Our offensive scheme

[Timanky12]

On Bengal pass routes, receivers are usually stationary or horizontal and have no chance to turn up the field. They have to have vertical pass routes or quick slants to give them a chance to get a 1st down. We made it to easy for Patriots defense to keep play in front of them and stop YAC

[lone bengal]

(09-09-2024, 10:24 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The big issue with shotgun vs under center is they telegraph their plays. Out of shotgun, they usually pass. Under center, they usually run.

We don't have the horses at WR or RB to get open when the defense knows what's coming.

Simply fix would be to mix up runs and pass under center but that’s to creative lol. Must teams don’t even have 1 superstar WR Chase getting most attention should creative opportunities for others but not in this offense.

[jj22]

(09-09-2024, 11:12 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Simply fix would be to mix up runs and pass under center but that’s to creative lol. 

Creativity is limited by ability. Creativity is there. We saw it with Browning...

[Timanky12]

(09-09-2024, 10:20 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Cover 2 isn't some new fangled thing. It's a very, very basic thing.

IF a team going into Cover 2 just totally messes up the offense, then something is very wrong.

If cover 2 is so great, why don’t we implore that?  

[reuben.ahmed]

(09-09-2024, 10:42 AM)Whatever Wrote: Yesterday I don't think it was scheme that killed us.  It was the game plan and not riding the hot hands.

Moss had 9 carries for 44 yards with a 4.9 ypc average.  He was effective running the ball.  They just didn't stick with him.  Of course, Brown had 3 carries for 11 yards, 3.7 ypc, so based on that, the run game issue isn't a scheme issue.  The issues are talent and and just not riding the hot hand.

In the pass game, Chase caught all 6 of his targets for 62 yards.  Yoshi also had 6 Targets, but only 3 catches for 26 yards.  There's zero reason for Yoshi to get getting as many targets as Chase.  None.  But, once again, we don't ride the hot hand.  It almost seemed like they were trying to send a message to Chase that "Oh, we can without you", except it blew up in their face.  And nobody else was really effective with their targets.  Hudson and Gesicki had 2 and 3 catches on 3 and 4 targets, respectively, but only 18 yards a piece.  Irwin had 1 catch for 6 yards in 2 targets.  Jones 1 for 1 for 5.  Moss and Brown had 2/4/17 and 3/3/12, respectively.

Reality is, this pee wee "everyone gets to touch the ball so their parents don't get mad" philosophy needs to go.  You can do it when you're stacked at the skill positions.  We aren't.  If one of the lesser guys is tearing it up, sure, feed him, but we need to be focused on getting our studs touches.

I will give zack moss what I gave mixon. Moss had a 16 yard carry, so he was 8 for 28 yards otherwise = 3.5ypc. We are still having problems running the ball. 

But yeah you put your best players in the positions to win the game, that's Burrow/Chase/Mcpherson and our new punter. I've been thinking Tee would have made little difference in the outcome of that game, but if we take a step back - we'd be saying a potential #1 WR on most other teams is not able to help a team score more than 10 points? Something seriously sounds off about that. I guess Tee would have caught Gesecki's TD and not fumbled Hudson's TD, though.

This reminds me that Gesecki did the griddy after his obvious drop, wtf, he knew he dropped it. Like literally that doesn't make it seem like he's very smart lol. Bad selling job.

That one drive looked good, why, we got Ja'marr open down the middle once. That messed the defense up a bit. It's weird we put Joe in shotgun so much and don't give him the ability to pass deep. I've got no excuse for "the patriots defense is good". Dallas wrecked the Browns. 

[Bengalfan4life27c]

with Higgins hurt outside of Chase no other active WR can win a one on one matchup so you double/triple chase go 1 on 1 with everyone else and stack the box because nobody is going to give Bengals a big play outside of Chase

[KillerGoose]

I'm waiting for the All-22 to show up so I can watch it a little more in-depth. However, someone on Twitter has access to it. I have a little bit of confirmation bias here, but it leads me to pointing more to Burrow. Take a look at this...

