Facemask Penalty to become reviewable

[KillerGoose]

(10 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: I'll tell you why, and I've said it before. I am totally convinced the officials are using proxies and betting on games now that it is so easy to do. They are not full-time and not really paid that great, so the temptation for them to bet on a game they can somewhat control has to be great. No one can tell me they legit missed that many facemasks on Burrow. It would be different if it were a running back or receiver having their mask grabbed, but you are not even allowed to touch a QB's head. No way you miss that. Yeah, they ignored them on purpose and I suspect it has to do with money.

Am I reading this correctly? You, of all people, are planting your flag on the idea that part-time referees who are paid ~$250k per season aren't "paid that great"? Hell has ***** frozen over. Pigs are piloting the F-22s. 

[SunsetBengal]

(7 hours ago)Nepa Wrote: You are speaking about "penalty for players," not for officials, and yet conclude on that basis of penalties for players that officials would not risk being associated with gambling. The reality is officials are only part-time and have another full-time job that is their main income source (some own businesses, are accountants, high school teachers, own farms, are bankers, dentists, etc.). A player has everything to lose, including their main income source, loss of money from commercials, and high-profile awareness of their crime. For an official, the benefit/risk is very different.

In addition to a greater risk of officials being influenced in their calls because of gambling -- either directly or because they know their family or friends or colleagues are gambling on the game -- the fact that they are part-time means they also are subject more to pressures to be biased in their calls. Their friends, family, colleagues and their own favorite teams enter into the mix, because this is only their part-time job. 

Okay, seems like the league is pretty in depth into the officials lives, as well.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/former_vp_of_officiating_explains_nfl_procedures_for_refs_amid_legalized_gambling/s1_13132_39677914

Quote:Dean Blandino knows what he's talking about when it comes to NFL officiating.


Blandino was the NFL's vice president of officiating from 2012 to 2017. He's now a rules analyst for Fox Sports, so he went from reffing the game to talking about it on Saturdays and Sundays — largely dissecting rules and instant replay challenges.

Speaking of talking, Blandino was recently on the "Awful Announcing" podcast, where he was discussing the widespread legalization of sports gambling and how it has impacted the jobs of NFL referees.

He explained the in-depth investigation the league goes into before an official is fired.

“They look at all of your business associations. They look for conflicts of interest — all of that, bank accounts, everything,” Balndino explained.

Interestingly enough, NFL referees aren't even allowed to wear league gear while outside of the stadium, because officials have been approached in the past in an effort to try to manipulate games for betting purposes.

“We’ve had situations where people were approached,” Blandino shockingly said. “We’ve always told our game officials because they’re in hotels — they’re traveling around during the season — we didn’t want them wearing NFL-branded gear. We didn’t want them to be [conspicuous] because someone sees them and, ‘Oh, those are the NFL officials,’ and then you never know. You don’t know who you’re gonna come across. And they know that they’re supposed to go to NFL security if something like that happens. And that has happened in the past.

“They’re not allowed to go…if they have to go to their casino, maybe in their other job, there’s a speaking engagement, it’s at a casino they can’t go in the sportsbook. They have to let the NFL know that they’re gonna be in Las Vegas for this event and are gonna be staying at wherever. There are a lot of controls in place.”

The good news for fans of the integrity of the NFL game is that Blandino's explanation of the "controls" in place does paint a pretty strict picture.

With that said, all it takes is one referee (See: Donaghy, Tim) to swerve off the beaten path, and this whole thing could come crashing down.

[Nepa]

(7 hours ago)KillerGoose Wrote: Am I reading this correctly? You, of all people, are planting your flag on the idea that part-time referees who are paid ~$250k per season aren't "paid that great"? Hell has ***** frozen over. Pigs are piloting the F-22s. 

Never underestimate the power of money to corrupt. Congressmen make a lot of money and still engage in insider trading. Cue Martha Stewart as another example. There is huge money in gambling. Huge. I'm not the one who originally made the statement you are commenting on, and I think the risk to players -- especially top players with huge contracts and endorsement deals -- is too great to get involved with gambling. But NFL officials? Very surprised if they are immune from corruption. And Tim Donaghy's story in the NBA is a perfect example -- and he was a full-time referee, not part-time.

