(03-12-2022, 07:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Steele actually played a lot at LT last year while Smith was out and he's about $17 Mil cheaper than Smith.
I've said numerous times; I'd give our 3rd for him, but then again I'm not Zac and have to explain it to the locker room.
Does anybody wonder why teams are not flooding the Cowboys will offers for this guy?
Steele was their swing tackle and Tyron Smith is all world.
There are reports that over 12 teams have talked with the Cowboys concerning Collins. Why do you NOT know this?
What will Zac explain to the locker room? Hey guys dont miss any drug test for a substance the NFL no longer tests for... and dont tell a tester you will "hook them up" if you test positive or miss a test for a substance that is no longer banned in the NFL....
(03-12-2022, 04:45 PM)Yogo Wrote: Cooper was had for peanuts because of his expensive contract. Collins contract is a steal for what he offers (top tier RT) at our area of need. You won't find that value (top tier RT) with any of our coming draft picks.
But you will find character problems and injury concerns and we dont need players who are going to possibly deter or hinder that.
(03-12-2022, 04:51 PM)casear2727 Wrote: So you cant name any player in the draft at #31 or later better than Collins?
Of course you cant. You didnt know if he was healthy this season. You didnt know how he played? You had no idea of his past injury or suspension. You had no idea of his insanely awesome contract that helps us get other free agents.
You just spew an uninformed opinion.
You have zero argument other than you just dont like or want the guy ...
I wont debate you for just not wanting the guy.
I've read articles on him I KNEW more than you think. But i'm not the one on here acting like i'm the GM YOU are. He has character issues and with his injury concerns our locker room doesn't need anyone who could possibly deter or hinder that no mater what position they play or COST. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one and move on.
(03-12-2022, 08:10 PM)pulses Wrote: I've read articles on him I KNEW more than you think. But i'm not the one on here acting like i'm the GM YOU are. He has character issues and with his injury concerns our locker room doesn't need anyone who could possibly deter or hinder that no mater what position they play or COST. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one and move on.
So thats why you asked if he was still injured and how he played this season?
He has had zero character issues in the locker room, I've spelled out his pre-nfl issues and his suspension. Anyone that thinks our locker room could be this easily swayed doesnt have much confidence in our players or our coach.
You must have totally freaked out with some of Marvin's players....
(03-12-2022, 08:10 PM)pulses Wrote: I've read articles on him I KNEW more than you think. But i'm not the one on here acting like i'm the GM YOU are. He has character issues and with his injury concerns our locker room doesn't need anyone who could possibly deter or hinder that no mater what position they play or COST. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one and move on.
He was injured in 2020 but played at a high level in 2021 that should elevate any concern about his hip injury. Other than that He's been healthy.
(03-12-2022, 08:16 PM)casear2727 Wrote: So thats why you asked if he was still injured and how he played this season?
He has had zero character issues in the locker room, I've spelled out his pre-nfl issues and his suspension. Anyone that thinks our locker room could be this easily swayed doesnt have much confidence in our players or our coach.
You must have totally freaked out with some of Marvin's players....
I didn't ask ANY of that you have me confused with someone else there dippy boy
I differ on calling this guy elite, top tier, premier or no-brainer or other such terms. It’s not true. It’s also not that far off but at the end of the day, it’s still not true. He is by my count, the 7th highest paid RT in the league. That maybe slightly higher than I would put him as the 7th best RT. Probably 8 to 10. That’s still significant but he has never sniffed a pro-bowl and probably never will. My dominant concern is his run blocking is so much better than his pass blocking (like so many of the Bengals and frankly, other FA’s). Perhaps the biggest gap amongst RT’s in the league. JB needs elite pass blockers and sadly, that seems to be lost on our FO. That’s also why I like Andrew Norwell at G, very good pass blocker. And cheap. JB>>JM.
All I am saying is it’s not the end of the world if we don’t get him.
Side note: I expect Ryan Jenson gets $15 million per in his next contract. And James Daniels $12 million per in his. There is a lot of cap space on teams with crappy lines.
