Are we being realistic with Free Agency expectations?

[higgy100]

(02-18-2022, 10:51 AM)Whatever Wrote: KC has WAYYYY more holes than we do...

Starting LT Orlando Brown
Starting RT Mike Remmers
Starting WR Mecole Hardman
WR 3 Byron Pringle
Starting Edge Melvin Ingram
Starting CB Chavarious Ward
Starting FS Honey Badger
Starting DT Jarran Reed

Not to mention key backups and rotational players like Wylie, Sorensen, McKinnon, etc.

I believe he was talking about a season ago by saying they "had".

[Whatever]

(02-18-2022, 11:00 AM)higgy100 Wrote: I believe he was talking about a season ago by saying they "had".

KC had 23 guys hit FA last year.  We have 25 this year.

[Tomcat]

(02-18-2022, 10:49 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: I think we actually make a couple solid FA signings this year, as well as re-signing our own.

Me thinks:

CUTS-

1) Trea Waynes- 10.4 savings. He's a no brainer
2) Trey Hopkins-5.6 savings. need to re-allocate and upgrade the interior line play.
-16 million added to salary cap.

RE-SIGNS:

1) B.Allen-QB
2) J.Bates-FS
3) CJ Uzomeh-TE
4) BJ Hill-DT
5) Tre Flowers-CB
6) E.Apple-CB
7) K.Huber-P
8) C.Harris-LS
9) Mike Thomas-WR/ST
10) Riley Reiff-RT/LT
11) R.Allen-CB/S

FA"S from OUTSIDE:

1) James Daniels- RG
2) Brian Allen-C
- new line- LT-Williams, LG-Carmen, C- Allen, RG-Daniels, RT- Reiff/Frere
DRAFT: (1-5)

1) Nicolas Petit-Frere- RT (Ohio ST)
2) Phidarius Mathis-DT (Alabama)
3) Mykael Wright-CB (Oregon)
4) Charlie Kolar-TE (Iowa St)
5) Calvin Austin-WR/KR (Memphis)


I could live with this offseason, but i think you can take Huber off your list of FA since Chrisman was signed to a futures contract, so i think that will add another 2-2.5 million savings.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-18-2022, 10:49 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: 2) Trey Hopkins-5.6 savings. need to re-allocate and upgrade the interior line play.
-16 million added to salary cap.

RE-SIGNS:

1) B.Allen-QB

7) K.Huber-P

10) Riley Reiff-RT/LT

These are the only ones I really disagree with, to an extent.  Hopkins, I would only let go if we have the replacement center already ready to go. I don't see anyone on the roster better than Hop at C, so as soon as you sign the replacement FA center, sure, let Hop go if we need to save the money, otherwise, I'd keep him as a backup.

B. Allen and Huber I don't really want back. I'd keep Huber only if there's no punter available, and let's face it, there's ALWAYS punters available. And we definitely need a better backup QB. I say, at the very least, give the dude on the practice squad every chance to unseat Allen as backup QB.

Reiff, I'm not sure I want back. Not because he's a bad RT, but because of the injury issue. If there's someone that's better, sign them before Reiff. If there's someone comparable but has shown more durability, sign them before Reiff. If no one's better/more durable, then re-sign Reiff

[higgy100]

(02-18-2022, 11:18 AM)Whatever Wrote: KC had 23 guys hit FA last year.  We have 25 this year.

So he was correct is what you're saying.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(02-18-2022, 10:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Chiefs did not have al the other holes in their roster that we do.

Starting safety...Bates
Starting CB.......Apple/Waynes
Starting TE.......Uzomah
Starting DT.......Ogunjobi
Rotation DTs that played about 50% of snaps each.......Hill, Tupuo.

I think Chiefs resigned Chris Jones which is more expensive than Bates. Everyone else is not more important than protecting Burrow and none will break the bank. Bengals also have Burrow and Chase on rookie deals no such luck on Mahomes and Hill.

