Oh crap, we need a Center

[Essex Johnson]

(01-07-2021, 08:42 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: You may be right about the injuries to Jonah Williams but I think the definition of "fine" is a bit fuzzy.  It's not just you, Essex, but lots of people on this board says someone played "fine" but I don't know how to quantify or define what "fine" means.  What I think most posters probably mean by "fine" is "adequate." 

If this is the case then yes, Jonah was adequate for a first year player but is "adequate" enough to win championships?  I don't think so; we need spectacular play instead.

Was Burrow not adequate in some games too? did William's not contribute in Burrow success in games too. As a rookie William's performance was nothing to worry about, he was not a weakness and had some good games.. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-07-2021, 09:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Because to those who dislike Hart it does not fit their false narrative that Hart is the worse most overpaid tackle in league

Literally no one is saying either of those things. We just want a better RT. Our best teams had guys like Willie and Andre. Hart has improved but he’s never going to be a strength on the outside.

And we should set the bar higher than “he’s not he worst in the league.” Especially when it comes to protecting our franchise QB.

[fredtoast]

(01-07-2021, 09:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Literally no one is saying either of those things. We just want a better RT. Our best teams had guys like Willie and Andre. Hart has improved but he’s never going to be a strength on the outside.

And we should set the bar higher than “he’s not he worst in the league.” Especially when it comes to protecting our franchise QB.

How many people ar admitting that Hart is the secoind bets O-linemen we have.

I don't mind people saying we have to replace Hart as long as they are saying we have to replace 4 of the 5 starters on the O-line.  But no one is saying that.  Instead they are saying hart is one of the bhiggets problems on the O-line.

In 2019 Hopkins had more blown blocks and allowed more sacks than hart, yet most people were fawning over Trey and shitting on Bobby.

Hart was garbage in 2018 and got over paid.  Even I agree with that.  But people refuse to change their mind about him even thoiugh he has improved DRAMATICALLY.

[J24]

Price can fill in for him for a couple of weeks if worse case scenario happens and he isn't ready.

[*bfine32*]

(01-08-2021, 01:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: How many people ar admitting that Hart is the secoind bets O-linemen we have.

I don't mind people saying we have to replace Hart as long as they are saying we have to replace 4 of the 5 starters on the O-line.  But no one is saying that.  Instead they are saying hart is one of the bhiggets problems on the O-line.

In 2019 Hopkins had more blown blocks and allowed more sacks than hart, yet most people were fawning over Trey and shitting on Bobby.

Hart was garbage in 2018 and got over paid.  Even I agree with that.  But people refuse to change their mind about him even thoiugh he has improved DRAMATICALLY.

If Bobby Hart was our biggest problem on the oline we'd be in good shape. I disagree with your stance on Hopkins, but I'd definitely look to improve both Guards before I'd look at Hart. The problem is where we draft. If Sewell is there you have to take him, Bobby Hart be damned. 

[wildcatnku24]

(01-08-2021, 02:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: If Bobby Hart was our biggest problem on the oline we'd be in good shape. I disagree with your stance on Hopkins, but I'd definitely look to improve both Guards before I'd look at Hart. The problem is where we draft. If Sewell is there you have to take him, Bobby Hart be damned. 

Does Bobby play Guard?  If so, perhaps drafting Sewell at LT, Williams at RT and kick Bobby inside.  Price at center and FA for guard.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-07-2021, 09:28 PM)Synric Wrote: Landon Dickerson also had a late season knee injury it was around the first part of December. He will drop in the draft because he is unlikely go be ready to start the season.

Trey Hill C/OG from Georgia will be there in the 4th or 5th. He isn't the greatest athlete but had good games against competition like Auburn's Derrick Brown. Hill doesnt give up pressure or sacks and creates holes in the running game. 

Good stuff, thanks Synric. Leaning Hill after hearing of the Dickerson injury.

[*rfaulk34*]

Wasn't sure where to put this, so i guess here is as good as anywhere.

The guy i was screaming from the rooftops for, last year...Jack Conklin...is All Pro this year. 

Bengals coulda had him. 

[*jason*]

This thread title has been accurate since 2006.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-08-2021, 07:06 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Wasn't sure where to put this, so i guess here is as good as anywhere.

The guy i was screaming from the rooftops for, last year...Jack Conklin...is All Pro this year. 

Bengals coulda had him. 

Who wants to add an All-Pro OL when you can instead be baselessly confident in the guys you already have? Swap out a John Miller for a XSF in essentially a lateral move and you're good to go.

[SuperBowlBound!]

