If Burrow is out Zac will be exposed

[WestieInDelhi]

(11-19-2023, 08:26 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Bengals and possibly the Chiefs/Bills are the only teams in this league that cannot hope to compete if the starting QB goes down.

It’s partially a compliment to Burrow, but it’s more of an indictment of Lac and the offensive coaches.

The Bengals desperately need a new OC/playcaller. But we all knew that.

I don’t disagree on ZT, but if Browning is able to win does that expose Burrow? I really don’t buy the whole Bengals being desperate without their QB. How much credit should Chase/Tee/TB get for the pass attack over the last few years? How much of JB9s success at LSU should go to Chase, Jefferson, Marshall, etc.? Burrow’s good but I think there’s a tendency to give him way too much credit for their success. Mahomes has proved to be elite with virtually no talented receivers, and that showed tonight despite their L. Not sure what Burrow would do in a similar situation.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-19-2023, 10:55 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: It was, but the passing game wasn't much because of it. It was also the 24th ranked offense with a 4th ranked defense.

Passing game was just fine until Henry went down, then we became 1 dimensional because we lost that, "take the top off," threat.

Henry didn't do much that year, but things were much more open when he was on the field.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-21-2023, 01:33 AM)WestieInDelhi Wrote: I don’t disagree on ZT, but if Browning is able to win does that expose Burrow? I really don’t buy the whole Bengals being desperate without their QB. How much credit should Chase/Tee/TB get for the pass attack over the last few years? How much of JB9s success at LSU should go to Chase, Jefferson, Marshall, etc.? Burrow’s good but I think there’s a tendency to give him way too much credit for their success. Mahomes has proved to be elite with virtually no talented receivers, and that showed tonight despite their L. Not sure what Burrow would do in a similar situation.

It should have dampened all the slobbering licking posters on here praising the KC FO for every move they’ve made. Their formula of average receivers failed them last night. KC’s defense may be improved but they aren’t as elite on offense this year. They aren’t protecting as well.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-17-2023, 09:46 AM)740Bengal Wrote: Zac is a mid tier play caller at best, Burrow makes him, everyone in the league or affiliated with football knows this...if you don't you're kidding yourself. Zac will go back to Dalton Zac and we will be lucky to win 1-2 more games if Burrow is in fact out.

And how many remaining games should Zac win with this roster and brutal schedule?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-21-2023, 02:15 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Passing game was just fine until Henry went down, then we became 1 dimensional because we lost that, "take the top off," threat.

Henry didn't do much that year, but things were much more open when he was on the field.

Whatever the reasons, it sucked, lol. Palmer under 3k for the year, and I was at that depressing playoff game against the Jets. Offense was awful that night....and I froze my ass off to watch it. 

[Soonerpeace]

(11-17-2023, 10:40 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Our scheme is Burrow and Chase being superman. Without that, its going to be bad.

Some coaches scheme guys to look better.

And how many of our remaining games of our tough schedule should Zac win?

[Soonerpeace]

(11-17-2023, 11:16 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: Zac and the entire team already have been exposed. Even with a healthy Burrow. The first years with JB, Chase and Higgins they were new and nobody had tape on them. Only took a season for the rest of the league to catch up.

Ha ha! They were #8 in ‘21 in points per play and 8th again in 2022. They played in the AFC Championship game in ‘22. Epic fail my friend.

[RegularGuy22]

(11-21-2023, 10:47 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Ha ha! They were #8 in ‘21 in points per play and 8th again in 2022. They played in the AFC Championship game in ‘22. Epic fail my friend.

No fail, the league has us figured out. Where are they this year? They need a new offensive scheme, play call, play callers, and a RUN GAME.

