The OL Thread

[Nicomo Cosca]

(09-27-2023, 12:02 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Creed might suck here with our staff.

Nonsense. The studs in Dallas didn’t suck under Pollack, and Creed wouldn’t either.

[Bengal Dude]

I fully expect to see Jeffery Simmons lined up over most of next week's game.

[Mer]

Volson has become this board's OL whipping boy and I really don't get it. We've had way worse starting for us in the past. Besides, going up against every teams best DLineman will only make him better. We won! Smell the roses this week.

[Sled21]

(09-26-2023, 11:55 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: Volson had lots of help last night otherwise we lose.
The key is this, Burrow was upright throughout the game and Donald didnt dictate what we could do. PFF rated him zero, really?  I dont see that.

His grade last week was questionable as well. I suspect it's personal. 

[SunsetBengal]

(09-26-2023, 11:22 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: It's all relative. If 94% is below average, it would have to mean that most of the league is above 94% efficiency. 

It's ironic that we're still struggling with a below average OL.  As I watched intermittent parts of the Bears game on Sunday, all I saw was Fields never being able to get set for even a 2-2.5 seconds look at the field before being forced to skedaddle.  It was very reminiscent of watching Joe Burrow struggle behind the Bengals OL in 2020.  Back in 2020 we fans of the Bengals would have been overjoyed to have our current OL at that time, as on Monday night I watched Joe stand there for 4 full seconds on one play, scan the field twice before having to throw the ball away.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

We have upgraded both tackle spots this year. Brown is an upgrade over Jonah, espe ially the hobbled version we saw last year. And a healthy Jonah is an upgrade on the creaky Collins we saw last year, at oeast in terms of pass protection.

However, OT OG, and C should all be spots we look at for next year.

Jonah is a FA after this year and Carman is now the inactive OT on gameday and Smith has no experience. We cut Collins so have no experienced backups for next year. It is a deep OT class and I think that has to be our #1 priority. Carman & Smith are inked thru 2024. Brown thru 2026.

On the interior, Cappa is the best we have, and signed thru 2025, as is Volson. Karras thru 2024. Scharping is a FA after this year. Hill signed thru 2024 and is inactive. Ford has been terrible everywhere he has been. I thin taking a C & moving Karras to guard should be on the table (Van Pern). As is taking a guard outright.

[jj22]

No more money spent on FA lineman or drafting FA lineman until Pollack is fired. Why waste more picks and FA's when he can't develop them....

[PDub80]

I understand the desire to have a stud LG, but Volson is YOUNG and I am 100% on board with 1 more season after this one to see development.

The Middle pressure is GREATLY exacerbated by Burrow's injury. He is 100% in the gun with a mobility rating of 1 or 2 out of 10 compared to being 8-9 out of 10 when it comes to escapeability, rolling out, unscripted, etc.

I think the O Line in pass pro has been good.

The run blocking, however, is disgusting to watch. I think this is perhaps a 2 or 3 part problem:

1: Pollack's run scheme is just not conducive to Joe Mixon's run style.
2: And/or Frank Pollack is out of touch with today's NFL run concepts and just plain sucks.
3: Head coach/playcaller refuses to run the ball with any consistancy, making it an after thought.

Bluntly, Pollack has been in Cincy for several seasons under 2 head coaches and the Bengals have never been a strong rushing team. Not with breaking big runs. Not with beating teams up, not with anything of substance. Tough for me to blame players when SO MANY pieces and parts have been through with this same OL coach and it always looks the same.

Also, do our guards or tackles ever pull or actually get out into space? I feel like they make a meat wall and then the rest is on the RB.

[Frank Booth]

(09-27-2023, 07:03 AM)Mer Wrote: Volson has become this board's OL whipping boy and I really don't get it. We've had way worse starting for us in the past. Besides, going up against every teams best DLineman will only make him better. We won! Smell the roses this week.

Jonah is the whipping boy.

Volson is the 4th round steal. The glass eater. The hall of famer.

[Frank Booth]

(09-27-2023, 10:26 AM)PDub80 Wrote: I understand the desire to have a stud LG, but Volson is YOUNG and I am 100% on board with 1 more season after this one to see development.
.

Yea dude, Jackson Carmen just needs more time

[PDub80]

(09-27-2023, 10:39 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: Yea dude, Jackson Carmen just needs more time

I think comparing the 2 is incredibly disengenuous on your part.

Ted Karras needed a few years under his belt to become a strong player and get consistant playing time. A LOT of O Linemen take 2+ seasons to grow into those spots. Volson wasn't afforded that and has to learn on the job. Volson has size, athleticism, character, smarts. The Bengals have a lot to work with there.

To compare him to Carman, who came into his rookie year out of shape, didn't take the job seriously, had to switch positions, and now can't even dress is moronic and contrarian just for the sake of being so.

