La'El Collins opt out

[Bengalholic]

(02-22-2023, 03:37 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Please cut Jonah Williams, for sure Collins,both are horrible and Williams cannot handle the big powerful D studs, and Collins cannot handle fast outside D
-linemen.You can find their replacements in free agency.Number one job is to put together a powerful O-line that can come to training camp and jell.They must protect the number one man. Joe Burrow is getting killed and our  AFC is no joke,Toughest in all of NFL.

Jonah's money is fully guaranteed.

[Housh]

I keep revisiting our T situation and ima say something ppl aren’t gonna like



I don’t think we are signing another top money guy

And i don’t think we’re using a 1st or a 2nd on T either.

Our best case imo is getting a 5M type guy for 1 year and drafting T in the 2nd or 3rd.

[Bengalholic]

(02-22-2023, 04:12 PM)Housh Wrote: I keep revisiting our T situation and ima say something ppl aren’t gonna like



I don’t think we are signing another top money guy

And i don’t think we’re using a 1st or a 2nd on T either.

Our best case imo is getting a 5M type guy for 1 year and drafting T in the 2nd or 3rd.

I don't think you need a top guy honestly. For somewhere in the 8-9m range, you can probably land 2 veterans that can play multiple positions - Jermaine Eluemunor (free agent) and Matt Feiler (expected release). 

Eluemunor is a former Raven and Patriot who started for the Raiders this year. He's 28 and has played mostly RG and RT in his career. He saw limited action prior to 2020, but had a 75.3 grade this season in 940 snaps. The biggest negative was that he had 10 penalties in 17 starts. He's projected to get a deal in the 3.5-4m range, and while he's not top tier guy, he's definitely adequate as a starter and a huge improvement as depth.

Matt Feiler is a the former Steelers linemen who is projected by most LA beat writers to be released by the Chargers. He had a very tough start to last year in his 2nd season there, but got better as the year went along, although never looking quite as good as previous years. He's a guy I really wanted the Bengals to sign a couple years ago because he can plat LG, RG and RT. He knows AFC North football and he shouldn't cost much...maybe a 1 yr 4-5m type of deal. 

This would allow them to move on from Collins at the soonest they're able to, and allow Eluemunor and Feiler to battle it out for the RT spot, with the guy who doesn't win providing tremendous depth and versatility...something that the line definitely needs, addressing 2 needs relatively cheaply, and also giving you insurance if Volson struggles.

Then, you could grab a guy like Carter Warren from Pitt to groom at LT. It opens up the draft, and doesn't force the Bengals to pick a lineman early...which is probably a good thing considering recent history.

[grampahol]

(02-20-2023, 03:31 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: The smack on Volson is some of the dumbest shit I’ve seen.

How many NFL caliber players do you think he faced while playing at NDSU?

I saw a rookie 4th round pick from a small school holding his own and at times bullying guys. And he wasn’t a penalty machine and seemed to do very well with the mental aspect.

He’ll be an upper echelon G in the league this year.

HA! I agree 100%.. Volson did wonderful compared with the previous season with whatsisface who wasn't even in the league last year. Some of you act as if the 4th round rookie at a new position should have been in the ROY conversation or else he's trash.. Get a grip. It's almost like saying Lou should be sh*tcanned because he wasn't hired for the HC job in Arizona.. Mercy! I'm not perfect so I should be executed before dawn even breaks...just in case..  

[Soonerpeace]

(02-22-2023, 04:12 PM)Housh Wrote: I keep revisiting our T situation and ima say something ppl aren’t gonna like



I don’t think we are signing another top money guy

And i don’t think we’re using a 1st or a 2nd on T either.

Our best case imo is getting a 5M type guy for 1 year and drafting T in the 2nd or 3rd.

I think it depends if we resign Hurst. If we do I think they go with best available of a position of need. If there’s a tackle they like I definitely think they grab him.