[phil413]

(02-18-2022, 12:25 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I think Chiefs resigned Chris Jones which is more expensive than Bates. Everyone else is not more important than protecting Burrow and none will break the bank. Bengals also have Burrow and Chase on rookie deals no such luck on Mahomes and Hill.

Now is the time to front load two B grade or better OL to coincide with those deals. You want OL with tread left to play the next 4 years.

[casear2727]

(02-18-2022, 10:22 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Agree the tackle market is slim at RT and replacing Williams with Armstead who’s 6 years older and more expensive doesn’t make sense. I don’t think the Bengals will pay top dollar for Scherff so that next waive of guards that you mentioned is where I’d look. Daniels, Allen, Tomlinson I also saw that Alex Cappa from Tampa is a restricted free agent he’s only 27 and has played well.

Cappa is an ideal fit.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

If we signed a LT would Jonah be willing to move to the right side? Then maybe sign a G resign Reiff to play other go with Hopkins and draft a first round C for competition may be best way to fix the line

[kalibengal]

(02-17-2022, 10:39 PM)puddycat Wrote: Bates franchise tag is 13.5M.  He won't get more than that unless he signs multi-year with up front bonus.  I think he's a top 10 safety, but not a top 5.
CJ is a team leader and I'd like to see him back at 7M, but he's hit and miss in blocking.  I'd also like to pursue Maxx Williams 6M, who is a more find-the-soft-spot receiver but an excellent blocker. Good TE blockers are getting harder to find.
Since DB performance is hard to project, I'd repeat our scatter shot approach and pursue DJ Reed 8M, Sidney Jones 4M, or Casey Hayward 8M as a CB2 with Eli or Phillips 2M as a CB5 and draft a CB/S.
BJ Hill is a nice run/pass mix, but for a little bump in salary the Bengals could pursue Akiem Hicks, who's better at everything.

The OLine: I'm not sold on anyone but Williams.  I also don't want to sink $15+m into a player that could end up injured.  I also don't want sign 4 FAs.  OTOH, improvement isn't hard when you start from bad.
RT: I like Moses 8M if available, or sign Reiff 7M or Bobby Massey 3M as stop-gap RTs and draft or develop.
OG: Oday Aboushi 3M, recovering from ACL in 2021 and Spain 4M.  I'm not convinced that Tomlinson is worth 8 or Scherff worth 17. Pick up another OG in the draft and let them battle it out.
OC: My big/small brain move.  Trade 2022 and 2023 1st rounders to get Tyler Lindenbaum.  I'm not planning to draft below 20+ in 2023 anyway. My guess is that we'd need to go up to #13 (Browns).  As a 1st round pick, this is a 5 year answer to the center position.  Alternatively or additionally, pursue Ben Jones 7M who is a solid pass-defender and has played RG in the past.

I like alot of what you posted here, my question for a while to and many others on this board has been on all the love thrown at Linderbaum....is he really that good and cant miss C/G prospect?. I have never seen him play. 

[Whatever]

(02-18-2022, 11:44 AM)higgy100 Wrote: So he was correct is what you're saying.

Not really.  We have 2 more players we need to retain/replace, but we have $25 million more in cap space to do it with.

[MileHighGrowler]

(02-18-2022, 11:44 AM)higgy100 Wrote: So he was correct is what you're saying.

Shhh, that'll go to Fred's head! 

I think the real question is what positions specifically were FAs for both teams.  Starters, backups?  I haven't looked at the list, but I don't think we're worse (or much worse) off this year than they were last year.  There were questions after the SB last year on whether they'd be able to pull it all together enough to come back strong this year with their FA needs.  

[fredtoast]

(02-18-2022, 10:51 AM)Whatever Wrote: KC has WAYYYY more holes than we do...

Starting LT Orlando Brown
Starting RT Mike Remmers
Starting WR Mecole Hardman
WR 3 Byron Pringle
Starting Edge Melvin Ingram
Starting CB Chavarious Ward
Starting FS Honey Badger
Starting DT Jarran Reed

Not to mention key backups and rotational players like Wylie, Sorensen, McKinnon, etc.

I was talking about last off season when they re-built their O-line.

also remember that they got a starter in the 6th round.  That is just pure luck.