[NUGDUKWE]

Sadly I do think our coaches will be exposed and even worse I don't think anything will come of it as they will get a free pass with Burrows injury. Does credit for our success go to the whole team? Absolutely and the defense as much as anything else. But Burrow is asked to be superman and be everything for the offense. Looking at some stats a couple things jumped out at me. Burrows rookie year we threw it 414 and rushed it 220 times before he got injured. Some coaches/staffs don't play a rookie QB for all or part of a season. Some change the offense to make things as easy as possible not Taylor and company the asked Burrow to be "The Man" from day one behind a porous line by throwing the ball roughly 2-1. Then this year I looked at the 1st 6 weeks and same story 232 pass 121 rush again roughly 2-1 maybe not shocking if your QB isn't basically immobile with a strained calf. But again in another circumstance where one might expect a coaching staff to something to help they're franchise QB we do nothing except continue as planned.
Then I just saw this week that Callahan said he wants to see more consistent runs of 5,6 and 7 yard runs. This infuriated me. Not because we don't all want to see this. But because 1. Where was this emphasis earlier in the year. 2. Is the reason why we haven't run more and we apparently absolutely refuse to get any other RB involved is because our coaches viewed as not consistent enough?
I don't think this staff knows how to run a balanced offense and even if you want to assume that Burrow is changing runs to passes. Then you still have a staff that one puts Burrow in bad dangerous situations but is also unable to protect him from himself by stressing a more balanced offense and being thorough on injuries that arise.
I don't think we change the offense because I think this staff is incapable. But if by some miracle we have more of an emphasis on the run game and actually get other backs involved. We need to be asking will it last when Burrow is healthy and why didn't we do this earlier.

[PCB Bengal Fan]

(11-19-2023, 07:42 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Well I understand statistically you have to start somewhere but I don't consider a throw of +21 air yards a "Deep throw". But I did always wonder when an announcer would say we were very good at "deep throws " now I know 21 yards or more. Is Dalton a bad QB? No. But he was not good at legitimately deep throws and if he was I think would've put green in that elite category you spoke of. 

My point on Mixon is whether or not 2018 was an anomaly or what happens if you make the run game a point of emphasis with him? I think its impossible to say because the run game has almost never been a point of emphasis with Zac. The 2nd half of 2019 maybe and guess what Mixon was the #2 back in the league. 

95% of all Dalton throws 40+ yards were either waaay short, too long or out of bounds. AJ missed a ton TDs because of those sh!t throws.

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-21-2023, 11:48 AM)PCB Bengal Fan Wrote: 95% of all Dalton throws 40+ yards were either waaay short, too long or out of bounds. AJ missed a ton TDs because of those sh!t throws.

Thank you. Atleast one other person remembers it the way I do. Alot of deep shots in the Dalton era felt like wasted plays that put us behind the sticks. I liked Dalton so I'm not just hating but he obviously had faults to his game with us. 

[740Bengal]

(11-21-2023, 10:38 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: And how many remaining games should Zac win with this roster and brutal schedule?

It's not about winning, it's about looking like at least an average coordinator. 

[Soonerpeace]

(11-21-2023, 12:17 PM)740Bengal Wrote: It's not about winning, it's about looking like at least an average coordinator. 

It’s not how many games you win? I’m totally dumbfounded. You are a complainer non stop so step up big boy. How many games should we win. Don’t be shy.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-21-2023, 11:41 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Sadly I do think our coaches will be exposed and even worse I don't think anything will come of it as they will get a free pass with Burrows injury. Does credit for our success go to the whole team? Absolutely and the defense as much as anything else. But Burrow is asked to be superman and be everything for the offense. Looking at some stats a couple things jumped out at me. Burrows rookie year we threw it 414 and rushed it 220 times before he got injured. Some coaches/staffs don't play a rookie QB for all or part of a season. Some change the offense to make things as easy as possible not Taylor and company the asked Burrow to be "The Man" from day one behind a porous line by throwing the ball roughly 2-1. Then this year I looked at the 1st 6 weeks and same story 232 pass 121 rush again roughly 2-1 maybe not shocking if your QB isn't basically immobile with a strained calf. But again in another circumstance where one might expect a coaching staff to something to help they're franchise QB we do nothing except continue as planned.
Then I just saw this week that Callahan said he wants to see more consistent runs of 5,6 and 7 yard runs. This infuriated me. Not because we don't all want to see this. But because 1. Where was this emphasis earlier in the year. 2. Is the reason why we haven't run more and we apparently absolutely refuse to get any other RB involved is because our coaches viewed as not consistent enough?
I don't think this staff knows how to run a balanced offense and even if you want to assume that Burrow is changing runs to passes. Then you still have a staff that one puts Burrow in bad dangerous situations but is also unable to protect him from himself by stressing a more balanced offense and being thorough on injuries that arise.
I don't think we change the offense because I think this staff is incapable. But if by some miracle we have more of an emphasis on the run game and actually get other backs involved. We need to be asking will it last when Burrow is healthy and why didn't we do this earlier.