(01-08-2021, 08:35 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Who wants to add an All-Pro OL when you can instead be baselessly confident in the guys you already have? Swap out a John Miller for a XSF in essentially a lateral move and you're good to go.

I wanted Conklin as well last year.

It was so obvious that I have to wonder if they approached his agent and were told he was not interested.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-08-2021, 09:41 PM)SuperBowlBound! Wrote: I wanted Conklin as well last year.

It was so obvious that I have to wonder if they approached his agent and were told he was not interested.

Play for Bill Callahan or Jim Turner...

Tough choice.

[phil413]

(01-08-2021, 02:00 AM)bfine32 Wrote: If Bobby Hart was our biggest problem on the oline we'd be in good shape. I disagree with your stance on Hopkins, but I'd definitely look to improve both Guards before I'd look at Hart. The problem is where we draft. If Sewell is there you have to take him, Bobby Hart be damned. 

Yeah we long for Hart being the weak link instead of posters being defensive about the criticism of such an important position.  They need to add two B level starters to this line bare minimum.  That or an A and a C or whatever.  

If they go into the draft with Jonah and Thuney (A grade), I still want another C+/C player to put with XSF, and Hart.  Let Adeniji and the kids that haven't planned out fight for backup jobs or push for PT if they surprise.  

Any BPA on the OL can still be taken, cutting Hart or pushing XSF/the FA to the bench would be a nice problem to have. 

Specific to Center, Billy would be dead money so he stays as a sub.  Hopkins would have to be eased in midseason and shouldn't be counted on, Finney at 3.5M can be replaced by a better FA.

[wildcatnku24]

(01-08-2021, 08:35 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Who wants to add an All-Pro OL when you can instead be baselessly confident in the guys you already have? Swap out a John Miller for a XSF in essentially a lateral move and you're good to go.

Woah now, I am pretty clueless when it comes to offensive lineman, but is XSF really a lateral move from John Miller?  I never saw John Miller hauling ass in the 2nd/3rd level getting blocks like I saw XSF do in the few games he got to play.  I was very impressed with XSF, personally.  Dude was a massive, yet quick guy.  I want to be clear, this isn’t meant to argue with you at all, more for you to correct me based on what I thought I saw.  Am I crazy?

[fredtoast]

(01-08-2021, 08:15 PM)jason Wrote: This thread title has been accurate since 2006.

Kyle Cook was a very good center before he was injured.  I think he only allowed 5 sacks in his first three years as a starter.  Pat Kirwan said he should have been selected to the Pro Bowl.

[*jason*]

(01-09-2021, 02:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Kyle Cook was a very good center before he was injured.  I think he only allowed 5 sacks in his first three years as a starter.  Pat Kirwan said he should have been selected to the Pro Bowl.

I kinda always forget about him. The 2009 center. Wasn't he undrafted too? I remember him in college at Michigan State. I don't recall whatever happened to him. I just know his time in Cincinnati was short.

Basically my point was the line's been so bad the past 5 seasons that we feel like C is all worked out because we've got a guy that's aight...

[fredtoast]

(01-09-2021, 02:37 AM)jason Wrote: Basically my point was the line's been so bad the past 5 seasons that we feel like C is all worked out because we've got a guy that's aight...

I agree with you on that.

[Nicomo Cosca]

The main thing I remember about Kyle Cook is Palmer telling him on Hard Knocks that he had a musty smelling butt and he needs to shower more. Lol

[Bernards watch]

I think it was Denher who said it but most likely was two new o linemen. Im guess a top g and Rt. Alongside williams and Spain it should keep price doing ok at centre

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-09-2021, 02:24 AM)wildcatnku24 Wrote: Woah now, I am pretty clueless when it comes to offensive lineman, but is XSF really a lateral move from John Miller?  I never saw John Miller hauling ass in the 2nd/3rd level getting blocks like I saw XSF do in the few games he got to play.  I was very impressed with XSF, personally.  Dude was a massive, yet quick guy.  I want to be clear, this isn’t meant to argue with you at all, more for you to correct me based on what I thought I saw.  Am I crazy?

At least according to PFF, if you put any stock into it...

John Miller 2019: 58.6
John Miller 2020: 61.1

XSF 2019: 60.1
XSF 2020: 59.1

They're both basically bottom tier starters at best, but ideally a backup on a good team. I don't have all the advanced stats or whatnot, but I think I vaguely remember hearing how one was better in pass and one was better in run, but they basically are equal overall. Not sure which was which, though.

I think remembering XSF as better than he is might be a bit how we were all excited about Hopkins two years ago when he was the best guy on a truly terrible OL. Just looked good in comparison to all the bad guys but in reality just continues to be meh-at-best.