[KillerGoose]

(7 hours ago)Nepa Wrote: Never underestimate the power of money to corrupt. Congressmen make a lot of money and still engage in insider trading. Cue Martha Stewart as another example. There is huge money in gambling. Huge. I'm not the one who originally made the statement you are commenting on, and I think the risk to players -- especially top players with huge contracts and endorsement deals -- is too great to get involved with gambling. But NFL officials? Very surprised if they are immune from corruption. And Tim Donaghy's story in the NBA is a perfect example -- and he was a full-time referee, not part-time.

I am not refuting the idea the officials can be corrupted. I am more jabbing at Sled because he is probably the biggest curmudgeon on the board when it comes to players and their money. To see him say a part-time employee who is paid $250k is not paid well is shocking. 

[*PhilHos*]

(8 hours ago)rfaulk34 Wrote: This is not up for a red flag challenge. It's up for replay assist. It's a quicker thing that replay catches and calls down to the ref to throw the flag. The delay wouldn't be more than a few seconds. 

Why isn't the replay official already doing that, though? Like how many BLATANT penalties that aren't called are easily seen in the replay shown on TV. I think the replay official should have full control to throw a flag (so to speak) and call out penalties that are obvious that weren't called. Make it so it has to be completely obvious that it's a penalty so that ticky tack or really close PI or holding isn't constantly being called by the replay official, but I don't see why this isn't a thing already.

It's not like there are a LOT of missed penalties every game, but the fact that there have been some AND ones that have potentially cost teams games AND the solution is kinda already in place, I don't see why the NFL isn't already doing it.

[StoneTheCrow]

(8 hours ago)QueenCity Wrote: Same but that's before I thought once he got some tenure in the NFL those calls would come... and they haven't.

It’s infuriating how absolutely bludgeoned the guy gets without a flag being thrown. A top 3 player in the league can’t get calls. Double middle fingers to the Bengals at all times from the NFL.

[Luvnit2]

It is good to see the NFL now reviews spots border line on line of gain and now facemask potential penalties. I though they have been quick to rule on no first downs or a first down in NY.

Facemasks should be quick as well. The tough part will be checking for a facemask penalty off the ball. As we know, lots of facemasks occur on other players besides the ball carrier. I like it.

In the age of gambling, it is one more counter motive to stop a compromised ref from determining the outcome of a game.

As for the length the NFL can go to look at a ref's bank records, not an easy lift to get a warrant on a whim of simply thinking a ref is making calls to ensure one team covers the spread.

Maybe an attorney can weigh in on the ease of checking a private citizen's bank records without probable cause.

[SunsetBengal]

(6 hours ago)StoneTheCrow Wrote: It’s infuriating how absolutely bludgeoned the guy gets without a flag being thrown. A top 3 player in the league can’t get calls. Double middle fingers to the Bengals at all times from the NFL.

That has to be at least partly due to Joe's toughness and reticence. He typically pops right back up and never approaches the officials asking "where's the flag"?  I mean if he hit the ground and started rolling around doing some sort of 'whip and neigh neigh' routine like he was dying, they'd likely flag it every time. 

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

I would not mind them looking into the roughing calls as well, maybe double looking the no calls. Would result in a good database for referencing future calls, no calls, and reasoning why.

[StoneTheCrow]

(6 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: That has to be at least partly due to Joe's toughness and reticence. He typically pops right back up and never approaches the officials asking "where's the flag"?  I mean if he hit the ground and started rolling around doing some sort of 'whip and neigh neigh' routine like he was dying, they'd likely flag it every time. 

They call that the Patty.

IMO team should be curating videos of these instances and sending them to the league and requesting a response. At least let them know that you know. Maybe they already are and it just doesn’t work.

[Big Boss]

(10 hours ago)Bengalitis Wrote: yikes, this will make football much slower.. rather, I hope it can be considered when a play is reviewable.. but to review a call for a facemask.. hmmm no..

I'm happy to spend another 10 minutes watching a game if it means less chance of my team getting ****** out of a win.  

[Sled21]

(8 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: In the day and age where the digital footprint is everywhere, you don't feel that the NFL is smart enough to track who's doing what on the online gambling sites? I'd venture to say that the league likely makes players, personnel and officials all sign full disclosure forms allowing for tracking of their online activities.

I realize you just want to argue with anything I type, but you might want to look up the word I used in my original post......"Proxies"
How in the hell, in this day of legalized sports gambling that can be done at casinos or online and hundreds of thousands are betting, would anyone be able to know, let alone prove, it someone was placing bets for referees? You don't really think they would be making the bets themselves do you??? Or maybe you just do....

