The Current State of the OL Room

[sandwedge]

(05-09-2022, 05:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And it will cost relatively nothing to move on from Adeniji in preseason if he doesn't make it.
Bengals have plenty of cap space to add more players if they wanted without needing to cut anyone right now.

I think he is a better tackle than guard to be honest. I think he had to play guard out of necessity last season. He wasn't very good there.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-09-2022, 09:51 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Agreed, it's easy to see why the Bengals drafted him if you start checking out his NDSU footage. To be concise, he's a "glass eater" that the Bengals want for '22 - 23. Some of the scouting reports list his primary weakness as, "level of competition" but I'm at a point where I can dismiss that or else the NFL would never have successful players from schools that aren't from the Power Five conferences.

Volson, at minimum, is going to increase the OL depth while competing for the final starting spot.

If level of competition is Volson's only weakness we might see a damn good Guard on down the road. It might take a little
time with him as it does with all rookies. Still like you say, looking at his NDSU footage he just looks like a man amongst boys
out there. Great technique, power, plays mean yet disciplined, can adjust to more than one player rushing against him etc.

(05-09-2022, 10:14 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: For anyone calling to cut any OL, why would the Bengals do that prior to TC and prior to preseason. I know hard concept to understand, but players do improve. Also, they may improve a lot and still not be able to beat out others so maybe we could trade them for a 6th or 7th round pick verus cutting them.

The point is I don't get the definitive cut anyone right now, even Wilson who I think will have a battle to keep his roster spot in 2022. But who knows now if we have injuries or if he can beat out the young guys drafted at his position. We save 2 million in cap space if we do cut him.

We also don't know the Bates contract situation and how it will play out. The players in danger are not highly paid so it is not like we gain a lot of cap space cutting any young OL.

True, Adeniji just looked so bad in the postseason some want to cut the guy as he plays on roller skates.

I understand this as I don't see much chance of improvement with him but he was injured so that could of been his excuse.

(05-09-2022, 05:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: And it will cost relatively nothing to move on from Adeniji in preseason if he doesn't make it.
Bengals have plenty of cap space to add more players if they wanted without needing to cut anyone right now.

True once again.

(05-09-2022, 08:40 PM)Joelist Wrote: I'm still trying to process some of the strange comments on the forum about the OL room, such as panning all our OL picks last draft because some were Day 3. In 2021 we took 3 OL in the deepest OL draft in memory - this is not a bad thing. We added Volson this offseason and when you look at him as G instead of T his scores skyrocket. Hill, Smith and yes Carman all flashed more than once but the reality last season is we were taking a chance with the depth room having virtually no NFL experience. Alas we had a number of injuries (as usual for us concentrated in one position group) at first RG (Sua Filo then Carman then Adeniji even ) and RT when Reiff got hurt was killer. These forced our raw draft picks into the lineup for large numbers of reps and naturally they suffered.

Let's see how the line shakes out for opening day. LG is the only openish spot and I still am expecting Spain back at some point if for no other reason so we have seasoned depth.

I am expecting an O-line of this come opening day if Carman is having any trouble with his back...

LT - Jonah Williams/D'Ante Smith
LG - Jackson Carman/Volson/D'Ante
C - Ted Karras/Trey Hill/Ben Brown
RG - Alex Cappa/Reese/Carman/Spain
RT - La'el Collins/D'Ante Smith/Carman

I really like both Volson and Carman but it is going to be a battle at LG. D'Ante will be working his ass off too.

(05-09-2022, 08:43 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: We are trying to make a run at the Super Bowl, being mediocre is not good enough.

I don't think Joelist is saying we should be settling for mediocrity, nor did we with our FA and Drafting Volson...

We are muchly improved from last year, muchly.

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2022, 12:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am expecting an O-line of this come opening day if Carman is having any trouble with his back...

