming Ross will get better over what we have in Erickson.. i am taking Erickson especially since we are talking about 4/6 WR position.. 

Erickson is a average WR at best. He has reached his ceiling
As a WR.  He is a better than average route runner. 
But he's not creative after the catch and he's certinally not  a threat to.score 
We can crunify Ross all.we wamt on.not be healthy 
Running the wrong route but what you cannot debate is his 
Ability to.find the end zone 

[masonbengals fan]

Ross has this season to show that he can be depended upon. IMHO

[samhain]

I think the time to move on comes a lot sooner than it used to. I think the length of the rookie deal is standard right now. A player is either good enough to get a new deal, or he isn't. I suppose teams can bring guys back at a much reduced rate if they fill a role, but that's about it.

It's also very situational. Arizona proved that you can draft a first round QB then turn around and do it again the following year. That was basically unheard of until then. There were moving parts like a coaching change and the availability of a player he fell in love with all coming together. Plus Mahomes and the Kingsbury connection made it seem desirable for them to draft a high-athletic upside QB with a baseball arm.

As far as Ross goes, I think he has still has all the potential in the world. He entered into a raw deal when ownership drafted him while overriding Marvin, who allegedly was all in on Rueben Foster. Burrow is obviously a passer that likes to spread the ball around to several guys. He's also a no-doubt leader who will push the entire offense to get all he can out of them. If Ross somehow stays healthy and still can't win in the current situation, then he's probably done.

I wouldn't bet a paycheck on it, but it also wouldn't be the most shocking thing in the world to me if Ross had a breakout season. He's in an ideal scenario to make it happen, and he's trying to get paid again. Teams around the league will break the bank for a guy with his physical skill set that can put up numbers to match.

[samhain]

(06-21-2020, 01:42 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Erickson is a average WR at best. He has reached his ceiling
As a WR.  He is a better than average route runner. 
But he's not creative after the catch and he's certinally not  a threat to.score 
We can crunify Ross all.we wamt on.not be healthy 
Running the wrong route but what you cannot debate is his 
Ability to.find the end zone 

Erickson is a 5th WR on an average NFL depth chart, period.  He's a specialist, and a good one.  

He's had every chance in the world to prove that he's some hidden gem that can consistently produce.  At the end of 2018 injuries made him a starter, and he was just okay.  Last year, our WR group was a mash unit, and he was just a guy.  

[*ochocincos*]

(06-17-2020, 08:47 PM)Bruce Wrote: wish they would get red of Ross already. bout time to send jackson packing to cause the money hes gonna want is way more than what he's earned so far. i would hang onto price a little longer. He's a good kid and has had some problems but i say he still has a chance to turn into a good player for us.

Wait, why is it time to send WJ3 and Ross packing but not Price when Price has performed worse than both of them?
Please explain how Price has a chance to turn into a good player but Ross and WJ3 do not.