(03-12-2022, 09:04 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: I differ on calling this guy elite, top tier, premier or no-brainer or other such terms. It’s not true. It’s also not that far off but at the end of the day, it’s still not true. He is by my count, the 7th highest paid RT in the league. That maybe slightly higher than I would put him as the 7th best RT. Probably 8 to 10. That’s still significant but he has never sniffed a pro-bowl and probably never will. My dominant concern is his run blocking is so much better than his pass blocking (like so many of the Bengals and frankly, other FA’s). Perhaps the biggest gap amongst RT’s in the league. JB needs elite pass blockers and sadly, that seems to be lost on our FO. That’s also why I like Andrew Norwell at G, very good pass blocker. And cheap. JB>>JM.
All I am saying is it’s not the end of the world if we don’t get him.
Side note: I expect Ryan Jenson gets $15 million per in his next contract. And James Daniels $12 million per in his. There is a lot of cap space on teams with crappy lines.
That great run blocking likely wins us a SB getting that 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1....just saying.
(03-12-2022, 09:04 PM)CoachGeorge Wrote: I differ on calling this guy elite, top tier, premier or no-brainer or other such terms. It’s not true. It’s also not that far off but at the end of the day, it’s still not true. He is by my count, the 7th highest paid RT in the league. That maybe slightly higher than I would put him as the 7th best RT. Probably 8 to 10. That’s still significant but he has never sniffed a pro-bowl and probably never will. My dominant concern is his run blocking is so much better than his pass blocking (like so many of the Bengals and frankly, other FA’s). Perhaps the biggest gap amongst RT’s in the league. JB needs elite pass blockers and sadly, that seems to be lost on our FO. That’s also why I like Andrew Norwell at G, very good pass blocker. And cheap. JB>>JM.
All I am saying is it’s not the end of the world if we don’t get him.
Side note: I expect Ryan Jenson gets $15 million per in his next contract. And James Daniels $12 million per in his. There is a lot of cap space on teams with crappy lines.
Interesting take.
Salaries are kind of a difficult measure due to when they were signed, bonuses, etc.
That said, in 2019 Collins signed a 5 year $50M extension with $35M Guarantee - the largest for any RT ever, and made him a top 5 highest paid tackle in the league, not just RTs.
His numbers are a little lower than his pre-injury numbers in 2019, which were crazy, but 2021 grades are still solid coming off an injury.
Pass Blocking
It looks like 4 RTs rank higher than him with pass blocking:
Johnson at 82.6
Moton 79.4
O'Neil at 78.1
Havenstein 77.4
Collins was 74.3
(Jonah 67.5, Reiff 58.4, Prince 39.7)
I'm not sure the exact stat but one Cowboy's insider podcast mentioned Dak held the ball the longest or an extremely long time (as does our boy), not sure exactly but I'll check if I get time.
Run Blocking:
Collins is at 89.7 3rd best amongst all Tackles in the NFL
Compared to the list above:
Havenstein 82.2
Johnson 76.8
Moton 70.7
O'Neil 65.9
Overall
Havenstein 83.4
Johnson 83.3. (Johnson caught a TD pass that gives him a bit of a bump)
Collins 80.2
Moton 77.5
O'Neil 73.7
*Johnson is also 3 years older than Collins and Havenstein 2 years older.
"My dominant concern is his run blocking is so much better than his pass blocking"
There is a gap but not because he isnt very good at pass blocking, his rush block is simply overwhelming and is on average 20 pts higher than the next 4 RTs...with better passing grades.
This guy is elite. His contract is almost unbelievable.
I dont think I see your point on Collins though, Coach? I absolutely agree with Norwell.
I have some questions on Collins that have not been mentioned here and trying to learn more about and confirm, but the guy is very good and changes our offense in my opinion.
Salaries are kind of a difficult measure due to when they were signed, bonuses, etc.
That said, in 2019 he signed a 5 year $50M extension with $35M Guarantee - the largest for any RT ever, and made him a top 5 highest paid tackle in the league, not just RTs.
His numbers are little lower than his pre-injury numbers in 2019 which were crazy but 2021 are still solid coming off an injury.