[Soonerpeace]

(02-22-2023, 03:37 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Please cut Jonah Williams, for sure Collins,both are horrible and Williams cannot handle the big powerful D studs, and Collins cannot handle fast outside D
-linemen.You can find their replacements in free agency.Number one job is to put together a powerful O-line that can come to training camp and jell.They must protect the number one man. Joe Burrow is getting killed and our  AFC is no joke,Toughest in all of NFL.

He’s guaranteed and not going anywhere

[*bfine32*]

(02-22-2023, 03:19 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Did anyone find anything definitive about whether Collins can be cut or not? I know they can cut him at the end of preseason, whether he's still injured or not...but how about before then? 

I was under the impression that an injured player couldn't be cut during the offseason, but Dehner and Morrison both had him as one of their offseason cuts, and Jake Liscow said he could be released while injured but it would reduce the cap savings from 6m to 4m?

Extremely confusing. 

As I read it, He cannot be cut during the league year in which he was injured. But he can be cut and only the fully guaranteed owed in the following league year. The new league year starts the 6th Wednesday after the Superbowl. In this year 15 Mar 23 

[samhain]

(02-22-2023, 04:12 PM)Housh Wrote: I keep revisiting our T situation and ima say something ppl aren’t gonna like



I don’t think we are signing another top money guy

And i don’t think we’re using a 1st or a 2nd on T either.

Our best case imo is getting a 5M type guy for 1 year and drafting T in the 2nd or 3rd.

I agree for the most part.

The only line of thinking that prompts them to pursue a legit FA tackle is this: 
Next year they will either pay Jonah, another unnamed free agent tackle, or draft a rookie.  

One way or the other, a tackle has be accounted for, and I'm not sure how they go about it.

To be really honest, I'm not sure the guys out there on the market this year warrant a huge commitment.  If McGlinchey is the top guy, is he really that much better than Jonah?  I'm not so sure.  

There's just no guy out there that I see as a dude that's going improve things enough to warrant the commitment.  It would make everyone happy in the offseason, but IMO even McGlinchey would underwhelm when they start playing actual games.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-22-2023, 04:36 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I don't think you need a top guy honestly. For somewhere in the 8-9m range, you can probably land 2 veterans that can play multiple positions - Jermaine Eluemunor (free agent) and Matt Feiler (expected release). 

Eluemunor is a former Raven and Patriot who started for the Raiders this year. He's 28 and has played mostly RG and RT in his career. He saw limited action prior to 2020, but had a 75.3 grade this season in 940 snaps. The biggest negative was that he had 10 penalties in 17 starts. He's projected to get a deal in the 3.5-4m range, and while he's not top tier guy, he's definitely adequate as a starter and a huge improvement as depth.

Matt Feiler is a the former Steelers linemen who is projected by most LA beat writers to be released by the Chargers. He had a very tough start to last year in his 2nd season there, but got better as the year went along, although never looking quite as good as previous years. He's a guy I really wanted the Bengals to sign a couple years ago because he can plat LG, RG and RT. He knows AFC North football and he shouldn't cost much...maybe a 1 yr 4-5m type of deal. 

This would allow them to move on from Collins at the soonest they're able to, and allow Eluemunor and Feiler to battle it out for the RT spot, with the guy who doesn't win providing tremendous depth and versatility...something that the line definitely needs, addressing 2 needs relatively cheaply, and also giving you insurance if Volson struggles.

Then, you could grab a guy like Carter Warren from Pitt to groom at LT. It opens up the draft, and doesn't force the Bengals to pick a lineman early...which is probably a good thing considering recent history.

Nice solutions Holic. I also wanted Feiler years ago right with you. Think he would fit in here better than he did with the Chargers.

Eluemunor would have to clean up those penalties though and think he might here. Know nothing about Carter Warren, is he a talent 
but just raw or something similar to D'Ante Smith?