First down on this drive was just as bad! How are you not looking to Chase against single high here. It's an out against bail technique. What happened on this drive? You need better QB play. pic.twitter.com/3P5eQKTvWI

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

 

This is a routine throw for Burrow. Instead, he doesn't even read Chase. I am not sure what this is. Is this play drawn up to not include Chase in his progressions against single high? I have a hard time believing that because that leaves a 1-on-1 with Chase. Did he not see the safety rotate down? I don't get it, but Chase is open. He has to get him that ball. 

This was the most concerning play of the day. 3rd down with the game on the line and you have a shot play against single high. Burrow doesn't even give it a chance. Panics and lowers his eyes at a non existent rush. OL was fine this was the perfect play call.

? pic.twitter.com/oavcRBcwnS

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

 

I am not a huge fan of the playcall here, being third down and running double double-moves, but you have a shot here to Iosivas. He has inside leverage but with the safety shaded towards Chase, Burrow has a lot of field to throw this ball to. This is a play that he normally takes a shot on, but...he just doesn't. He panics, drops his eyes and takes a checkdown. In fact, he does the same thing in the video above. He did it all day, it felt like. He looked extremely uncomfortable all game.

I don't know what it is and I don't have a strong opinion on "scheme" or anything just yet because I haven't really seen what they are doing. What I do have an opinion on is that Burrow looked very shaky yesterday. He panicked quickly, resorted to his checkdown quickly and looked to bail even when there wasn't pressure. He had good protection yesterday. The line did their job in pass pro. 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-09-2024, 11:14 AM)Timanky12 Wrote: If cover 2 is so great, why don’t we implore that?  

We likely do play Cover 2. I think every team probably does. It's just how much.

Cover 2 just takes deep throws away or makes them harder. It opens up other areas of the field for teams to attack.

[THE PISTONS]

(09-09-2024, 12:10 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: with Higgins hurt outside of Chase no other active WR can win a one on one matchup so you double/triple chase go 1 on 1 with everyone else and stack the box because nobody is going to give Bengals a big play outside of Chase

That's it in a nutshell. And Boyd gone too. Boyd wasn't a burner, but he was a legit NFL receiver.

I'm not sure any of the receivers on our roster outside of Chase and Higgins are guys that would be more than a 5th WR or special teamer on a good team.

[jj22]

Teams have worked with 1 elite wideout before....... And have been successful as has that 1 wideout.

Burrow shouldn't have to have 3 number 1's.... 

[THE PISTONS]

(09-09-2024, 12:18 PM)jj22 Wrote: Teams have worked with 1 elite wideout before....... And have been successful as has that 1 wideout.

Burrow shouldn't have to have 3 number 1's.... 

That's kind of a concern too. But those other teams are generally in a system that gets guys open.

Our system is pass out of shotgun. Run under center. Very predictable. Don't throw more than 10 yards.

[WhoDeyK]

(09-09-2024, 12:11 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm waiting for the All-22 to show up so I can watch it a little more in-depth. However, someone on Twitter has access to it. I have a little bit of confirmation bias here, but it leads me to pointing more to Burrow. Take a look at this...

First down on this drive was just as bad! How are you not looking to Chase against single high here. It's an out against bail technique. What happened on this drive? You need better QB play. pic.twitter.com/3P5eQKTvWI

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

 

This is a routine throw for Burrow. Instead, he doesn't even read Chase. I am not sure what this is. Is this play drawn up to not include Chase in his progressions against single high? I have a hard time believing that because that leaves a 1-on-1 with Chase. Did he not see the safety rotate down? I don't get it, but Chase is open. He has to get him that ball. 

This was the most concerning play of the day. 3rd down with the game on the line and you have a shot play against single high. Burrow doesn't even give it a chance. Panics and lowers his eyes at a non existent rush. OL was fine this was the perfect play call.

? pic.twitter.com/oavcRBcwnS

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

 

I am not a huge fan of the playcall here, being third down and running double double-moves, but you have a shot here to Iosivas. He has inside leverage but with the safety shaded towards Chase, Burrow has a lot of field to throw this ball to. This is a play that he normally takes a shot on, but...he just doesn't. He panics, drops his eyes and takes a checkdown. In fact, he does the same thing in the video above. He did it all day, it felt like. He looked extremely uncomfortable all game.

