Pollack, Carman, Humphrey, OUCH.

[ERIC1]

(01-08-2025, 05:09 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: He might be a “football guy,” but his record over the last 30+ years proves he isn’t a very good one, and he played college in the leather helmet era.  Mike’s way has unquestionably proven to be below average, and that’s being charitable. The Bengals have had a total of 10 winning seasons under 34 years of Mike’s leadership with I believe a grand total of 4 Division Titles  and 1 Conference Champion in those 34 years.  There may still be time yet for redemption in Mike’s twilight years, but he’s going to have to jump way outside of his comfort zone.  They almost caught lightning in a bottle in 21, but the front office quickly squandered that roster.  Here’s to hoping he can figure it out before he passes and Burrow leaves or retires.  I’m sick of bitching about nepotistic ineptitude and would like to see a title sooner than late.  If they don’t get one during Burrow’s tenure it likely ain’t happening.

superbowl..a few years back...next year AFC championship game..the year after burrow gets hurt and misses half a season..this year a beaucoup amount of injuries and we still finish with a winning record.......If I was Mike Brown..I would have taken the extra 75million Baltimore  was offering and moved the team ..MIke is our curmudgeon..we have a team because of him and I think we have moved in the right direction..They need to address the trenches and get it right

[ERIC1]

(01-07-2025, 11:13 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Yea no crap. Coaches get fired for what is ultimately Mike and Duke’s fault

who knows Frank..maybe POllack and Lou were heavily involved in the drafting of certain  bad players and letting some good one s go..along with rather poor and inconsistent coaching and player development

[ERIC1]

(01-08-2025, 01:53 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: It came out in 2022 that Pollack didn't want Carman and he pushed for Humphrey. He also pounded the table for Trey Smith in the 2021 draft as well. I give credit to Pollack for that one. Carman falls squarely on the FO.

However, the FO listened to Pollack in the 2022 draft and gave him a guy he really wanted, which was Cordell Volson. 

Also, Pollack was clearly a front office hire. It was known that the FO loved him and didn't want him to leave after 2018. We had Jim Turner, who is arguably one of the worst hires ever in team history. Pollack's style doesn't mesh with the offense that we've had to implement for Burrow.

There's a lot of blame on multiple sides with these failures. 

lots of things "come out" does not mean they are factual and true

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-08-2025, 10:46 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: nice work of fiction 

(01-08-2025, 10:48 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: there are no facts that POllack wanted Humphrey ..nor does the fact that it was discussed on the "Board" make it true

(01-08-2025, 11:00 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: lots of things "come out" does not mean they are factual and true

What exactly would one be hoping to achieve with posts like this?

[The D.O.Z.]

I think Clemson Jackson Carman was a fine LT. I think that, had he been drafted to a team that didn’t try to make him a guard, a team that couldn’t even figure out its identity (they wanted wide zone under Pollack for HOW LONG before they finally decided it wouldn’t work.), that he MAY really have been a first round talent at the time he was drafted. Some guys just aren’t meant to switch positions or work in schemes that feature tools not found in the player’s toolkit. I think we ruined him, personally. Hindsight being 20-20 now, I wonder how he would have fared at LT if we had moved Jonah over to RT sooner than we did. Or just let him be Jonah’s backup and swing tackle until it was time to let Jonah go. I hated missing out on Creed Humphrey, don’t get me wrong, but they completely mismanaged Carman from the get go and that makes the blow hit even harder.

[PCB Bengal Fan]

(01-08-2025, 12:46 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: You can debate decisions and success but Mike Brown is not a non football petson, he played college and has been involved in nfl football since 1968

He's been a failure without his dad. Mike thinks of himself as a football genius (narcissist), kinda like Jerry Jones, but he has proven time & time again that he's been over his head without his dad's football IQ. I think he's a great business man who's not great at his football job.

[PCB Bengal Fan]

(01-08-2025, 11:55 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: What exactly would one be hoping to achieve with posts like this? 