[fredtoast]

(02-18-2022, 11:18 AM)Whatever Wrote: KC had 23 guys hit FA last year.  We have 25 this year.

The highest paid of KC's 23 was Eric Fisher who got $8.4 a year from the Colts.

Sammy Watkins ($5 Million) was the only other one who got a contract at more than $3 million a year..

Compare those salaries ot what Bates, Uzo, Ogunjobi, Hill, and Spain are going to get.

[Whatever]

(02-18-2022, 04:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The highest paid of KC's 23 was Eric Fisher who got $8.4 a year from the Colts.

Sammy Watkins ($5 Million) was the only other one who got a contract at more than $3 million a year..

Compare those salaries ot what Bates, Uzo, Ogunjobi, Hill, and Spain are going to get.

Fisher was a Pro Bowl LT that took a 1 year prove it deal because he was injured and not going to be ready to start the season.  Schwartz, their All Pro RT, didn't play at all due to injury and is assumed to be retired.  

Not to mention the cap went down last year and is going up this year, so contract value is nowhere near a fair comparison.

[Joelist]

Expecting us to sign in their prime starter quality players for RT and RG is VERY realistic.

[casear2727]

(02-18-2022, 02:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was talking about last off season when they re-built their O-line.

also remember that they got a starter in the 6th round.  That is just pure luck.

Trey Smith was projected much higher than 6th on ability, but has health issues (blood clots).  It was more of a very low risk in the 6th than luck in my opinion.  I was hoping we would take him as high as the 4th....  he is really good.

[CanadianBengal]

(02-18-2022, 10:35 AM)sloSTI Wrote: Nobody thinks these vets would come here for slightly less money, after just playing in a SB? I think they have a solid foundation to build off of, and people should want to go to a contender and might sign here for a little less since they are close, than signing somewhere for more money and not have a realistic chance.

This theory will be tested before free agency hits. If Bates, CJ and a few of the other key free agents won't sign for a bit less to play here with a chance of winning and a great culture, then hard to believe others will be more willing.

I am not suggesting management low ball the players but would be nice to see Bates, CJ, Larry O take the lower end of their projected salary range.

One of the reasons NE was great all those years, was Brady took a bit less -which led to a few others taking a bit less --some did not but many did allowing sustained success.

If Jessie take $13.5 mil? Or CJ take $6.5 mil then they are messaging out to other players that they want to be here. If they hold out for max money  that will also send a message

[CanadianBengal]

(02-18-2022, 02:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I was talking about last off season when they re-built their O-line.

also remember that they got a starter in the 6th round.  That is just pure luck.

Your right Fred. Our O-line would look great too if Carmen performed like Humphrey and Hill performed like Smith. We added 3 olinemen in the draft last year and maybe they will pan out over time but they did not help last year.

Bengal management has done a great job the last two years. That being said there were many of us on this Board wanting more to be done for O-line. That doesn't mean drafting Sewell because there were other guys who were available that we could have brought in. I worried about how it would impact Joe's development not having a decent line --that proved to not be the issue as we developed fine. I never suspected that I would be complaining that not adding a couple of decent offensive lineman cost us the SB. 

The last two years they have drafted for O and used FA for D. This year a bit more balance is needed. Two good O-linemen (Daniels, Connor Williams, Norwell etc) and resigning most of our own would mean the team is better. They have done a good job supplementing the core off the discount rack the past couple of years too. Eli, Flowers, Ricardo Allen, grabbing Hill were all nice adds.

This is a young team --so they should get better
This is a young coaching staff -so they should get better

Continuity should also help so I am hoping that we only had a few key pieces and maintain continuity wherever possible and affordable 

WHO DEY!!

[fredtoast]

(02-18-2022, 05:10 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Trey Smith was projected much higher than 6th on ability, but has health issues (blood clots).  It was more of a very low risk in the 6th than luck in my opinion.  I was hoping we would take him as high as the 4th....  he is really good.

I am a UT fan.

Trey Smith is an absolute stud when healthy.