LT - Jonah Williams/D'Ante Smith
LG - Cordell Volson/Jackson Carman/Spain/D'Ante
C - Ted Karras/Trey Hill/Ben Brown
RG - Alex Cappa/Reese/Carman/Spain
RT - La'el Collins/D'Ante Smith/Carman

I like the Volson pick, but if we have a 4th round rookie starting on our O-line then we have problems.

[fredtoast]

(05-09-2022, 08:43 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: We are trying to make a run at the Super Bowl, being mediocre is not good enough.

Then it is a good thing Joelist never said being mediocre is good enough, right?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-11-2022, 12:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I like the Volson pick, but if we have a 4th round rookie starting on our O-line then we have problems.

Why? The Chiefs started your boy this season, and he was a 6th round rookie.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-11-2022, 12:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I like the Volson pick, but if we have a 4th round rookie starting on our O-line then we have problems.

Yep, it either means:
1) The 4th round rookie is just so incredibly good that he really should have been drafted (way) earlier,
2) The other guys are just worse that a 4th round rookie was able to supplant them, and/or
3) An injury happened

Regardless, it'd be hard to get excited about a 4th round rookie starting on the OL until we actually would get to see him play well in some regular season games.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-09-2022, 08:43 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: We are trying to make a run at the Super Bowl, being mediocre is not good enough.

Which is likely why the Bengals signed 3 OL in free agency, veteran players with specific skills and traits that they were looking for.  As for the developmental picks?  You have to have young, up and coming talent developing on your roster, as it is simply too costly to expect to be able to keep a star quality player at every position on the roster.

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2022, 01:11 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Why? The Chiefs started your boy this season, and he was a 6th round rookie.

Trey Smith was a 3 time All-SEC player who dropped in the draft due to a medical condition.

If that was Volson's story then I might be more excited, but it is not even close.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-11-2022, 01:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Trey Smith was a 3 time All-SEC player who dropped in the draft due to a medical condition.

If that was Volson's story then I might be more excited, but it is not even close.

I’m not sure I’d be anymore “excited” about Carman as the starter. I would almost rather D’Ante Smith or Volson beat him out. At least we’d know they earned it, and it wasn’t a matter of getting the chance because of where they were drafted.

[*ochocincos*]

(05-11-2022, 01:50 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I’m not sure I’d be anymore “excited” about Carman as the starter. I would almost rather D’Ante Smith or Volson beat him out. At least we’d know they earned it, and it wasn’t a matter of getting the chance because of where they were drafted.

I honestly see no way of D'Ante Smith ever becoming a starter until he can add and keep on bulk.
Leading up to the draft, Smith clearly couldn't handle power, of which many believed because he plays at 295 lbs or less.
Bengals site lists Smith at 294 lbs, but I believe that was from last year.
Some believe he's done a good job bulking up this offseason based on some of those weight room videos, but it might be just on the angles shown. We'll find out when they do their training camp weigh-ins how much bigger he's gotten.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(05-11-2022, 02:01 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I honestly see no way of D'Ante Smith ever becoming a starter until he can add and keep on bulk.
Leading up to the draft, Smith clearly couldn't handle power, of which many believed because he plays at 295 lbs or less.
Bengals site lists Smith at 294 lbs, but I believe that was from last year.
Some believe he's done a good job bulking up this offseason based on some of those weight room videos, but it might be just on the angles shown. We'll find out when they do their training camp weigh-ins how much bigger he's gotten.

I can’t imagine putting on weight being that hard. Especially with access to NFL trainers and weight rooms. But we’ll see.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-11-2022, 12:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I like the Volson pick, but if we have a 4th round rookie starting on our O-line then we have problems.

Maybe, I want Carman to start there and play very well. I just cannot help but believe people like Sunset about back problems.

Carman is young though, lets hope the back no longer bothers him. If this is the case I think he could be a great LG. But I cannot
help but love Cordell Volson just the same. Dude looks dominant in every clip I watch of him, Carman better watch out and play like
the stud 2nd rounder I expected him to be is all I can say. That is why I loved the Volson pick so much, it really pushes Carman.

BTW, if the back problems are behind Carman I expect him to be the starting LG come opening day.