I blocked him quick.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(01-07-2025, 10:56 PM)samhain Wrote: No idea how valid this rumor is, but James Rapien, I believe casually dropped this tidbit yesterday: Pollack wanted the team to draft Creed Humphrey over Carman.  It was on the Locked on Bengals podcast during a discussion of the firings yesterday.

Also, don't recall of it was on that show or on Malik Wright's pod yesterday, but apparently Zac and Pollack never saw eye to eye, particularly with the run game coordination.  Zac was more or less forced to fire his homeboy in Turner, and Pollack was in the position of being the guy that ownership was familiar with.  We know how the fam loves familiarity.  

Why does this matter?  As to the Carman/Humphrey alleged overruling, you have wonder who made the call to take Carman.  Was it Zac?  Seems unlikely that it was.  Seems generally unlikely that it was a decision made by an actual current football person.  I'd say Piano Man blessing and a local background pulled on Mikey's heartstrings.  He loves local guys.  Alexander is gone, but far from forgotten in the organization.

The Carman impact was brutal.  Imagine having arguably the best center in the league to pair with the top QB in this offense.  We got a guy that started 6 games and stayed in the doghouse.  

Both tidbits should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt (If you really have no understanding of how the family historically operates).  IMO these occurrences should temper expectations in the current hiring processes.  As Big Willie once said, these guys want to hire their friends first and foremost.  Dudes they know and have worked with.  It's also unlikely that Zac wants an in-house threat to his job as a DC.  When they don't get to hire their guys, things can get dicey.  Then again, Willie also vouched for Carman......

Also, it doesn't matter what a new DC or OL coach may have as a personal vision if there's always a possibility of them being overruled by non football people up in the suites.

If true you just dampered all my expectations for the future Sam. Thanks a lot.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-07-2025, 11:11 PM)Bengalion Wrote: Paul Alexander said Carmen was a first round talent...

Along with Ogbbeuhi and Fisher.  He actually debated on who to take that year with the first rounder.  The guy can't evaluate linemen for shit

[Soonerpeace]

(01-08-2025, 10:43 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I think everyone is mis-remembering just a tad: Zac went after Callahan when he became coach and Washington blocked it outright. Once he went to Cleveland, at that point, he, "announced," (as I don't remember if he said it explicitly or anything) that he wouldn't join a staff unless Brian was the coach.

Had Washington not blocked it first time around, I think he would've been here.

BC was never coming here. The dynamics of your son and former player Zac being your boss was not a fit. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-10-2025, 12:42 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: BC was never coming here. The dynamics of your son and former player Zac being your boss was not a fit. 

You know better than I and I'm not disagreeing, but we'll never know what wouldn't gone down 6 years ago at this point. Maybe Bill would've woken one day and decided to take the job if offered and not blocked who knows.

[BoomerFan]

(01-08-2025, 12:50 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: And at the office at 6/7 am and at every practice. 

Maybe we should start practices later. We might do better in Primetime games. 

[Sled21]

(01-09-2025, 10:52 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Along with Ogbbeuhi and Fisher.  He actually debated on who to take that year with the first rounder.  The guy can't evaluate linemen for shit

I still don't think you can judge what Fisher may have turned into due to his undiagnosed heart condition that rose up.

[*ochocincos*]

I hate to say it, but a position does not always get their way, even if this was true.

And with the way we've seen the OL perform, who is to say Creed Humphrey will be the same caliber CH we see on the Chiefs?
I'm gonna bet not.

Pollack was not an overly good OL coach, as evidenced by the OL pass blocking in 2018 with the Bengals, his stint with the Jets, and then since he came back.

Look at QBs like Darnold and Mayfield.
They are thriving once in an environment and team that fits them well.
Places like the Jets and Browns don't seem good for any QB, even veterans who have played well prior to going there.
Same thing can be true with players at other positions.