[Sled21]

(7 hours ago)KillerGoose Wrote: Am I reading this correctly? You, of all people, are planting your flag on the idea that part-time referees who are paid ~$250k per season aren't "paid that great"? Hell has ***** frozen over. Pigs are piloting the F-22s. 

It's relative. He compared players gambling to referees. When you have players making millions, and refs making 100K to a max of 250K, then yes, the money the refs make is "Not that great." That doesn't mean the money the refs make is not that great when compared to the rest of society. 

[Sled21]

(7 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: Okay, seems like the league is pretty in depth into the officials lives, as well.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/former_vp_of_officiating_explains_nfl_procedures_for_refs_amid_legalized_gambling/s1_13132_39677914

All that means nothing. If I were an NFL ref and had a grade school buddy who lives 10 states away from me placing bets in his name and we were sharing the money under the table, do you really think the league would know. You can't be that naive.

[SunsetBengal]

(5 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: It's relative. He compared players gambling to referees. When you have players making millions, and refs making 100K to a max of 250K, then yes, the money the refs make is "Not that great." That doesn't mean the money the refs make is not that great when compared to the rest of society. 

I did not compare players gambling to referees gambling, I only pointed out that the NFL likely has a punishment system in place since the penalties for players gambling is so high. (This of course is after your tin foil hat attempt to derail the thread from its original intent)

[KillerGoose]

(5 hours ago)Sled21 Wrote: It's relative. He compared players gambling to referees. When you have players making millions, and refs making 100K to a max of 250K, then yes, the money the refs make is "Not that great." That doesn't mean the money the refs make is not that great when compared to the rest of society. 

Nowhere in Sunset's quoted post did he compare players gambling to referees. As a matter of fact, he never mentioned gambling whatsoever. You were the one to bring up gambling and initiate that whole conversation.

[*rfaulk34*]

(7 hours ago)PhilHos Wrote: Why isn't the replay official already doing that, though? Like how many BLATANT penalties that aren't called are easily seen in the replay shown on TV. I think the replay official should have full control to throw a flag (so to speak) and call out penalties that are obvious that weren't called. Make it so it has to be completely obvious that it's a penalty so that ticky tack or really close PI or holding isn't constantly being called by the replay official, but I don't see why this isn't a thing already.

It's not like there are a LOT of missed penalties every game, but the fact that there have been some AND ones that have potentially cost teams games AND the solution is kinda already in place, I don't see why the NFL isn't already doing it.

Because they want their guys on the field to make and get the calls right. It's slowly trending towards more and more 'eye in the sky' and that would benefit everyone but the NFL is slow to change and adapt. 

[t3r3e3]

(7 hours ago)Nepa Wrote: Never underestimate the power of money to corrupt. Congressmen make a lot of money and still engage in insider trading. Cue Martha Stewart as another example. There is huge money in gambling. Huge. I'm not the one who originally made the statement you are commenting on, and I think the risk to players -- especially top players with huge contracts and endorsement deals -- is too great to get involved with gambling. But NFL officials? Very surprised if they are immune from corruption. And Tim Donaghy's story in the NBA is a perfect example -- and he was a full-time referee, not part-time.

The difference between Martha Stewart and 95% of your elected Congress is the Congress pays no penalty for insider trading. Almost all of them do it and they do not get in trouble. People who aren’t in Congress go to prison. When everyone bitches about long-term politicians amassing fortunes, it’s mostly gotten by years of insider trading-fueled Wall Street activities. When you’re getting briefed about shit that’s gonna impact the markets several days before it actually happens, it’s almost like knowing how the score of a football game is gonna turn out before it’s played.

RE: facemask reviews, it’s about time. The last play of the second Ravens game alone is reason for this to happen.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: In the column of "too little, too late", at least for Joe Burrow and the Bengals this season, it seems that the ever so reactive NFL is doing what had already should have been done.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/nfl-might-be-changing-facemask-reviews-that-impacted-joe-burrow/ar-AA1xmUVQ?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=af84a88087534726b68546514be3282b&ei=17

This is a good thing, the refs were missing terrible facemasks this year and calling non existent ones. It was bad and we saw it first hand 
where the missed calls cost us games. Too little to late is correct though, might of been in the Playoffs if the right calls were made.

[*rfaulk34*]

(8 hours ago)rfaulk34 Wrote: This is not up for a red flag challenge. It's up for replay assist. It's a quicker thing that replay catches and calls down to the ref to throw the flag. The delay wouldn't be more than a few seconds. 

Gotta be quicker than that, Truck!!!