Happy Tampering Day

[Luvnit2]

(03-11-2025, 03:04 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: So you're in the boat the defensive issues last year were 100% coaching?  We've seen what Ossai can and cannot do.  From my standpoint, it doesn't move the needle on improving our pass rush from last year.  Come to think of it, there's been no roster improvements to our pass rush thus far.  

I won't speak for Nate, but I believe FA has not startd officially yet and we have a lot of cap room. I don't think the FO cut vets like Cappa and Rankins for no reason. I think the Bengals will upgrade the guard situation and either bring in a DE/Edge, CB or safety.

Many like you act as though we are done, we are not in my humble opinion. Wave 1 is known for a bunch of teams overpaying. Wave 2 will happen in about a week as the market settles down and the big spenders have exhausted their cap so less competition to land a good player at a reasonable offer. These tier 2 players will improve our roster.

As for Ossai and I will add Murphy, they showed great improvement the last half of 2024. Jenkins and McKinnley (especially McKinnley) showed great improvement the past part of 2024.

A team has to develop their roster. The coaches were fired because they did not develop players. Bengals FO recognized it and brought in new coaches. It will never be 1 player in FA or the draft that makes us suddenly be a Super Bowl threat, it will be mutiple reasons including better coaching and 2nd and 3rd year players stepping up and being better. Murphy is in year 3, let's see if he can step up. If not Murphy, maybe it is Ossai, if not Ossai maybe it is Johnson, or maybe  draft pick.

[Southpaw Frerotte]

(03-11-2025, 02:51 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Have you ever heard the expression, "When you are in a hole, stop digging?" 

I think priority #1 was not to lose any of our main/best guys. 

Though it is not the way we wanted, nor the way to maximize cap space, Chase/Trey/Tee are under team control. They cannot leave atm. 

BJ Hill, Gesicki, and Ossai all contributed last year. Hill & Gesticki at good levels. 

The only real contributors we lost are Hilton and ADG. Burks is a cheaper/better ADG replacement. And though Mike is an elite run defending corner, THE elite run defending corner, the coverage is starting to slip. He is still unsigned, BTW. 

Slaton is an upgrade to Jenkins/Jackson as a run stopper. A starter forca good run D in GB for 2 years. 

We cut some dead weight in Rankins, Cappa, Hubbard. 

Upgrading G, nailing the draft, and getting the Tee/Chase/Trey deals right, and a Burrow restructure will allow some more moves, if we want. But I think getting younger/cheaper/more athletic is the way for a lot of D improvements. 

There is still time to get this right.

Upgrading Guard?  That's been a reoccurring need for how many years now?
Nailing the draft?  Shouldn't this be the case for every year?  
Tee/Chase/Trey deals?  Those could have been addressed well before now
Burrow restructure?  That could have been addressed well before now

I also missed your note about upgrading the pass rush.  From my stand point, most of these could have already been addressed and yet here we stand, in basically the same spot as last year.  

[Luvnit2]

(03-11-2025, 04:25 PM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Upgrading Guard?  That's been a reoccurring need for how many years now?
Nailing the draft?  Shouldn't this be the case for every year?  
Tee/Chase/Trey deals?  Those could have been addressed well before now
Burrow restructure?  That could have been addressed well before now

I also missed your note about upgrading the pass rush.  From my stand point, most of these could have already been addressed and yet here we stand, in basically the same spot as last year.  

Do you realize every player getting extremely player friendly deals get them becaus their existing team did not have the foresight to sign them at a less expensive rate prior to the year they hit FA?

Do you realize the teams like the Pats who had ver 120 miilion in cap space did not spend money wisely or they would not be drafting in the 4th position after a poor record in 2023 also. 

Why does any team over pay in FA? Simple, they did not draft well and or did not develop their players. 

The Bengals are just like the other teams, they make mistakes assembling a roster. In essence, only the Super Bowl winner had a great off season the year they win it all. The rest are losers in the end.

What is your hurry to spend money or restructure 4 guys under contract in FA? The team is focusing on developing an entire roster, one on 2025 that aready includes CHASE, HIGGINS, HENDREICKSON AND BURROW.

[samhain]

It seems that the powers that be believe two things:

1. Last season's shortcomings fall largely on the shoulders of Lou Anarumo.

2. Al Golden's ability to coach up young players is enough to make the defense, idk, okay-ish enough to win with an elite offense.

Maybe they are correct, but to me this seems unlikely. While his seeming inability to develop young players hurt the team, there's a lot you have to overlook to think that alone caused the drop-off. Lou flat-out had better players in 21 and 22. He lost some guys that were among the best at their positions.

The 21 and 22 squads had good to very good players at every level of the defense.

It's tough to escape the most basic concept here: Better players get better results. It's not a tough mental curb to climb. They got worse because the players weren't as good. Lou owns some of that because he failed to develop replacements despite high draft picks. Does he own all of it? Does a guy that built his reputation on confounding the league's most feared quarterback repeatedly all of a sudden become garbage? Eh, I have my doubts. Not letting him off the hook, just questioning the method of repair here.