[lone bengal]

We blame Alexander, Turner and Pollock for the O-line failures so were these 3 coaches the problem ? Tobin is the one variable that remains the same. Outside of Mims who looks promising name the last offensive lineman this team developed ? Maybe Clint Boling from 2011 draft ? Kevin Zeitler was taken in 2012 as a 1st rounder.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(Yesterday, 10:21 AM)lone bengal Wrote: We blame Alexander, Turner and Pollock for the O-line failures so were these 3 coaches the problem ? Tobin is the one variable that remains the same. Outside of Mims who looks promising name the last offensive lineman this team developed ? Maybe Clint Boling from 2011 draft ? Kevin Zeitler was taken in 2012 as a 1st rounder.

And it’s not much better on the other side of the ball. Duke absolutely sucks at drafting trenches.

[samhain]

(01-08-2025, 10:46 AM)ERIC1 Wrote: nice work of fiction 

So I am clear: James Rapien, a journalist who's in Paycor daily, for actual work and livelihood, is just spinning fictional yarns for fun.  That about right?  A guy who interacts with the team as much as anyone thinks that he can make up a bald-faced, malicious lie about the team without facing consequences?  

Much as I dislike him, he's never been known for making shit up.

But you know the real story. Sure.

[samhain]

(01-09-2025, 10:52 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Along with Ogbbeuhi and Fisher.  He actually debated on who to take that year with the first rounder.  The guy can't evaluate linemen for shit

They were good at it for awhile.  Whitworth, Levi, Willie, Stacy Andrews.  When Alexander decided he wanted power forwards more than massive OTs, things went to absolute shit.  

[pulses]

(Today, 12:28 AM)samhain Wrote: So I am clear: James Rapien, a journalist who's in Paycor daily, for actual work and livelihood, is just spinning fictional yarns for fun.  That about right?  A guy who interacts with the team as much as anyone thinks that he can make up a bald-faced, malicious lie about the team without facing consequences?  

Much as I dislike him, he's never been known for making shit up.

But you know the real story. Sure.

Not much of a fan of Rapien myself but yeah he's not gonna make shit up like that.

[Soonerpeace]

(01-07-2025, 10:56 PM)samhain Wrote: No idea how valid this rumor is, but James Rapien, I believe casually dropped this tidbit yesterday: Pollack wanted the team to draft Creed Humphrey over Carman.  It was on the Locked on Bengals podcast during a discussion of the firings yesterday.

Also, don't recall of it was on that show or on Malik Wright's pod yesterday, but apparently Zac and Pollack never saw eye to eye, particularly with the run game coordination.  Zac was more or less forced to fire his homeboy in Turner, and Pollack was in the position of being the guy that ownership was familiar with.  We know how the fam loves familiarity.  

Why does this matter?  As to the Carman/Humphrey alleged overruling, you have wonder who made the call to take Carman.  Was it Zac?  Seems unlikely that it was.  Seems generally unlikely that it was a decision made by an actual current football person.  I'd say Piano Man blessing and a local background pulled on Mikey's heartstrings.  He loves local guys.  Alexander is gone, but far from forgotten in the organization.

The Carman impact was brutal.  Imagine having arguably the best center in the league to pair with the top QB in this offense.  We got a guy that started 6 games and stayed in the doghouse.  

Both tidbits should perhaps be taken with a grain of salt (If you really have no understanding of how the family historically operates).  IMO these occurrences should temper expectations in the current hiring processes.  As Big Willie once said, these guys want to hire their friends first and foremost.  Dudes they know and have worked with.  It's also unlikely that Zac wants an in-house threat to his job as a DC.  When they don't get to hire their guys, things can get dicey.  Then again, Willie also vouched for Carman......

Also, it doesn't matter what a new DC or OL coach may have as a personal vision if there's always a possibility of them being overruled by non football people up in the suites.

A lot is true. As far as Creed we needed a guard more. No clue if Pollack wanted Creed.