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2022, 01:50 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:  At least we’d know they earned it, and it wasn’t a matter of getting the chance because of where they were drafted.

Ridiculous argument.

You seriously hope that none of our high draft picks get to start?

My guess is that this logic only applies to Carman because you don't like him.

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2022, 02:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote:  I just cannot help but believe people like Sunset about back problems.

This is not meant as an insult to Sunset in any way, but having a problem with your back does not make you qualified to give an opinion on Carman's problem. Sunset has never seen an MRI or even examined Carman's back.

So, for now I will trust the people who graduated from medical school and actually examined Carman's back.  If there was a serious problem I believe we would have taken an O-lineman before the 4th round.

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-11-2022, 01:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Which is likely why the Bengals signed 3 OL in free agency, veteran players with specific skills and traits that they were looking for.  As for the developmental picks?  You have to have young, up and coming talent developing on your roster, as it is simply too costly to expect to be able to keep a star quality player at every position on the roster.

I wouldn't call anyone on our offensive line a star except La'el Collins who is a former pro bowler, Jonah Williams is above average and Karras and Cappa are solid but hardly stars.  I think any 1 really bad player can make an offensive line below average.  Just look at Eric Ghiacuic, Cedric Ogbuehi, and Adeniji for example and how much they impacted our offensive lines.  1 weak link can make the entire offensive line look bad even if everyone else is doing their job.

[AtomicBlaze]

(05-11-2022, 02:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is not meant as an insult to Sunset in any way, but having a problem with your back does not make you qualified to give an opinion on Carman's problem. Sunset has never seen an MRI or even examined Carman's back.

So, for now I will trust the people who graduated from medical school and actually examined Carman's back.  If there was a serious problem I believe we would have taken an O-lineman before the 4th round.

  I don't think you can always tell much from an MRI, many people have herniated discs that do not cause issues, I think it has to be hitting a nerve to cause massive amounts of pain.  We would probably have to hear from Carman himself to know how much of an issue it is.  I would guess that he would be afraid to admit if it was an issue since he would probably be cut from the team if he couldn't play this year.

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2022, 04:44 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote: I wouldn't call anyone on our offensive line a star except La'el Collins who is a former pro bowler, 

I don't think Collins has ever been selected to a Pro Bowl team.

[Hammerstripes]

(05-11-2022, 04:49 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:   I don't think you can always tell much from an MRI, many people have herniated discs that do not cause issues, I think it has to be hitting a nerve to cause massive amounts of pain.  We would probably have to hear from Carman himself to know how much of an issue it is.  I would guess that he would be afraid to admit if it was an issue since he would probably be cut from the team if he couldn't play this year.

This is spot on.  I've sold spine implants for over 15 years and we always have the MRI and CT scans up in the OR when the surgeon is operating.  There are some backs that look like someone bent them into a pretzel and the patient only has a mild issue requiring a small procedure.  You then have other ones that don't look very serious, but the patient has horrific pain and can't feel their foot.

[fredtoast]

(05-11-2022, 04:49 PM)AtomicBlaze Wrote:  I don't think you can always tell much from an MRI,

(05-11-2022, 05:35 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: This is spot on.  

You guys crack me up.  I am sure that if you had a back problem and the doctor requested an MRI you would just tell him to skip it because it is worthless.


Amazing how many guys we have here who are smarter than doctors.  Just because you guys can't read an MRI does not mean that doctors can't.  If they are worthless then why do the doctors have them in the operating room?

[*ochocincos*]

(05-11-2022, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Ridiculous argument.

You seriously hope that none of our high draft picks get to start?

My guess is that this logic only applies to Carman because you don't like him.

It is an odd hate for a player who didn't allow a single sack on 298 pass block attempts (regular season + postseason).
Compare that to Adeniji, who allowed 9 sacks on just 501 pass blocking snaps.

We should definitely hope that Carman actually pans out vs becoming another Drew Sample.
Rd 2 picks should not be perennial backups.