This defense looks to have personnel that will be very middle of the road. Doesn't matter who runs it if you have unathletic guys like Stone playing tons of snaps.

[WeezyBengal]

(03-11-2025, 04:35 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Do you realize every player getting extremely player friendly deals get them becaus their exeisting team did not have the foresight to sign them at a less expensive rate prior to the year they hit FA?

Do you realize the teams like the Pats who had ver 120 miilion in cap space did not spend money wisely or they would not be drafting in the 4th position after a poor record in 2023 also. 

Why does any team over pay in FA? Simple, they did not draft well and or did not develop their players. 

The Bengals are just like the other teams, they make mistakes assembling a roster. In essence, only the Super Bowl winner had a great off season the year they win it all. The rest are losers in the end.

What is your hurry to spend money or restructure 4 guys under contract in FA? The team is focusing on developing an entire roster, one on 2025 that aready includes CHASE, HIGGINS, HENDREICKSON AND BURROW.

Are you really refuting that the Chase, Higgins, and Hendrickson contracts shouldn't have been addressed already? 

Tobin himself said he wanted them done to give more clarity during free agency. The Bengals could have saved a shit ton of money by having these deals done LAST off-season. 

There is literally no incentive to continue waiting to get these deals done. None. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2025, 04:21 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I won't speak for Nate, but I believe FA has not startd officially yet and we have a lot of cap room. I don't think the FO cut vets like Cappa and Rankins for no reason. I think the Bengals will upgrade the guard situation and either bring in a DE/Edge, CB or safety.

Many like you act as though we are done, we are not in my humble opinion. Wave 1 is known for a bunch of teams overpaying. Wave 2 will happen in about a week as the market settles down and the big spenders have exhausted their cap so less competition to land a good player at a reasonable offer. These tier 2 players will improve our roster.

As for Ossai and I will add Murphy, they showed great improvement the last half of 2024. Jenkins and McKinnley (especially McKinnley) showed great improvement the past part of 2024.

A team has to develop their roster. The coaches were fired because they did not develop players. Bengals FO recognized it and brought in new coaches. It will never be 1 player in FA or the draft that makes us suddenly be a Super Bowl threat, it will be mutiple reasons including better coaching and 2nd and 3rd year players stepping up and being better. Murphy is in year 3, let's see if he can step up. If not Murphy, maybe it is Ossai, if not Ossai maybe it is Johnson, or maybe  draft pick.

Well you spoke pretty well for me Luvnit. 

Murphy specifically I think gained too much muscle last Offseason. He had no quicks, couldn't finish last season and he was a step slow.

Players usually aren't great in their rookie seasons especially DL. To think we should have no growth in year two from Kris Jenkins and 
McKinnley Jackson doesn't make much sense especially under better coaching. Never liked the growth of DL under Hobby, we will see how
they grow under Montgomery.

But like you said, we are far from done in FA since it hasn't even officially started yet. We are still in the tampering period and the DL looks
better at stopping the run with the addition of Slaton and bringing back BJ Hill. Ossai helps with the pass rush and should get better.

Guard is where I am most concerned right now, luckily there are still a lot of them out there to be had.

[RunKijanaRun]

The Bungles have ruined so many. People are defending this org’s nonsense.

I’m going to see how FA goes. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but thus far it’s not great. Borderline bad, frankly. Not over yet and as such, withholding my final grade. But we have a lot of work to do. A bunch.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2025, 05:30 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: The Bungles have ruined so many. People are defending this org’s nonsense.

I’m going to see how FA goes. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but thus far it’s not great. Borderline bad, frankly. Not over yet and as such, withholding my final grade. But we have a lot of work to do. A bunch.

I am not defending the org. Just being real. FA hasn't officially started yet. We will see if by the end of FA it still looks this bad shall we?

We need a Guard though, this is where the complaining should be IMO.

We all know the FO screwed up by not getting Ja'Marr's extension done before last season and they screwed up again saying they were
going to pay him the most of any non-QB.

True, we have a lot of work to do.

[Bengalbug]

(03-11-2025, 05:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am not defending the org. Just being real. FA hasn't officially started yet. We will see if by the end of FA it still looks this bad shall we?

We need a Guard though, this is where the complaining should be IMO.

We all know the FO screwed up by not getting Ja'Marr's extension done before last season and they screwed up again saying they were
going to pay him the most of any non-QB.

True, we have a lot of work to do.

Seems like they have nailed the Hendrickson negotiation.

[Luvnit2]

(03-11-2025, 05:25 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Are you really refuting that the Chase, Higgins, and Hendrickson contracts shouldn't have been addressed already? 

Tobin himself said he wanted them done to give more clarity during free agency. The Bengals could have saved a shit ton of money by having these deals done LAST off-season. 