I don't know what it is and I don't have a strong opinion on "scheme" or anything just yet because I haven't really seen what they are doing. What I do have an opinion on is that Burrow looked very shaky yesterday. He panicked quickly, resorted to his checkdown quickly and looked to bail even when there wasn't pressure. He had good protection yesterday. The line did their job in pass pro. 

Thanks for sharing. That second video is a perfect summary of the game. Burrow did that time and time again yesterday where he tucked the ball if the first read wasn’t there or if the play took too long to develop regardless of whether there was actually pressure. He has to get out of his own head if we have any chance of success this season.

[Whatever]

(09-09-2024, 12:03 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: I will give zack moss what I gave mixon. Moss had a 16 yard carry, so he was 8 for 28 yards otherwise = 3.5ypc. We are still having problems running the ball. 

But yeah you put your best players in the positions to win the game, that's Burrow/Chase/Mcpherson and our new punter. I've been thinking Tee would have made little difference in the outcome of that game, but if we take a step back - we'd be saying a potential #1 WR on most other teams is not able to help a team score more than 10 points? Something seriously sounds off about that. I guess Tee would have caught Gesecki's TD and not fumbled Hudson's TD, though.

This reminds me that Gesecki did the griddy after his obvious drop, wtf, he knew he dropped it. Like literally that doesn't make it seem like he's very smart lol. Bad selling job.

That one drive looked good, why, we got Ja'marr open down the middle once. That messed the defense up a bit. It's weird we put Joe in shotgun so much and don't give him the ability to pass deep. I've got no excuse for "the patriots defense is good". Dallas wrecked the Browns. 

Here are Moss's carries in context...

1st and 10 at Cin 35= 4 yard run

1st and 10 at Cin 11=1 yard run

2nd and 9 at Cin 12=3 yard run

3rd and 1 at NE 40=2 yard run

2nd and 2 at Cin 39=1 yard run

1st and 10 at Cin 30=7 yard run

2nd and 3 at Cin 37=16 yard run

2nd and 4 at NE 10=5 yard run

1st and Goal at NE 5=5 yard run for TD

Generally speaking, a 3 yard run isn't great, but enough to keep the offense on schedule.  He had 3 runs that went for 1-2 yards, but two of them were in short yardage situations against stacked boxes, which he was 1 for 2 on converting.  

[*jason*]

(09-09-2024, 11:12 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Simply fix would be to mix up runs and pass under center but that’s to creative lol. Must teams don’t even have 1 superstar WR Chase getting most attention should creative opportunities for others but not in this offense.

The other guys not named Higgins suck.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-09-2024, 12:11 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm waiting for the All-22 to show up so I can watch it a little more in-depth. However, someone on Twitter has access to it. I have a little bit of confirmation bias here, but it leads me to pointing more to Burrow. Take a look at this...

First down on this drive was just as bad! How are you not looking to Chase against single high here. It's an out against bail technique. What happened on this drive? You need better QB play. pic.twitter.com/3P5eQKTvWI

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

 

This is a routine throw for Burrow. Instead, he doesn't even read Chase. I am not sure what this is. Is this play drawn up to not include Chase in his progressions against single high? I have a hard time believing that because that leaves a 1-on-1 with Chase. Did he not see the safety rotate down? I don't get it, but Chase is open. He has to get him that ball. 

This was the most concerning play of the day. 3rd down with the game on the line and you have a shot play against single high. Burrow doesn't even give it a chance. Panics and lowers his eyes at a non existent rush. OL was fine this was the perfect play call.

? pic.twitter.com/oavcRBcwnS

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

 

I am not a huge fan of the playcall here, being third down and running double double-moves, but you have a shot here to Iosivas. He has inside leverage but with the safety shaded towards Chase, Burrow has a lot of field to throw this ball to. This is a play that he normally takes a shot on, but...he just doesn't. He panics, drops his eyes and takes a checkdown. In fact, he does the same thing in the video above. He did it all day, it felt like. He looked extremely uncomfortable all game.

I don't know what it is and I don't have a strong opinion on "scheme" or anything just yet because I haven't really seen what they are doing. What I do have an opinion on is that Burrow looked very shaky yesterday. He panicked quickly, resorted to his checkdown quickly and looked to bail even when there wasn't pressure. He had good protection yesterday. The line did their job in pass pro. 