We can find a tremendous amount of examples where young O Linemen needed seasoninig before they became consistantly strong players or got starting jobs. While that would have been a great luxury with Volson, the Benglas had to have him start NOW. He's no Clint Boling, sure, but he is very young and his ceiling is high enough for the LG job.

[Joelist]

We're not struggling right now because of the OL; we're struggling because Burrow is immobile back there and his accuracy is off. Again look at the games so far - each game has seen Burrow miss wide open targets he usually hits for touchdowns. By some analyst counts Burrow with his customary accuracy has at least six more TD passes this season and we likely are 2-1 or potentially 3-0 instead of 1-2.

Mixon is running decently; just got to remember that we are running out of shotgun which aids the defense as they can see the play develop and it takes an extra second or two to get to the hole. Putting Burrow under center is not an option with his calf right now.

Once Burrow is more healed the accuracy will return and the scoring will go up.

[bengals1969]

(09-26-2023, 10:29 AM)Joelist Wrote: Except that we're 4th in the league in fewest pressures allowed. And 8th in fewest sacks allowed. 5 sacks in 3 games is not a terrifying number. And this with an immobile QB who just stands there and isn't even dropping back normally. So as usual PFF synthetic stats with no context tell no story.

My eye test for Monday showed me the OL was effective in blunting a Rams DL looking to take Joe out of the game knowing he's the walking wounded.  They guy isn't mobile and was nearly a pure pocket passer, a perfect target for Donald and his mates.  

They did nothing to disrupt Burrow or his passing game.  Burrow missed a lot but many were due to him, not Donald and his mates.  Chase had a big game.  Tee dropped many catchable passes that could have run up the score.  

OL did fine.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-27-2023, 12:02 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: My eye test for Monday showed me the OL was effective in blunting a Rams DL looking to take Joe out of the game knowing he's the walking wounded.  They guy isn't mobile and was nearly a pure pocket passer, a perfect target for Donald and his mates.  

They did nothing to disrupt Burrow or his passing game.  Burrow missed a lot but many were due to him, not Donald and his mates.  Chase had a big game.  Tee dropped many catchable passes that could have run up the score.  

OL did fine.

I wouldn't completely agree with that, they forced plenty of rushed/errant throws, as Burrow was only 26/49 on the night.  Hardly a completion percentage that we're used to seeing out him.

[Joelist]

(09-27-2023, 12:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wouldn't completely agree with that, they forced plenty of rushed/errant throws, as Burrow was only 26/49 on the night.  Hardly a completion percentage that we're used to seeing out him.

Burrow was only 26 of 49 because he was inaccurate. He had plenty of time. Throws were not rushed per se. This has been covered in both other threads and even bu Burrow himself and other analysts - his calf injury and lack of practice have his accuracy off. 

[SunsetBengal]

(09-27-2023, 12:10 PM)Joelist Wrote: Burrow was only 26 of 49 because he was inaccurate. He had plenty of time. Throws were not rushed per se. This has been covered in both other threads and even bu Burrow himself and other analysts - his calf injury and lack of practice have his accuracy off. 

Everyone looking for a singular place to assign blame, when the reality of the situation is that he was sacked twice and pressured 11 times.  The Bengal OL was definitely partially to blame for his poor completion percentage, otherwise they wouldn't have been graded poorly as a unit in pass protection on the night.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-27-2023, 12:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I wouldn't completely agree with that, they forced plenty of rushed/errant throws, as Burrow was only 26/49 on the night.  Hardly a completion percentage that we're used to seeing out him.

Two or three incompletions are squarely on Tee Higgins. There were also a couple of screens that were just flat out bad passes. That makes it 31/49. To your point, I did see at least five or six errant throws that were directly related to pressure. The others would be up for debate as to if it's Joe's inaccuracy or the pressure. Also, you have to consider how many times a normal Joe manipulates the pocket to negate those pressures.

[Joelist]

And the shifting of blame onto the OL when even according to Burrow he is the issue continue. 11 pressures and 2 sacks in 49 drop backs is not a bad percentage. And relying on PFF synthetic garbage shows nothing. Actual analysts and our actual coaches both are fine with the OL performance.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-27-2023, 12:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Nonsense. The studs in Dallas didn’t suck under Pollack, and Creed wouldn’t either.

Creed would have presumably came in as a rookie under him. Current developed Creed would be fine.

[Sled21]

(09-27-2023, 12:10 PM)Joelist Wrote:
Burrow was only 26 of 49 because he was inaccurate. He had plenty of time. Throws were not rushed per se. This has been covered in both other threads and even bu Burrow himself and other analysts - his calf injury and lack of practice have his accuracy off. 

Well ,that and the fact he hit Tee in the hands twice and the ball was not caught.