There is literally no incentive to continue waiting to get these deals done. None. 

Trey, I disagree. It is not a priority. Chase, he played on a team friendly deal in 2024. If we spent money on him to win in 2024, it would not have worked, we lost with more cap space. The team attempted to sign Tee in the past. It take 2 to agree to the terms.

In the end, there is nothing the team. you or me can change about the waste. It is wasted energy debating something that can'r be changed.

The FO does control th future. I hope they sign Chase to a 5 yer extension. Tee, I hope we trade him for multiple picks and use his money to help the OL and the dL. Trey, I like his contract. He signed it. Why should the team be penalized for tyig Trey up years ago. Like I have said, he would not walk in and ask for pay cut i h had an average 2024.

I see no incentive for the team to do anything right now other than lock Jamar up for 3 or 5 more years. Anything else with Tee or Trey is far from urgent.

[Nepa]

(03-11-2025, 05:30 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: The Bungles have ruined so many. People are defending this org’s nonsense.

I’m going to see how FA goes. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but thus far it’s not great. Borderline bad, frankly. Not over yet and as such, withholding my final grade. But we have a lot of work to do. A bunch.

I enjoy your frankness. Makes for an enjoyable board.

[Nepa]

(03-11-2025, 05:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am not defending the org. Just being real. FA hasn't officially started yet. We will see if by the end of FA it still looks this bad shall we?

We need a Guard though, this is where the complaining should be IMO.

We all know the FO screwed up by not getting Ja'Marr's extension done before last season and they screwed up again saying they were
going to pay him the most of any non-QB.

True, we have a lot of work to do.

I agree with this.

[Nepa]

(03-11-2025, 05:46 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Seems like they have nailed the Hendrickson negotiation.

Did you hear something?

[Essex Johnson]

(03-11-2025, 05:19 PM)samhain Wrote: It seems that the powers that be believe two things:

1. Last season's shortcomings fall largely on the shoulders of Lou Anarumo.

2. Al Golden's ability to coach up young players is enough to make the defense, idk, okay-ish enough to win with an elite offense.  

Maybe they are correct, but to me this seems unlikely.  While his seeming inability to develop young players hurt the team, there's a lot you have to overlook to think that alone caused the drop-off.  Lou flat-out had better players in 21 and 22.  He lost some guys that were among the best at their positions.  

The 21 and 22 squads had good to very good players at every level of the defense.  

It's tough to escape the most basic concept here: Better players get better results.  It's not a tough mental curb to climb.  They got worse because the players weren't as good.  Lou owns some of that because he failed to develop replacements despite high draft picks.  Does he own all of it?  Does a guy that built his reputation on confounding the league's most feared quarterback repeatedly all of a sudden become garbage?  Eh, I have my doubts.  Not letting him off the hook, just questioning the method of repair here.  

This defense looks to have personnel that will be very middle of the road.  Doesn't matter who runs it if you have unathletic guys like Stone playing tons of snaps.

Lets be honest qe dont get to SB and Div. Championships without a solid defense, i wish someine remembers that soon

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2025, 05:46 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Seems like they have nailed the Hendrickson negotiation.

What do you mean Bengalbug?

[pulses]

I read an article today that stated we had talked about signing Ojulari but resigned Ossai instead. Why not sign both we need the pass rushers.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-11-2025, 06:18 PM)pulses Wrote: I read an article today that stated we had talked about signing Ojulari but resigned Ossai instead. Why not sign both we need the pass rushers.

Sounds good to me I like Ojulari better than Ossai.

[NUGDUKWE]

(03-11-2025, 05:30 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: The Bungles have ruined so many. People are defending this org’s nonsense.

I’m going to see how FA goes. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but thus far it’s not great. Borderline bad, frankly. Not over yet and as such, withholding my final grade. But we have a lot of work to do. A bunch.

Yes I've been mostly disappointed so far. We've found no way to improve our pass rush and have a massive question mark on trey that could make us significantly worse. 
I fear we've reached the point in free agency of i assume offering insulting offers to the guards that are available. I'm joking but I do think we are worrying again about saving as much as possible. I just don't see how a guy like Zietler played a 1yr 6 mil dollar deal we can't just offer him a 2-3 year deal in the range of 10mil per and not get a deal done. It's just upsetting because I think we get 2 guards and sign our big 3 and we really set ourselves up for the draft. The pass rush may not still be that great depending on rookies to do most of the increase but it may be our best option at this point.

[pulses]

(03-11-2025, 06:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sounds good to me I like Ojulari better than Ossai.

Yeah I would def be on board with that too.

[RunKijanaRun]

(03-11-2025, 05:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am not defending the org. Just being real. FA hasn't officially started yet. We will see if by the end of FA it still looks this bad shall we?

If you read my post, I said I was withholding judgment until it was over. But early returns are not good.

And it’s a relief FA hasn’t started. Was worried we missed on Fries and a few other guys.