Pollack, Carman, Humphrey, OUCH.

[samhain]

No idea how valid this rumor is, but James Rapien, I believe casually dropped this tidbit yesterday: Pollack wanted the team to draft Creed Humphrey over Carman. It was on the Locked on Bengals podcast during a discussion of the firings yesterday.

Also, don't recall of it was on that show or on Malik Wright's pod yesterday, but apparently Zac and Pollack never saw eye to eye, particularly with the run game coordination. Zac was more or less forced to fire his homeboy in Turner, and Pollack was in the position of being the guy that ownership was familiar with. We know how the fam loves familiarity.

Why does this matter? As to the Carman/Humphrey alleged overruling, you have wonder who made the call to take Carman. Was it Zac? Seems unlikely that it was. Seems generally unlikely that it was a decision made by an actual current football person. I'd say Piano Man blessing and a local background pulled on Mikey's heartstrings. He loves local guys. Alexander is gone, but far from forgotten in the organization.

The Carman impact was brutal. Imagine having arguably the best center in the league to pair with the top QB in this offense. We got a guy that started 6 games and stayed in the doghouse.

Both tidbits should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt (If you really have no understanding of how the family historically operates). IMO these occurrences should temper expectations in the current hiring processes. As Big Willie once said, these guys want to hire their friends first and foremost. Dudes they know and have worked with. It's also unlikely that Zac wants an in-house threat to his job as a DC. When they don't get to hire their guys, things can get dicey. Then again, Willie also vouched for Carman......

Also, it doesn't matter what a new DC or OL coach may have as a personal vision if there's always a possibility of them being overruled by non football people up in the suites.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Breaking News: Man Gets Fired For Incompetence, Tells Anyone Who Will Listen He Was Actually Super Competent And THEY Were Holding Him Back

[samhain]

(01-07-2025, 10:59 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Breaking News: Man Gets Fired For Incompetence, Tells Anyone Who Will Listen He Was Actually Super Competent And THEY Were Holding Him Back

FWIW, it didn't seem like it was revelation.  More something that had been understood for awhile.  

They weren't glazing him.  They credited the selection of Volson to him for crap's sake.

[Nicomo Cosca]

The fact that Pollack wanted Humphrey has been well known for quite a while. It’s been discussed on this very board. Mims also just stated that Pollack was the one who “stood on the table” to draft him. Carman was 100% on Mike Brown.

As for Pollack and Zac not seeing eye to eye that was obvious. They weren’t at all a good fit. Frank comes from under center/wide zone. It was always trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with these two. The next guy needs to better suited to what Zac and Joe want to do.

[Bengalion]

Paul Alexander said Carmen was a first round talent...

[Frank Booth]

Yea no crap. Coaches get fired for what is ultimately Mike and Duke’s fault

[samhain]

(01-07-2025, 11:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The fact that Pollack wanted Humphrey has been well known for quite a while. It’s been discussed on this very board. Mims also just stated that Pollack was the one who “stood on the table” to draft him. Carman was 100% on Mike Brown.

As for Pollack and Zac not seeing eye to eye that was obvious. They weren’t at all a good fit. Frank comes from under center/wide zone. It was always trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with these two. The next guy needs to better suited to what Zac and Joe want to do.

Yeah your second paragraph was mentioned as well.  Much of the lack of run game is allegedly (use that word a lot) attributed to Pollack not being able to conform to the Zac/Joe offense.  

[jj22]

This was old news. Zac’s big mistake was letting BC get to Cleveland. Surely he would have wanted to coach with his son and disciple. Who stopped that from happening is the question? The FO? Zac had already shown he didn’t want Pollack when he passed him over for Turner.

MB just wanted him back to use all the practice equipment and gadgets they bought for him the first go round with the team. 

[Soonerpeace]

Duke or somebody felt like center was less a need as we had one. Lots of teams passed on Creed mostly because he was a center. BTW I know the Humphrey family. Good folks.

[Essex Johnson]

(01-07-2025, 10:56 PM)samhain Wrote: No idea how valid this rumor is, but James Rapien, I believe casually dropped this tidbit yesterday: Pollack wanted the team to draft Creed Humphrey over Carman.  It was on the Locked on Bengals podcast during a discussion of the firings yesterday.

