The Slot is Dead

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 07:09 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: LOL. It does matter. Just go look at success rate by round. The later in the draft, the lower chance it materializes.

Other 6th round QBs. This list is not exhaustive.

Josh Booty, Josh Heupel, J.T. O’Sullivan, Steve Bellisari, Drew Henson, Brooks Bollinger, Kliff Kingsbury, Josh Harris, Jim Sorgi, Jeff Smoker, Reggie McNeal, Bruce Gradkowski, Jordan Palmer, Colt Brennan, Andre Woodson, Tom Brandstater, Mike Teel, Keith Null, Curtis Painter, Rusty Smith, Dan LeFevour, Tony Pike, Ryan Lindley, Zach Mettenberger, David Fales, Keith Wenning, Tajh Boyd, Garrett Gilbert, Nate Sudfeld, Jake Rudock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brad Kaaya, Luke Falk, Tanner Lee.

1st round - about 50% of players drafted in the 1st round developed into solid NFL starters.

2nd round - about 33% of players drafted in the 2nd round developed into solid NFL starter. From here, it dropped by 50% per round.

3rd round - about 16%.

4th round - about 8%.

5th round - about 4-5%.

6th round - about 2%.

7th round - about 1-2%.

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 07:13 PM)sandwedge Wrote: How about Mr. Irrelevant, Brock Purdy

It’s the anomaly. As is Puka. These things happen. Anyway, iosovas is not purdy. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. If he turns into a marques Valdez scandling, that will be a home run. He is not a difference maker, maybe he can become a solid role player/contributor.

[Frank Booth]

(10-21-2024, 07:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They really don’t have anyone else to pay besides the 2 WR’s.

the thing is, they werent gonna pay Tee. But they fumbled trying to replace him AND Boyd, so now they have to shell out money for 2 high end receivers 

[coachmcneil71]

(10-21-2024, 07:05 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Or better yet, just sign Tee.

But yeah, if they don’t there’s no choice but to.

One of the kids that you are bashing is tied with Tee for 2nd place in receiving tuds on the team.

Another kid that some are poo-pooing scored one of the teams 3 TDs this past week on a 100 yard KO Return. A game that was won by a score of 21-14. Whoa! A seven point win! What a coincidence! Let's bash that kid. Those second year players must both be terrible. 

Smh...Coming off of two wins in a row. Yeah, I'm sure our players appreciate the show of support by some in this fanbase. 

[Frank Booth]

(10-21-2024, 07:30 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: One of the kids that you are bashing is tied with Tee for 2nd place in receiving tuds on the team.

Another kid that some are poo-pooing scored one of the teams 3 TDs this past week on a 100 yard KO Return. A game that was won by a score of 21-14. Whoa! A seven point win! What a coincidence! Let's bash that kid. Those second year players must both be terrible. 

Smh...Coming off of two wins in a row. Yeah, I'm sure our players appreciate the show of support by some in this fanbase. 

dude, congrats to Yoshi for being better than Irwin. Congrats to Charlie Jones for returning a kick

this team needs a #3 option, and perhaps a Tee replacement. Neither of them are good enough to fill those roles. Jones has utterly failed as a WR. Yoshi is a 4th option redzone specialist. 

[Bengalbug]

(10-21-2024, 07:30 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: One of the kids that you are bashing is tied with Tee for 2nd place in receiving tuds on the team.

Another kid that some are poo-pooing scored one of the teams 3 TDs this past week on a 100 yard KO Return. A game that was won by a score of 21-14. Whoa! A seven point win! What a coincidence! Let's bash that kid. Those second year players must both be terrible. 

Smh...Coming off of two wins in a row. Yeah, I'm sure our players appreciate the show of support by some in this fanbase. 

lol, you are really over reacting. It’s obvious that unless Burton makes his way into the field, the room behind Chase and tee is very limited.

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(10-21-2024, 07:44 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: lol, you are really over reacting.  It’s obvious that unless Burton makes his way into the field, the room behind Chase and tee is very limited.

Iosivas and Burton are both wide guys more than slots. And for all we want to see Chase play more in the slot, and he has some this year, he's been almost exclusively a wide guy his first 3 years. 

