Perhaps Mike Brown isn't so Semi-Retired?

[Bilbo Saggins]

(05-04-2021, 07:15 PM)J24 Wrote: Both; why would you not have a conversation with one of the top minds in the game that works with a ton of prospects? As far as I'm concerned the relationship that this organization has with Paul is 100% an advantage for them. 

It's sounds like Mike actually did something smart for once and people are complaining about for no reason.

Uhhhh. What? ~40 years, not even a playoff win, canned by the Cowboys in about two seconds...

I don't see Dante Scarneccia working for the Pottsdam Royals.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-04-2021, 07:15 PM)J24 Wrote: Both; why would you not have a conversation with one of the top minds in the game that works with a ton of prospects? As far as I'm concerned the relationship that this organization has with Paul is 100% an advantage for them. 

It's sounds like Mike actually did something smart for once and people are complaining about for no reason.

Respect your opinion, but I have to disagree. The game passed him by and his picks of late reflected that. His experience (and lack of employment) make him a fine choice for prospects to work with, but that doesn't give Paul a great eye for talent.

(05-04-2021, 07:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wonder how different that list would look, had the team went in another direction when they hired Marvin Lewis?  For all of our gripes about Lewis over his career, one thing was for certain;  He built the Bengal teams to be classic AFCN, ground and pound offenses with punishing defenses.  He built his teams to compete and win our division. 

Agreed. Marvin definitely made the Bengals into a true AFCN team. We started to develop an identity...which is something I feel this team has lacked without him. That doesn't mean I want Marvin around ... but it'd be nice if the FO actually learned something from Marvin's 16 year run.

[J24]

(05-04-2021, 09:31 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Uhhhh. What? ~40 years, not even a playoff win, canned by the Cowboys in about two seconds...

I don't see Dante Scarneccia working for the Pottsdam Royals.

Nearly every major offensive line prospect was his client this past draft  season.

Also he his a guy who his spreading the game in europe and around the globe. If you honestly have a problem with that then you just suck as a fan of Football.

[Bilbo Saggins]

(05-04-2021, 09:55 PM)J24 Wrote: Nearly every major offensive line prospect was his client this past draft  season.

Also he his a guy who his spreading the game in europe and around the globe. If you honestly have a problem with that then you just suck as a fan of Football.

Maybe I'd rather "just suck as a fan of Football" than to get excited about the opinion of the guy who saw nothing wrong with trotting Bodine out there, effectively squandering the elite play of others on that line. If he were of championship caliber, he wouldn't have been jettisoned from the league in two seconds flat without the Brown nepotism factor. 

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-04-2021, 02:58 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: At that point i think alexander just had to work with what they gave him

Ok, then I guess he shouldn't get credit for drafting Willie Anderson then either.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(05-04-2021, 05:21 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Are we talking about appreciating his contributions 20 years ago? Or about wanting his input on draft decisions in 2021? If it's the latter, his recent track record is terrible, so why should we want him having any input?


We've generally been a far more balanced team than people realize. A lot of years we've ranked higher in rush attempts than pass attempts.

2020: 14th in pass attempts, 17th in rush attempts
2019: 6th in pass attempts, 25th in rush attempts
2018: 18th in pass attempts, 26th in rush attempts
2017: 25th in pass attempts, 29th in rush attempts
*2016: 20th in pass attempts, 9th in rush attempts
*2015: 26th in pass attempts, 7th in rush attempts
*2014: 25th in pass attempts, 5th in rush attempts
*2013: 12th in pass attempts, 8th in rush attempts
*2012: 19th in pass attempts, 17th in rush attempts
*2011: 20th in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
2010: 5th in pass attempts, 15th in rush attempts
*2009: 27th in pass attempts, 4th in rush attempts
2008: 16th in pass attempts, 21st in rush attempts
2007: 8th in pass attempts, 23rd in rush attempts
2006: 14th in pass attempts, 20th in rush attempts
2005: 12th in pass attempts, 14th in rush attempts
2004: 11th in pass attempts, 18th in rush attempts
*2003: 15th in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
2002: 5th in pass attempts, 19th in rush attempts
2001: 2nd in pass attempts, 15th in rush attempts
*2000: 27th in pass attempts, 9th in rush attempts
1999: 12th in pass attempts, 14th in rush attempts
1998: 15th in pass attempts, 24th in rush attempts
*1997: 21st in pass attempts, 13th in rush attempts
1996: 7th in pass attempts, 8th in rush attempts
1995: 12th in pass attempts, 29th in rush attempts
1994: 12th in pass attempts, 25th in rush attempts
1993: 15th in pass attempts, 21st in rush attempts
*1992: 21st in pass attempts, 10th in rush attempts
1991: 9th in pass attempts, 12th in rush attempts

