Bengals not expecting to sign Bates to an extension at this time

[Southpaw Frerotte]

(08-16-2021, 12:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: My point is that you were completely clueless when you claimed the Bengals had NEVER signed one of the top overall free agents.

Pretty simple and direct actually.  Kind of surprised that I have to spell it out for you.

Do you normally insult posters when you post?  Seems childish and drives away from the point of the discussion.  Never the less, if I give you Reader, how exactly does 1 top free agent signing in the last 30 years qualify as Mike Brown having a history of signing top free agents again?  

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2021, 01:23 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote:  if I give you Reader, how exactly does 1 top free agent signing in the last 30 years qualify as Mike Brown having a history of signing top free agents again?  

1.  You don't have to "give" me anything.  I just posted proof that over the last two seasons the Bengals have signed 3 top level free agents.

2.  Impossible to debate with someone who moves the goalposts every time they get proven wrong.  Your back peddling as hard as you can from "NEVER signed a top free agent" to talking about "history".  History doesn't mean anything once it changes.  For years I heard fans cry about how Mike Brown would NEVER use a first round pick on a TE.  Then he did it twice in 4 years.  Then Mike Brown would NEVER use a first round pick on an interior offensive lineman but now he has done it twice in the last decade.

You were 100% wrong about Mike Brown never spending big money to keep his own players or even sign top players from other teams.  I proved it.  

[muskiesfan]

I have nothing to add other than this has to get done. Honestly, I do not care if we have to overpay. The cap is going to be going up considerably moving forward. Some players are going to get more than they should. Let Bates cash in. He's a great young player and he wants to be here. Don't mess around, don't play games, just get it done.

[Southpaw Frerotte]

(08-16-2021, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  You don't have to "give" me anything.  I just posted proof that over the last two seasons the Bengals have signed 3 top level free agents.

Trae Waynes wasn’t a top free agent. And why are you only going back two years when there are 30 years?

Quote:2.  Impossible to debate with someone who moves the goalposts every time they get proven wrong.  Your back peddling as hard as you can from "NEVER signed a top free agent" to talking about "history". 

Lol citing history to make a claim is not backpedaling.

Quote: History doesn't mean anything once it changes.

Lol what does this even mean? Since time is always moving forward, history is always changing. Are you implying Mike Brown should get the same benefit of the doubt as all other GMs given “history doesn’t mean anything?”

Quote:For years I heard fans cry about how Mike Brown would NEVER use a first round pick on a TE.  Then he did it twice in 4 years.  Then Mike Brown would NEVER use a first round pick on an interior offensive lineman but now he has done it twice in the last decade.

Earlier, you incorrectly used the terms “moving the goal posts” and “back peddling” to describe me. Funny enough, talking about drafting tight ends and interior lineman when discussing free agency is the definition of “moving the goal posts” and “back peddling”

Quote:You were 100% wrong about Mike Brown never spending big money to keep his own players

When did I say that? Believe this would be called “putting words in my mouth”.

Quote: or even sign top players from other teams.  I proved it.  

He signed one (to meet cap floors outlined in CBA). Not sure how one free agent out of hundreds over the last 30 years constitutes proof. Reminds me of that scene from Dumb and Dumber when Jim Carey is told he has a one and a million chance to go on a date with the girl and he responds “so you’re telling me there’s a chance!”

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2021, 10:51 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Earlier, you incorrectly used the terms “moving the goal posts” and “back peddling” to describe me.

Just so I am clear.  Each of the last two seasons the Bengals have handed out one of the top 6 biggest contracts in free agency and you are still standing by your claim that Mike Brown has NEVER signed a top tier free agent.

(08-16-2021, 10:51 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Funny enough, talking about drafting tight ends and interior lineman when discussing free agency is the definition of “moving the goal posts” and “back peddling”

Actually "no".  You obviously don't know the definition of "back peddling" or "moving the goal posts".  My position is that Mike Brown has signed top tier free agents the last two years.  I have never moved from that position or changed it in any way.

You are the one who appeared to change his position form "never" to "didn't used to do it".

The discussion about how people like you have been proven 100% wrong when you ay "history proves the Bengals will never use a first round pick on a TE or interior lineman" is not changing my position in any way.  It is just another example of how wrong people like you have been in the past.  This supports my position without changing or moving it in any way.

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2021, 10:51 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote:  And why are you only going back two years when there are 30 years?  

Because I only have to go back two years to prove that you are wrong when you said Mike Brown has NEVER signed a top tier free agent.

What's next from you?  Are you going to argue that Emmitt Smith is going to lead the league in rushing this year because he has gained the most rushing yards over the last 30 years?

[Southpaw Frerotte]

(08-17-2021, 12:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Just so I am clear.  Each of the last two seasons the Bengals have handed out one of the top 6 biggest contracts in free agency and you are still standing by your claim that Mike Brown has NEVER signed a top tier free agent.

This is actually a very flawed comment.  As I'm sure you're aware, NFL contracts are non-guaranteed (and hence why guaranteed money plays a large factor in free agent signings).    When you factor in guaranteed money, only DJ Reader's contract qualifies as a top tier free agent (5th in guaranteed money in his FA class).  When pointing to Trey Hendrickson, not only is he 21st in his FA class, but he's even behind the Bengal he replaced, Carl Lawson, who was in 7th.  Is there a particular reason you're being so disingenuous in an attempt to defend Mike Brown?

Quote:Actually "no".  You obviously don't know the definition of "back peddling" or "moving the goal posts".  My position is that Mike Brown has signed top tier free agents the last two years.  I have never moved from that position or changed it in any way.

You are the one who appeared to change his position form "never" to "didn't used to do it".

If your position is Mike Brown has signed top tier free agents, then why were you discussing drafting tight ends and interior guards?  

Quote:The discussion about how people like you have been proven 100% wrong when you ay "history proves the Bengals will never use a first round pick on a TE or interior lineman" is not changing my position in any way.  It is just another example of how wrong people like you have been in the past.  This supports my position without changing or moving it in any way.

You keep saying I've been proven 100% wrong, yet you can only provide me with one example (DJ Reader) of Mike Brown signing a free agent to one of the larger free agent contracts (for their respective class).  You do understand sample sizes, outliers and ratios, right?   

(08-17-2021, 12:32 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Because I only have to go back two years to prove that you are wrong when you said Mike Brown has NEVER signed a top tier free agent.

What's next from you?  Are you going to argue that Emmitt Smith is going to lead the league in rushing this year because he has gained the most rushing yards over the last 30 years?

Is Emmitt Smith still playing?  Is Mike Brown still the GM?  Yeah, so much for whatever argument that was supposed to be.