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(02-22-2023, 03:37 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: Please cut Jonah Williams, for sure Collins,both are horrible and Williams cannot handle the big powerful D studs, and Collins cannot handle fast outside D
-linemen.You can find their replacements in free agency.Number one job is to put together a powerful O-line that can come to training camp and jell.They must protect the number one man. Joe Burrow is getting killed and our  AFC is no joke,Toughest in all of NFL.

Cutting Jonah would be incredibly stupid. Mind-numbingly dumb. If we cut him, his FULL salary still counts against the cap. So we cannot use the money OR the player. No way we do that.

The hope is he can stay healthy, and his poor performance is partially due to playing through the dislocated knee. Carman showed enough that playing a clearly hobbled or underperforming Williams should not happen this year. An open competition at LT is fine with me.

The guys we need to upgrade are Adeniji/Smith and Scharping's spot. Or possibly Hill. I am not letting go of any of the guys that I know can play at a least meh starter level (or better) when healthy. Jonah, Cappa, Karras, Collins, Volson, and yes, Carman, are all in that boat for me. Not without an adequate replacement in hand AND the ability to reinvest some cash back into the team.

While I would not rule out a trade up to get a LT, I think it would be costly and not a good use of resources. We cannot reinvest Jonah's $12.6 in the team and we'd be blocking Carman. I think a RT guy late Day 1 or Day 2-3 is much more likely. The big trade up is more likely when we can cut Jonah loose and reinvest the $$ elsewhere. So NEXT year. 

[casear2727]

(02-23-2023, 05:40 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Cutting Jonah would be incredibly stupid. Mind-numbingly dumb. If we cut him, his FULL salary still counts against the cap. So we cannot use the money OR the player. No way we do that.

The hope is he can stay healthy, and his poor performance is partially due to playing through the dislocated knee. Carman showed enough that playing a clearly hobbled or underperforming Williams should not happen this year. An open competition at LT is fine with me.

The guys we need to upgrade are Adeniji/Smith and Scharping's spot. Or possibly Hill. I am not letting go of any of the guys that I know can play at a least meh starter level (or better) when healthy. Jonah, Cappa, Karras, Collins, Volson, and yes, Carman, are all in that boat for me. Not without an adequate replacement in hand AND the ability to reinvest some cash back into the team.

While I would not rule out a trade up to get a LT, I think it would be costly and not a good use of resources. We cannot reinvest Jonah's $12.6 in the team and we'd be blocking Carman. I think a RT guy late Day 1 or Day 2-3 is much more likely. The big trade up is more likely when we can cut Jonah loose and reinvest the $$ elsewhere. So NEXT year. 

Did you really use my phrase "Mind-numbingly"?  Lol, I have used it for years on here , and have no idea if it is even a real word.  But it is perfect for comments like that, LOL... great minds.

[*rfaulk34*]

(02-23-2023, 06:21 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Did you really use my phrase "Mind-numbingly"?  Lol, I have used it for years on here , and have no idea if it is even a real word.  But it is perfect for comments like that, LOL... great minds.

Sorry. Not nearly as good as "bottles the mind". 

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(02-23-2023, 06:21 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Did you really use my phrase "Mind-numbingly"?  Lol, I have used it for years on here , and have no idea if it is even a real word.  But it is perfect for comments like that, LOL... great minds.

Oh, it is a real word! Or two words? 

[*bfine32*]

(02-22-2023, 06:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I read it, He cannot be cut during the league year in which he was injured. But he can be cut and only the fully guaranteed owed in the following league year. The new league year starts the 6th Wednesday after the Superbowl. In this year 15 Mar 23 

I talked to Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller about this today on air.

PK said: "Of course, you can cut them or else you'd have a bunch of injured players eating up your cap". He then said a lot also depends on the structure of the contract.

Jim Miller said: "But the player can file a grievance. I did it in my career"

So that cleared up very little.

I will say with Tenn recently parting ways with Taylor Lewan throws out the whole "must wait until the new league year" assumption.

So who knows a former NFL player and a former NFL GM just muddied the waters.