Average ranks during Mike Brown's reign of terror:

15.0 in pass attempts
15.9 in rush attempts

I went overboard here

But I wanted to prove we've been more balanced than people realize. Marvin got us to shift more to the run, but even in years where we passed more, we were still usually running the ball a good bit. In the 90s we were hurt by being behind a lot...so we ran less as a result.

So while we were identifying as a "run first" team, or even being balanced, the run game was vital. Yet Paul produced all those terribly ineffective rush offenses. We ran, but just never ran WELL. Hence why my opinion of PA was always lower than most people.

Mine too, and didn't he coordinate the run game as well? I always saw better than I heard. The YPC was dismal nearly his entire tenure.

[J24]

(05-04-2021, 10:34 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Maybe I'd rather "just suck as a fan of Football" than to get excited about the opinion of the guy who saw nothing wrong with trotting Bodine out there, effectively squandering the elite play of others on that line. If he were of championship caliber, he wouldn't have been jettisoned from the league in two seconds flat without the Brown nepotism factor. 

Drafts two HOF caliber players in Willie Anderson and Andrew Whitworth, PFF rated the Bengals line has the best pass blocking line in their first decade(07-17), and he made Sports Illustrated dream coaching staff. The dude is/was great at evaluating Offensive Talent wether you like it or not.  

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-04-2021, 08:58 PM)OSUfan Wrote: You can begin to make it out to be more than it is but it just don't make it so. Science is not on your side with this one. Sorry you experienced it but I will venture a guess that you did not experience the same level of treatment for it that these guys are getting today. Below are the facts:

https://www.brainspinesurgery.com/j-j-watt-and-how-herniated-discs-can-reoccur/#:~:text=in%20the%20spine.-,J.J.,surgery%20for%20a%20herniated%20disc.&text=That%20number%20has%20assuredly%20increased%20over%20the%20past%20several%20years.

https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=198616

You also still have not answered which WR in this class was going to help this team even remotely as close to the impact that Chase will have.

The second article references the upper spine which probably doesn't result in sciatica so it is not relevant.  The first article talks about JJ Watt who had to repeat the surgery because he didn't fully heal.  Are you saying JJ Watt is the same player he was before he had back issues, the dude was the best defensive player in the NFL maybe all time before his back issues?  I am pretty sure he had to miss the season after his first back surgery btw, which kind of proves my point, he actually had to repeat the surgery.

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-04-2021, 10:55 PM)J24 Wrote: Drafts two HOF caliber players in Willie Anderson and Andrew Whitworth, PFF rated the Bengals line has the best pass blocking line in their first decade(07-17), and he made Sports Illustrated dream coaching staff. The dude is/was great at evaluating Offensive Talent wether you like it or not.  

Willie Anderson and Andrew Whitworth were easy picks man, they were like the highest rated tackles when they came out of college.

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-03-2021, 12:18 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The article doesn't make it clear why Mike was asking about Carman. It could've been that Duke, Zac and Frank already had him as the primary target and Mike was just getting Alexander's input since he worked with him...which seems more likely, IMO.

He was probably asking because he knew he was at the top of their board but didn't know anything about him...because he's not as involved anymore. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-03-2021, 03:27 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - Bengals have the best draft in football in 2020.... No one brings up Mike Brown

- Bengals have a draft in 2021 and before players can even do a mini camp.... people ***** that Mike Brown had a hand in the draft.

I swear to god, the illogical pissing and moaning that goes on with ANYTHING these days is just so perplexing to me. Welcome to 2021: The year of the 1 way street.