Pass Blocking
It looks like 4 RTs rank higher than him with pass blocking:
Johnson at 82.6
Morton 79.4
O'Neil at 78.1
Havenstein 77.4
Collins was 74.3
I'm not sure the stat but one Cowboy's insider podcast mentioned Dak held the ball the longest or an extremely long time (as does our boy), not sure exactly but I'll check if I get time.
Run Blocking:
Collins is at 89.7 3rd best amongst all Tackles in the NFL
Compared to the list above:
Havenstein 82.2
Johnson 76.8
Morton 70.7
O'Neil 65.9
Overall
Johnson 83.3. (Johnson caught a TD pass that gives him a bit of a bump)
Collins 80.2
Morton 77.5
O'Neil 73.7
*Johnson is also 3 years older than Collins and Havenstein 2 years older.
"My dominant concern is his run blocking is so much better than his pass blocking"
There is a gap but not because he isnt vey good at pass blocking, his rush block is simply overwhelming and is on average 20 pts higher than the next 4 RTs...with better passing grades.
This guy is elite. His contract is almost unbelievable.
I dont think I see your point on Collins though, Coach? I absolutely agree with Norwell.
I have some questions on Collins that have not been mentioned here and trying to learn more about and confirm, but the guy is very good and changes our offense in my opinion.
His ability or his contribution to the team would be excellent. He missed 20-21 straight games due to injury and suspension. If we give away a third rounder and second rounder we give away a potential Higgins and Logan Wilson. I’d rather draft at #31 a tackle and go get a top center and guard in FA.
(03-12-2022, 08:16 PM)casear2727 Wrote: He has had zero character issues in the locker room, I've spelled out his pre-nfl issues and his suspension. Anyone that thinks our locker room could be this easily swayed doesnt have much confidence in our players or our coach.
'As CowboysSI.com has often reported, the Cowboys are disappointed by Collins’ general behavior.'
'But dump a blue-chip talent in the prime of his career? A protector (and close pal) of Cowboys QB Dak Prescott? If La’el Collins is being shown the door, it speaks to the deep decline in the organization's belief in the player.'
(03-12-2022, 10:08 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: His ability or his contribution to the team would be excellent. He missed 20-21 straight games due to injury and suspension. If we give away a third rounder and second rounder we give away a potential Higgins and Logan Wilson. I’d rather draft at #31 a tackle and go get a top center and guard in FA.
I respect your opinion.
He missed an entire season, which was his decision as he could have played but elected not to wait with surgery (it seems he may have known back them he was going to be Bengal in 2022 and wanted to be fully healed up and ready. *This is Unconfirmed)
His suspension is "meh" to me.
As to drafting a tackle, I will again remind everyone that we have drafted exactly ONE decent olineman, not just tackle but oline period, in the last DECADE... and he gave up 8 sacks this season...... I do not trust our oline scouting department.
No on earth would give away Collins for Wilson. And I doubt it would be unanimous that Higgins > Collins.
That said, if the deal is the #31 pick we actually get a second 2nd rounder at 56 and another later pick in the 5th or 6th. Very good if you ask me.
I do not see any way the trade is straight up Collins for #31, although I would probably do it... but you see how crazy I am about protecting Burrow and providing a bulldozer for Mixon.
(03-12-2022, 10:23 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This is what I was inferring to in a couple of posts regarding other concerns I had and trying to get more info.
Rumor has it he came into 2020 out of shape, had the hip issue and decided to have the surgery primarily because he wasnt ready to play.
Another rumor is that Collins didnt feel the Cowboys supported him enough when he fought the suspension and things have been sideways since then...
So these are the red flags I think the Bengals should be concerned about. But hopefully a fresh start and great locker room will help.....
If the Bengals do land him, I sure as hell hope so.
(03-12-2022, 10:33 PM)casear2727 Wrote: You guys are going to cause me to babysit this big ass beast to make sure doesn't screw up and make me look bad...lol
Watch this guy brother...
I've seen a lot of him going back to LSU. It has nothing to do with the talent side of things.
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