Also, don't recall of it was on that show or on Malik Wright's pod yesterday, but apparently Zac and Pollack never saw eye to eye, particularly with the run game coordination.  Zac was more or less forced to fire his homeboy in Turner, and Pollack was in the position of being the guy that ownership was familiar with.  We know how the fam loves familiarity.  

Why does this matter?  As to the Carman/Humphrey alleged overruling, you have wonder who made the call to take Carman.  Was it Zac?  Seems unlikely that it was.  Seems generally unlikely that it was a decision made by an actual current football person.  I'd say Piano Man blessing and a local background pulled on Mikey's heartstrings.  He loves local guys.  Alexander is gone, but far from forgotten in the organization.

The Carman impact was brutal.  Imagine having arguably the best center in the league to pair with the top QB in this offense.  We got a guy that started 6 games and stayed in the doghouse.  

Both tidbits should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt (If you really have no understanding of how the family historically operates).  IMO these occurrences should temper expectations in the current hiring processes.  As Big Willie once said, these guys want to hire their friends first and foremost.  Dudes they know and have worked with.  It's also unlikely that Zac wants an in-house threat to his job as a DC.  When they don't get to hire their guys, things can get dicey.  Then again, Willie also vouched for Carman......

Also, it doesn't matter what a new DC or OL coach may have as a personal vision if there's always a possibility of them being overruled by non football people up in the suites.

You can debate decisions and success but Mike Brown is not a non football petson, he played college and has been involved in nfl football since 1968

[Soonerpeace]

(Yesterday, 12:12 AM)jj22 Wrote: This was old news. Zac’s big mistake was letting BC get to Cleveland. Surely he would have wanted to coach with his son and disciple. Who stopped that from happening is the question? The FO? Zac had already shown he didn’t want Pollack when he passed him over for Turner.

MB just wanted him back to use all the practice equipment and gadgets they bought for him the first go round with the team. 

That was an awkward dynamics Father with son and your former player as your bosses? 

[Soonerpeace]

(Yesterday, 12:46 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You can debate decisions and success but Mike Brown is not a non football petson, he played college and has been involved in nfl football since 1968

And at the office at 6/7 am and at every practice. 

[*pally*]

(Yesterday, 12:12 AM)jj22 Wrote: This was old news. Zac’s big mistake was letting BC get to Cleveland. Surely he would have wanted to coach with his son and disciple. Who stopped that from happening is the question? The FO? Zac had already shown he didn’t want Pollack when he passed him over for Turner.

MB just wanted him back to use all the practice equipment and gadgets they bought for him the first go round with the team. 

Bill Callahan has said more than once that he would only work on the same staff as Brian if Brian was HC. So as long as Brian was our OC, Bill wasn’t coming here. And as he had plenty of other opportunities, he didn’t need the job

[Bengal Dude]

It came out in 2022 that Pollack didn't want Carman and he pushed for Humphrey. He also pounded the table for Trey Smith in the 2021 draft as well. I give credit to Pollack for that one. Carman falls squarely on the FO.

However, the FO listened to Pollack in the 2022 draft and gave him a guy he really wanted, which was Cordell Volson. 

Also, Pollack was clearly a front office hire. It was known that the FO loved him and didn't want him to leave after 2018. We had Jim Turner, who is arguably one of the worst hires ever in team history. Pollack's style doesn't mesh with the offense that we've had to implement for Burrow.

There's a lot of blame on multiple sides with these failures. 

[t3r3e3]

(Yesterday, 12:46 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You can debate decisions and success but Mike Brown is not a non football petson, he played college and has been involved in nfl football since 1968

He might be a “football guy,” but his record over the last 30+ years proves he isn’t a very good one, and he played college in the leather helmet era. Mike’s way has unquestionably proven to be below average, and that’s being charitable. The Bengals have had a total of 10 winning seasons under 34 years of Mike’s leadership with I believe a grand total of 4 Division Titles and 1 Conference Champion in those 34 years. There may still be time yet for redemption in Mike’s twilight years, but he’s going to have to jump way outside of his comfort zone. They almost caught lightning in a bottle in 21, but the front office quickly squandered that roster. Here’s to hoping he can figure it out before he passes and Burrow leaves or retires. I’m sick of bitching about nepotistic ineptitude and would like to see a title sooner than late. If they don’t get one during Burrow’s tenure it likely ain’t happening.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(Yesterday, 12:12 AM)jj22 Wrote: This was old news. Zac’s big mistake was letting BC get to Cleveland. Surely he would have wanted to coach with his son and disciple. Who stopped that from happening is the question? The FO? Zac had already shown he didn’t want Pollack when he passed him over for Turner.