So how many of our remaining games should we win going forward?

[Soonerpeace]

(11-19-2023, 11:43 AM)Sled21 Wrote: So, you mean he's on the Bill Belicheat plan

And Jimmy Johnson and a litany of other great coaches.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-17-2023, 12:19 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: I never liked Zac as a coach, nothing personal, I just think he's over-hyped. I think Anarumo is 10x better. Lou is who gets the job done and reciprocates the success to Zac, that's why Zac sticks to him like bubble gum through out his career. The only thing I do like better about Zac is he had more cojones than Marvin in taking more calculated risks than punting or kneeing the ball.

And how many of our remaining games should we win?

[Soonerpeace]

(11-17-2023, 11:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: HC skills far exceed being a capable coordinator.

Remember that expose a few years ago about the Bengals issues?

How many of our last 7 games should we win?

[NUGDUKWE]

(11-21-2023, 01:03 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: So how many of our remaining games should we win going forward?

I saw you asked this earlier and went back to the thread and saw you had posted that as well. Definitely intrigued by the question as how many games do we need/should win to be happy with this coaching staff?

To me I would say 3 wins. Wanted to say 3 or 4 but with a defense that has some young players making mistakes and and offense without Burrow. If we get 3 wins ( not that I necessarily want them ) I think that would be impressive. 
But again as I said before if we get 3+ wins while making significant changes I hope we incorporate those changes going forward. Let them be a positive for Burrow and not just go back because we don't need to do those things with Burrow.

[*ochocincos*]

It's known that Taylor/Callahan aren't of the caliber of McVay, Shanahan, or McDaniel.
It's heavily dependent on good QB play.

Bengals also have a bad blocking/offensive scheme that isn't going to magically be able to be turned into a Top 10 rushing attack now that Burrow is out.
Bengals will have a middle-of-the-pack rush attack at best, bottom-tier occasionally.
The passing game will decline, there's no way around it.

It will ultimately be up to the defense (specifically run defense) to get back to their form of previous years if this team is going to stay in and win games the rest of this season.

....Or maybe Browning is that secret sauce we just had no idea about, and he'll light the league on fire!

[Soonerpeace]

(11-21-2023, 01:54 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I saw you asked this earlier and went back to the thread and saw you had posted that as well. Definitely intrigued by the question as how many games do we need/should win to be happy with this coaching staff?

To me I would say 3 wins. Wanted to say 3 or 4 but with a defense that has some young players making mistakes and and offense without Burrow. If we get 3 wins ( not that I necessarily want them ) I think that would be impressive. 
But again as I said before if we get 3+ wins while making significant changes I hope we incorporate those changes going forward. Let them be a positive for Burrow and not just go back because we don't need to do those things with Burrow.

This was my question I posted: How many games should we win with a backup QB that’s got zero experience in the NFL? Based on what you’ve seen out of the defense and offense so far this season? We have 7 games left.

We scored 24 on Buffalo and 31 on SF. We scored 20 points on the Ravens with Joe missing the second half and that’s more than they’ve been giving up. Those three teams are 1,3,4 in defense against scoring and we exceeded their average. Too funny.