Jones was primarily a wide guy in college as well. 

This is year 2 for Yoshi & Jones, I would not flgive up on them yet. Tee is a top 15 WR when healthy. Thinking Yoshi or Jones or Burton could replace that is cray-cray. Especially this early. 

The guy they need no replace is Boyd, not Higgins. We need a jittetbug type guy to be the slot,,and we don't have one. But a lot of times pure slot guys drop in the draft. 

Jones has 2 return TDs and was hurt a big chunk of last year. Yoshi had 4 TDs last year and 3 this year so far. The list of WRs drafted last year with more than 7 TDs is probably pretty darn short.

This year: 

Boyd: 18 rec for 170 yards and 0 TDs. 24 tgts. 
Yoshi: 14 rec for 189 yards and 3 TDs  24 tgts. 

The game is probably just starting to slow down for each guy. They are all ahead of Irwin now. Who is headed for PS next year, where he belongs. 

Next year we need to:

1) Restructure Burrow's deal & save $20 mil on the cap. 
2) Extend Chase (there goes that $20 mil). 
3) Tag Tee or do an extension. 
4) Extend Hendrickson (or prepare to start tagging him after his deal is up. 

We can make decisions on draft & FA & bringing people back after that. 

Right now: DE, CB, and pass rushing DT would be my biggest areas of need. Followed by S, IOL, and WR3 (slot). Though the rest of the season may change that. 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-21-2024, 07:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yep, give All some deep routes please...


I am all for paying Tee now, he has stayed healthy lately and has been taking hits and making big catch after big catch.

I was against extending him in the Offseason, he has made me a believer. Sign them both.

The reason I’ve come around on signing both WR’s is I just don’t believe they’ll use that money elsewhere. Losing Bates was bad enough, let’s not compound that by losing another very good homegrown young player.

(10-21-2024, 07:30 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: One of the kids that you are bashing is tied with Tee for 2nd place in receiving tuds on the team.

Another kid that some are poo-pooing scored one of the teams 3 TDs this past week on a 100 yard KO Return. A game that was won by a score of 21-14. Whoa! A seven point win! What a coincidence! Let's bash that kid. Those second year players must both be terrible. 

Smh...Coming off of two wins in a row. Yeah, I'm sure our players appreciate the show of support by some in this fanbase. 

I literally said the red zone TD’s are nice. It was nice when John Ross had a season where he scored 7 TD’s, too. The rest is history.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-21-2024, 11:55 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Happy Fairways and Greens!

What are those?

[*michaelsean*]

As dumb as I think the coaches are sometimes, I believe there is a legitimate reason Burton isn’t seeing the field. Joe may not trust him to be where he’s supposed to be. All the talent in the world can’t make up for that.

[coachmcneil71]

(10-21-2024, 07:44 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: lol, you are really over reacting.  It’s obvious that unless Burton makes his way into the field, the room behind Chase and tee is very limited.

It's fairly obvious that WR will be high on the draft list in the upcoming draft. I don't think that was ever debatable. Wts, there's not currently a major need to waste money or assets this season unless one of the two top options go down for the season. If all of the kids suck at the end of this year then there is reason for concern. Until then how about we try and let them grow.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-21-2024, 08:36 PM)michaelsean Wrote: As dumb as I think the coaches are sometimes, I believe there is a legitimate reason Burton isn’t seeing the field. Joe may not trust him to be where he’s supposed to be. All the talent in the world can’t make up for that.

I don’t buy that. At the very least you could give him 5-10 snaps a game and send him on go balls.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-21-2024, 08:43 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t buy that. At the very least you could give him 5-10 snaps a game and send him on go balls.

Oh not necessarily that reason, but I have to believe there is a legitimate reason. They aren’t THAT stupid.

[pulses]

(10-21-2024, 07:09 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: LOL.  It does matter.  Just go look at success rate by round.  The later in the draft, the lower chance it materializes.

Other 6th round QBs. This list is not exhaustive.