MB just wanted him back to use all the practice equipment and gadgets they bought for him the first go round with the team. 

(Yesterday, 01:24 AM)pally Wrote: Bill Callahan has said more than once that he would only work on the same staff as Brian if Brian was HC.  So as long as Brian was our OC, Bill wasn’t coming here.  And as he had plenty of other opportunities, he didn’t need the job

I think everyone is mis-remembering just a tad: Zac went after Callahan when he became coach and Washington blocked it outright. Once he went to Cleveland, at that point, he, "announced," (as I don't remember if he said it explicitly or anything) that he wouldn't join a staff unless Brian was the coach.

Had Washington not blocked it first time around, I think he would've been here.

[ERIC1]

(01-07-2025, 10:56 PM)samhain Wrote: No idea how valid this rumor is, but James Rapien, I believe casually dropped this tidbit yesterday: Pollack wanted the team to draft Creed Humphrey over Carman.  It was on the Locked on Bengals podcast during a discussion of the firings yesterday.

Also, don't recall of it was on that show or on Malik Wright's pod yesterday, but apparently Zac and Pollack never saw eye to eye, particularly with the run game coordination.  Zac was more or less forced to fire his homeboy in Turner, and Pollack was in the position of being the guy that ownership was familiar with.  We know how the fam loves familiarity.  

Why does this matter?  As to the Carman/Humphrey alleged overruling, you have wonder who made the call to take Carman.  Was it Zac?  Seems unlikely that it was.  Seems generally unlikely that it was a decision made by an actual current football person.  I'd say Piano Man blessing and a local background pulled on Mikey's heartstrings.  He loves local guys.  Alexander is gone, but far from forgotten in the organization.

The Carman impact was brutal.  Imagine having arguably the best center in the league to pair with the top QB in this offense.  We got a guy that started 6 games and stayed in the doghouse.  

Both tidbits should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt (If you really have no understanding of how the family historically operates).  IMO these occurrences should temper expectations in the current hiring processes.  As Big Willie once said, these guys want to hire their friends first and foremost.  Dudes they know and have worked with.  It's also unlikely that Zac wants an in-house threat to his job as a DC.  When they don't get to hire their guys, things can get dicey.  Then again, Willie also vouched for Carman......

Also, it doesn't matter what a new DC or OL coach may have as a personal vision if there's always a possibility of them being overruled by non football people up in the suites.

nice work of fiction 

[Whatever]

Mike really needs to quit listening to his former coaches and players regarding draft prospects. It was TJ who did him dirty by vouching for Burton's character issues. These guys just play him for a sucker time and again.

[ERIC1]

(01-07-2025, 11:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The fact that Pollack wanted Humphrey has been well known for quite a while. It’s been discussed on this very board. Mims also just stated that Pollack was the one who “stood on the table” to draft him. Carman was 100% on Mike Brown.

As for Pollack and Zac not seeing eye to eye that was obvious. They weren’t at all a good fit. Frank comes from under center/wide zone. It was always trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with these two. The next guy needs to better suited to what Zac and Joe want to do.

there are no facts that POllack wanted Humphrey ..nor does the fact that it was discussed on the "Board" make it true

[ERIC1]

(Yesterday, 10:47 AM)Whatever Wrote: Mike really needs to quit listening to his former coaches and players regarding draft prospects.  It was TJ who did him dirty by vouching for Burton's character issues.  These guys just play him for a sucker time and again.

we hear former coaches and players along with I am sure Mike Brown and others in the organization do...... ...But..absolutely no one on this Board of passionate football fans know why certain players are drafted and by whom in the organization nor do we know how much former players and coaches influence Brown