Are we being realistic with Free Agency expectations?

[Bengalbug]

(02-19-2022, 02:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I do agree with Fred that if we signed Thuney and not Hendrickson and Awuzie that we probably don't make the SB.

The Chiefs signed Thuney by making the 1st year cap hit low. They'll pay eventually and I doubt he sees the end of that contract as a Chief.

That’s something the bengals could have done as well.

[Bengalbug]

(02-20-2022, 12:06 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Plenty of good OL who are in their early 30's and never made it to Super Bowl.
Sign a couple on 2-year deals, as that's the big window before guys like Jonah Williams, Tee Higgins, and some others start coming up for their big deals.

I doubt Jonah gets a big deal, unless he moves to a position better suited for his skills (G OR RT). Even Good LTs don’t give up 8 sacks on a season. I believe Jonah should be the 3rd best Lineman on this team next year.

[QueenCity]

I would like to see the Bengals get creative with the Cap.... think the Saints and Chiefs have done crazy jobs manipulating it.

[Bengalbug]

(02-20-2022, 01:19 PM)QueenCity Wrote: I would like to see the Bengals get creative with the Cap.... think the Saints and Chiefs have done crazy jobs manipulating it.

Agree, the conservative approach isn’t suited for the window that is wide open.

[fredtoast]

(02-20-2022, 01:13 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Bro, please…we were 5-2.  Burrow was sacked 22 times at that point, on pace for 63 in the regular season (more than we ended up giving).  6 qbs got sacked 30 times or less over 15-17 games.  

The bengals at 5-2 (one loss being an OT loss to packers) had real playoff aspirations.  Are you telling me they couldn’t have done “something” to help get burrow protection?

Instead we sat on our hands, lost our RT and our OL before and after that loss hindered us throughout the rest of the season.  

We won in spite of a huge problem

The past is the past, but there was AMPLE opportunity.

The rest of us were talking about the offseason.  What great O-lineman became available when we were 5-2, and how would we have obtained him with less than $6 ,illion in cap space?

[fredtoast]

(02-20-2022, 01:21 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Agree, the conservative approach isn’t suited for the window that is wide open.

The "desperation" sacrifice-the-future approach also isn't suited for a team with so much young talent

[Bengalbug]

(02-20-2022, 01:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The rest of us were talking about the offseason.  What great O-lineman became available when we were 5-2, and how would we have obtained him with less than $6 ,illion in cap space?

Good question, and I’m not sure if one “became available”. Maybe the bengals hit the phones hard? Likely could have flipped a pick, reiff and Wayne’s (contract) for Tunsil.

[Bengalbug]

(02-20-2022, 01:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The "desperation" sacrifice-the-future approach also isn't suited for a team with so much young talent

You are right. No team ever wins a Super Bowl by trading a pick or two.

A quick google search shows that almost every recent Super Bowl winning team traded a future pick at the expense of a SB.

[fredtoast]

(02-20-2022, 01:36 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: A quick google search shows that almost every recent Super Bowl winning team traded a future pick at the expense of a SB.

If by "recent" you just mean the last two Super Bowl winning teams who had QBs over 33.

I am not talking about trading away 4th round picks.  I am talking about trading away first round picks.

[Bengalbug]

(02-20-2022, 01:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If by "recent" you just mean the last two Super Bowl winning teams who had QBs over 33.

I am not talking about trading away 4th round picks.  I am talking about trading away first round picks.

The chiefs traded for frank clark.

The patriots traded a future 3rd for Trent brown, Traded a 2nd for sanu

The eagles traded future 3rd and 4th for Darby and Jay ajayi

The broncos traded for Vernon Davis (6 and 7)

Want me to keep going? Maybe the teams win without these players. But they did win with them. No team on this list regrets any trades, that resulted in a Super Bowl. One super bowl win is better than 3-4 years of playoff exits… see Marino, rivers, etc

[fredtoast]

(02-20-2022, 01:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not talking about trading away 4th round picks.  I am talking about trading away first round picks.

(02-20-2022, 02:03 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: The chiefs traded for frank clark.

The patriots traded a future 3rd for Trent brown, Traded a 2nd for sanu

The eagles traded future 3rd and 4th for Darby and Jay ajayi

The broncos traded for Vernon Davis (6 and 7)

Want me to keep going? 