Josh Booty, Josh Heupel, J.T. O’Sullivan, Steve Bellisari, Drew Henson, Brooks Bollinger, Kliff Kingsbury, Josh Harris, Jim Sorgi, Jeff Smoker, Reggie McNeal, Bruce Gradkowski, Jordan Palmer, Colt Brennan, Andre Woodson, Tom Brandstater, Mike Teel, Keith Null, Curtis Painter, Rusty Smith, Dan LeFevour, Tony Pike, Ryan Lindley, Zach Mettenberger, David Fales, Keith Wenning, Tajh Boyd, Garrett Gilbert, Nate Sudfeld, Jake Rudock, Brandon Allen, Jeff Driskel, Brad Kaaya, Luke Falk, Tanner Lee.

He was only one example......go look and see how many HOFer's were either drafted late or not at all.....alot more than you might think....hence it doesn't matter where you get drafted.

[XsandOs]

Boyd was not a slot in Pitt, but physically he fit the mold of an NFL slot, including his 4.58 speed. He also had a good chunk of yards rushing his last year. So ideal physicals for a slot NFL receiver.

As said earlier, Burton and Yoshi also lined up outside in college, different body types, but both are fast.

I recall comments about how Bengals need more speed at the slot position. So here we are with Burton.

Can he become the next St. Brown or Kupp? It depends on Bengals commitment to the position. With Chase and Tee as primaries....

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(10-21-2024, 11:27 PM)pulses Wrote: He was only one example......go look and see how many HOFer's were either drafted late or not at all.....alot more than you might think....hence it doesn't matter where you get drafted.

Oof, you sure that's the terrible take hill you want to die on?
- - - - - -

https://www.profootballhof.com/hall-of-famers/hall-of-famers-by-draft-round/

1st round draft pick HoFers in NFL history: 137
6th round draft pick HoFers in NFL history: 4

4th-21st round draft picks + Special Picks + UDFAs COMBINED: 84

That's 18 rounds of drafting, plus special picks, plus the overwhelming number of UDFAs that get churned through every year. Combine ALL of them and it's still 53 shy of just the 1st round on it's own.

JUST the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd overall (not round, but overall) picks in NFL history combine for 40 HoFers, which is more than any single other category besides 1st rounders as a whole. Not surprisingly... the 2nd round has the 2nd most HoFers, and the 3rd round has the 3rd most HoFers.

So between 1936 (when the drafts started) and 2007 (the latest anyone has been drafted and entered the HoF so far) there have been 216 1st-3rd overall picks, and 40 of them became HoFers. That's an overwhelming 18.5% of top-3 picks in the 1st round becoming HoFers.

- - - - - - - - - -

There's a reason why no team out there is trading their 1st and 2nd round picks for 5 6ths and 5 7ths. It DOES matter where you were drafted. There's always going to occasionally be guys found in the later rounds who are gems, but nowhere near the rate and reliability of high draft picks.

[Sled21]

(10-21-2024, 06:47 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He’s had all the opportunities in the world. Especially the first couple weeks when Tee was out. The red zone TD’s were nice, but a WR2/3 need to bring more between the 20’s.

Marvin always said, for the majority of wide receivers coming into the league, it takes them 3 years to get up to speed and play at full potential. Everyone is not a Chase or Jefferson or Green

[Sled21]

(10-21-2024, 07:09 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: They really don’t have anyone else to pay besides the 2 WR’s.

Well there's Hendrickson and Hill....

[Sled21]

(10-21-2024, 09:12 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Oh not necessarily that reason, but I have to believe there is a legitimate reason. They aren’t THAT stupid.

There is no longer "Marvin's doghouse" around here. Burton is not seeing the field because he hasn't learned the playbook. Putting him in and just sending him on go routes will reinforce his lack of work ethic. They are simply playing the long game with him. If he wants to see the field, he needs to put in the time.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(10-22-2024, 07:54 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Well there's Hendrickson and Hill....

Trey still has another year left on his deal. He will also be 32 when he becomes a UFA. Not typically the Bengals M.O.

Hill is a good player, but would also be on the wrong side of 30 going into a new deal.

Tee is a 25 year old top 4 player on the team.