Also at the end of the call I asked their opinion of John Michael-Schmitz while they were down scouting the Senior Bowl. PK absolutely loves him, so throw around whatever term you want, but I'm hoping the kid is there at 28 and we find a new role for Volston other than starting LG. 

[007BengalsFan]

Jonah cant be cut because his contract is fully guaranteed but he can be traded and it wouldnt count anything against the cap. I would trade Jonah for a bag of peanuts if someone would do it

[007BengalsFan]

and it wouldnt have to be real peanuts. I would take a bag of circus peanuts

[007BengalsFan]

(02-22-2023, 04:36 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Eluemunor is a former Raven and Patriot who started for the Raiders this year. He's 28 and has played mostly RG and RT in his career. He saw limited action prior to 2020, but had a 75.3 grade this season in 940 snaps. The biggest negative was that he had 10 penalties in 17 starts. He's projected to get a deal in the 3.5-4m range, and while he's not top tier guy, he's definitely adequate as a starter and a huge improvement as depth.

Eluemunor doesnt sound like a bad pickup if we could get him for 3.4-4M


Kelvin Beachum might also be worth looking at RT for depth.  He is getting long in the tooth but still might be able to help.  According to PFF:

"Beachum earned his 10th straight season-long pass-blocking grade above 70.0 and showed few signs of slowing down at 33 years old, logging over 1,100 snaps with a revolving door of lineman teammates at each of the other four positions all season long. He's limited as a run blocker, and that won't change, but you know what you're going to get with Beachum at right tackle, and you're likely going to get tremendous value considering he's coming off a two-year, $4 million deal signed in 2021."

[casear2727]

(02-24-2023, 12:06 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Jonah cant be cut because his contract is fully guaranteed but he can be traded and it wouldnt count anything against the cap.  I would trade Jonah for a bag of peanuts if someone would do it

Jonah can definitely be cut...... it would just be stupid AF.

[casear2727]

(02-23-2023, 09:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I talked to Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller about this today on air.

PK said: "Of course, you can cut them or else you'd have a bunch of injured players eating up your cap". He then said a lot also depends on the structure of the contract.

Jim Miller said: "But the player can file a grievance. I did it in my career"

So that cleared up very little.

I will say with Tenn recently parting ways with Taylor Lewan throws out the whole "must wait until the new league year" assumption.

So who knows a former NFL player and a former NFL GM just muddied the waters.

Also at the end of the call I asked their opinion of John Michael-Schmitz while they were down scouting the Senior Bowl. PK absolutely loves him, so throw around whatever term you want, but I'm hoping the kid is there at 28 and we find a new role for Volston other than starting LG. 

Pat is full of it, PA went hard on protecting injured players several years ago.

I really like John Michael-Schmitz - could be the next Creed Humphrey.  Avila is another guy, he could play 2 years at G then switch back to C if we dont keep Karras.

O'Cyrus Torrence is a guy that I'm not sure I pass on either.  He could be a really good player quickly.  We need tackle help but if we can get the 3 IOL strong, it would be a great start.  

[Bengalholic]

(02-23-2023, 09:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I talked to Pat Kirwan and Jim Miller about this today on air.

PK said: "Of course, you can cut them or else you'd have a bunch of injured players eating up your cap". He then said a lot also depends on the structure of the contract.

Jim Miller said: "But the player can file a grievance. I did it in my career"

So that cleared up very little.

I will say with Tenn recently parting ways with Taylor Lewan throws out the whole "must wait until the new league year" assumption.

So who knows a former NFL player and a former NFL GM just muddied the waters.

Also at the end of the call I asked their opinion of John Michael-Schmitz while they were down scouting the Senior Bowl. PK absolutely loves him, so throw around whatever term you want, but I'm hoping the kid is there at 28 and we find a new role for Volston other than starting LG. 

Yeah, and he was released with a 'failed physical designation' while he's still rehabbing from the ACL surgery.