Not sure if anyone noticed, but to add to the first video in your post, look at Chase's reaction when they play it through.  At the 1:01 mark.  He knew he was open and was mad.  

I'm telling you guys, something is wrong with Burrow.  He is not the same old Burrow.  Maybe he is scared every play is going to be his last or every pass may separate his tendon.  I don't know.  I just know I don't see any fire in this team or Burrow like the "good ol' days".

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-09-2024, 12:11 PM)KillerGoose Wrote:

This was the most concerning play of the day. 3rd down with the game on the line and you have a shot play against single high. Burrow doesn't even give it a chance. Panics and lowers his eyes at a non existent rush. OL was fine this was the perfect play call.

? pic.twitter.com/oavcRBcwnS

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

 

What I do have an opinion on is that Burrow looked very shaky yesterday. He panicked quickly, resorted to his checkdown quickly and looked to bail even when there wasn't pressure.

That's legitimately horrible to see that replay. That looks like a QB who is broken and I really really don't want that to be the case. Clean pocket, no pressure, but just 100% squirrely and panicking to quickly dump off a pass for a short gain while jumping and off balance against single high coverage.

[Housh]

(09-09-2024, 12:11 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm waiting for the All-22 to show up so I can watch it a little more in-depth. However, someone on Twitter has access to it. I have a little bit of confirmation bias here, but it leads me to pointing more to Burrow. Take a look at this...

First down on this drive was just as bad! How are you not looking to Chase against single high here. It's an out against bail technique. What happened on this drive? You need better QB play. pic.twitter.com/3P5eQKTvWI

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

 

This is a routine throw for Burrow. Instead, he doesn't even read Chase. I am not sure what this is. Is this play drawn up to not include Chase in his progressions against single high? I have a hard time believing that because that leaves a 1-on-1 with Chase. Did he not see the safety rotate down? I don't get it, but Chase is open. He has to get him that ball. 

This was the most concerning play of the day. 3rd down with the game on the line and you have a shot play against single high. Burrow doesn't even give it a chance. Panics and lowers his eyes at a non existent rush. OL was fine this was the perfect play call.

? pic.twitter.com/oavcRBcwnS

— mike (@bengals_sans) September 9, 2024

 

I am not a huge fan of the playcall here, being third down and running double double-moves, but you have a shot here to Iosivas. He has inside leverage but with the safety shaded towards Chase, Burrow has a lot of field to throw this ball to. This is a play that he normally takes a shot on, but...he just doesn't. He panics, drops his eyes and takes a checkdown. In fact, he does the same thing in the video above. He did it all day, it felt like. He looked extremely uncomfortable all game.

I don't know what it is and I don't have a strong opinion on "scheme" or anything just yet because I haven't really seen what they are doing. What I do have an opinion on is that Burrow looked very shaky yesterday. He panicked quickly, resorted to his checkdown quickly and looked to bail even when there wasn't pressure. He had good protection yesterday. The line did their job in pass pro. 

I’d begun floating around the Burrow was still hurt idea after seeing posts like this


Throw chart had no passes going deep, routes were all short

This is the offense we ran when Joe was hurt last year

[Whatever]

(09-09-2024, 01:40 PM)Housh Wrote: I’d begun floating around the Burrow was still hurt idea after seeing posts like this


Throw chart had no passes going deep, routes were all short

This is the offense we ran when Joe was hurt last year

Thing is, historically, Joe has always struggled the first couple games out of the gate.  Then he gets it together.  It's like he needs a couple games for things to slow down for him.

[740Bengal]

Taylor is an average offensive mind at the absolute best. The SB run may end of being a BAD thing, because Mike will keep him Burrow's entire career.

[NotBigzo]

(09-09-2024, 01:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

That's legitimately horrible to see that replay. That looks like a QB who is broken and I really really don't want that to be the case. Clean pocket, no pressure, but just 100% squirrely and panicking to quickly dump off a pass for a short gain while jumping and off balance against single high coverage.

Says his wrist was fine. 

No calf injuries. 

Full Training camp. 

Starting to think we may have actually crashed the Lambo. Bengals tried after his first injury to right the ship. Can't say they didn't. But they were too damn late.