I want you to take some reading comprehension classes.

[ladeda]

(02-20-2022, 01:21 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Agree, the conservative approach isn’t suited for the window that is wide open.

  Correct, they need to go balls out for the next 3 years while Burrow is under a rookie contract.   Even with Chase and Burrow's extensions-- you can give them low cap hits the first couple of years, and really give the team a nice 5 year window before you have to take a step back for a year or two bc of the cap. 

 No biggie-- look @ NE--  3 SB's in 4 years.    Then a 10 year wait to win another SB-- and that was only bc Seattle didn't run Lynch from the 1 yard line.  Build the team, team gets expensive, then have to rebuild team again. 

 This is the Bengals time-- go balls out try to not win a SB, but win multiple SB's over the next 3-5 years.   It's going to cost the Bengals the promise of more guaranteed money and upfront money to get it done; but they can work the cap like other teams and maximize their chances over the next few years. 

 I will take 1 Super Bowl winand 6 losing seasons vs 7 playoff appearances and no Super Bowl. 

 

 

[Bengalbug]

(02-20-2022, 02:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I want you to take some reading comprehension classes.

I’m going to refrain conversing with you going forward. You pick and choose at will and are manipulative. Please do the same. Have a good day

[THE PISTONS]

(02-20-2022, 04:23 PM)ladeda Wrote:   Correct, they need to go balls out for the next 3 years while Burrow is under a rookie contract.   Even with Chase and Burrow's extensions-- you can give them low cap hits the first couple of years, and really give the team a nice 5 year window before you have to take a step back for a year or two bc of the cap. 

 No biggie-- look @ NE--  3 SB's in 4 years.    Then a 10 year wait to win another SB-- and that was only bc Seattle didn't run Lynch from the 1 yard line.  Build the team, team gets expensive, then have to rebuild team again. 

 This is the Bengals time-- go balls out try to not win a SB, but win multiple SB's over the next 3-5 years.   It's going to cost the Bengals the promise of more guaranteed money and upfront money to get it done; but they can work the cap like other teams and maximize their chances over the next few years. 

 I will take 1 Super Bowl winand 6 losing seasons vs 7 playoff appearances and no Super Bowl. 

 

 

You have to draft well and have guys contribute on rookie deals when you're paying a QB premium money.

[casear2727]

(02-20-2022, 01:29 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Good question, and I’m not sure if one “became available”.  Maybe the bengals hit the phones hard?  Likely could have flipped a pick, reiff and Wayne’s (contract) for Tunsil.

This is where having 6 people in player personnel vs >20 like every other team bites us in the butt.  Of course 3 1st round busts in 4 years and drafting only 1 quality olineman in the last 10 years are kinda proof too.

[Bengalbug]

(02-20-2022, 05:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You have to draft well and have guys contribute on rookie deals when you're paying a QB premium money.

Correct, but we are not paying premium money yet. Hence the reason to go big.

[Bengalbug]

(02-20-2022, 05:20 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This is where having 6 people in player personnel vs >20 like every other team bites us in the butt.  Of course 3 1st round busts in 4 years and drafting only 1 quality olineman in the last 10 years are kinda proof too.

Right. Carman may pan out to be good, jury is still out. There were a handful of prospects still on the board that were more “likely starter”.

Sam Cosmi and Creed Humphrey, just to name a few right after carman.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-20-2022, 06:27 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Right.  Carman may pan out to be good, jury is still out.  There were a handful of prospects still on the board that were more “likely starter”.

Sam Cosmi and Creed Humphrey, just to name a few right after carman.

Yep. I felt Carman was a reach. If he was a 3rd Round pick...I'd like it better.

[Bengalbug]

(02-20-2022, 06:48 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. I felt Carman was a reach. If he was a 3rd Round pick...I'd like it better.

It could still pan out, but wouldn’t bank on it. Needs a good offseason to start.

[casear2727]

Carmen might not be on our scouts and coaches as much as Mike Brown and Paul Alexander. Ive heard rumors that the pick was not unanimously loved by everyone in the building to put it mildly.

And there's this:

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/allbengals-insiders-plus/bengals-get-mike-browns-guy-an-inside-look-at-their-pursuit-of-jackson-carman