IMO, after a lot of research, reading, and listening, this draft is AWESOME. Just, AWESOME in every way. Everything the Bengals did made a ton of sense. Really excited for these new players and the competition they bring!

Plenty of real issues to complain about regarding the Bengals, but to already be bitching about this draft? Goofy AF.

You can't argue with the Bengals track record of failure.

You also can't argue that there seems to be a plan over the last couple years that just hasn't come to fruition yet. But you can definitely see a plan.

[Murdock2420]

(05-04-2021, 05:21 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Are we talking about appreciating his contributions 20 years ago? Or about wanting his input on draft decisions in 2021? If it's the latter, his recent track record is terrible, so why should we want him having any input?


We've generally been a far more balanced team than people realize. A lot of years we've ranked higher in rush attempts than pass attempts.

2020: 14th in pass attempts, 17th in rush attempts

I'm curious what the ranks were prior to Burrow going down and then post going down.

I have a feeling those numbers became skewed with that injury. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-04-2021, 01:29 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote:  A lot of the local guys, even Hobs, has mentioned that Ogbuehi and Fisher not working out was pretty much the nail in Alexander's coffin here. Remember the Westerman press conference in 2016? Paul was asked about him being competition for Bodine and he went off about the witch hunt against Bodine. You could tell PA was cracking at that point. 

He seemed to get a little too locked in on his guys and wasn't willing to admit (to himself) that he was wrong and they needed to move on. 

[*rfaulk34*]

I don't know if this has been posted yet or not. I'd be surprised if it hasn't but, just in case...

https://www.bengals.com/news/big-willie-re-surfaces-25-years-later-in-a-draft-as-tobin-dukes-out-a-trade-for-

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-04-2021, 11:21 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He seemed to get a little too locked in on his guys and wasn't willing to admit (to himself) that he was wrong and they needed to move on. 

Good point.  That seems to be the case with our OL for a long time now actually, I mean we resigned Bobby Hart when he was clearly terrible.  I can't think of any other position group where we have been so stubborn.

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-04-2021, 11:26 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: Good point.  That seems to be the case with our OL for a long time now actually, I mean we resigned Bobby Hart when he was clearly terrible.  I can't think of any other position group where we have been so stubborn.

Fans are always more willing to move on from players than coaches, who work with them and have relationships with them, are. 

[sandwedge]

(05-03-2021, 02:34 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This is just such a letdown of an article. I thought we were done with ownership meddling in football operations?

And why the hell is Alexander back? I mean he is directly stepping on Pollacks toes when the owner is taking advice from him.

And lets not forget this is the same guy that drafted Ogbuehi and Fisher back to back...

What a disaster.

Huh?

[sandwedge]

(05-03-2021, 03:39 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: There is plenty of reasons to ***** about the draft, they didn't make OL the priority.  If Burrow gets hurt this year again I will blame them.

Oh sweet jesus.........

[Shake n Blake]

(05-04-2021, 10:53 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Mine too, and didn't he coordinate the run game as well? I always saw better than I heard. The YPC was dismal nearly his entire tenure.

He did coordinate the run game.

(05-04-2021, 11:09 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I'm curious what the ranks were prior to Burrow going down and then post going down.

I have a feeling those numbers became skewed with that injury. 

Not sure about that, but I know Burrow was chucking it 40 times a game. I'm sure our runners got way more carries when Finley was in. Finley barely threw at all. Zac's offense needs more balance, for sure.

[sandwedge]

(05-03-2021, 10:26 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:  It obviously wasn't a priority because rather than go after a guy they wanted in the second round they traded back and picked whatever was left after other teams left us the scraps.  He was what was left over after teams who scout and draft better than the Bengals had their choice of players we could have drafted.  Sure maybe overall it made us a better team adding extra picks to improve the defense but were risking the franchise by not giving Burrow a good offensive line.  If Burrow goes down again with injury the team is done season over and the rest of the draft will not matter.  That is why I don't care who else we drafted because the OL is not fixed, we did not draft any premier players for the OL.

Wow, you seem to have all the facts. Please tell us how you know these as facts! 

Shake, I give you exhibit A.....