Golden has ALOT to fix

[Joelist]

(04-01-2025, 07:34 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: How quick do you think Lou should have given up on his guys not being able to run his defense?  6 or 7 weeks?  Shouldnt you expect these guys to be able to pick up an NFL defense without needing it to be so simplified?   If Golden's defense is struggling after 6 or 7 weeks should he be blamed for not having a more simple defense too? or should the players be expected to learn what Golden wants them to do in his particular style defense?

Really he should have pulled the plug and simplified after maybe game 4. That was more than enough to tell you the defense he installed was too complex. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-01-2025, 07:34 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: How quick do you think Lou should have given up on his guys not being able to run his defense?  6 or 7 weeks?  Shouldnt you expect these guys to be able to pick up an NFL defense without needing it to be so simplified?   If Golden's defense is struggling after 6 or 7 weeks should he be blamed for not having a more simple defense too? or should the players be expected to learn what Golden wants them to do in his particular style defense?

We were loooooong past 6 or 7 weeks with Lou.

I mean, Lou had 3 years of his guys not being able to run his defense, then 1 postseason and 1 regular season of them being able to do so, followed by 2 more years of not being able to run his defense. That's 5 out of 6 years, not weeks.

If it's 5 years, you can't try to blame the players anymore for not being able to pick it up, you are doing something wrong.

[007BengalsFan]

(04-01-2025, 08:54 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We were loooooong past 6 or 7 weeks with Lou.

I mean, Lou had 3 years of his guys not being able to run his defense, then 1 postseason and 1 regular season of them being able to do so, followed by 2 more years of not being able to run his defense. That's 5 out of 6 years, not weeks.

If it's 5 years, you can't try to blame the players anymore for not being able to pick it up, you are doing something wrong.

Lou's defense carried us to the Super Bowl in 2021 and in 2022 were the #6 scoring defense in the NFL.  He did this with a defense that wasnt overly talented yet Bengals management decided to let leave some of the better talent Lou did have.  If Lou really was at fault and it wasnt a lack of talent on defense, the Bengals management should go all in on offense this draft and let Golden work with all this great talent Lou didnt coach up.  They already upgraded the DT spot and brought in a great LB free agent steal.  The offense needs a couple of guards, a true TE, another RB and could use another WR so the Bengals could spend all their draft picks on offense.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-02-2025, 08:31 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote:
Lou's defense carried us to the Super Bowl in 2021 and in 2022 were the #6 scoring defense in the NFL.  He did this with a defense that wasnt overly talented yet Bengals management decided to let leave some of the better talent Lou did have.  If Lou really was at fault and it wasnt a lack of talent on defense, the Bengals management should go all in on offense this draft and let Golden work with all this great talent Lou didnt coach up.  They already upgraded the DT spot and brought in a great LB free agent steal.  The offense needs a couple of guards, a true TE, another RB and could use another WR so the Bengals could spend all their draft picks on offense.

Those defenses did it with Jesse Bates III orchestrating the calls. It went to shit soon after Jesse left for Atlanta.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-02-2025, 08:31 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Lou's defense carried us to the Super Bowl in 2021 and in 2022 were the #6 scoring defense in the NFL.  He did this with a defense that wasnt overly talented yet Bengals management decided to let leave some of the better talent Lou did have.  If Lou really was at fault and it wasnt a lack of talent on defense, the Bengals management should go all in on offense this draft and let Golden work with all this great talent Lou didnt coach up.  They already upgraded the DT spot and brought in a great LB free agent steal.  The offense needs a couple of guards, a true TE, another RB and could use another WR so the Bengals could spend all their draft picks on offense.

Lou's defense carried us in the 2021 playoffs. It was a bad defense during the regular season.

2022 is the 1 year out of 6 that I mentioned.

The Bengals spent more money on Lou's defense bringing in outside FAs than they did on FAs in the entire rest of Bengals outside FA history COMBINED. We were among the top cap spenders on defense in the entire NFL for most of Lou's time here.

[Joelist]

(04-02-2025, 10:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lou's defense carried us in the 2021 playoffs. It was a bad defense during the regular season.

2022 is the 1 year out of 6 that I mentioned.

The Bengals spent more money on Lou's defense bringing in outside FAs than they did on FAs in the entire rest of Bengals outside FA history COMBINED. We were among the top cap spenders on defense in the entire NFL for most of Lou's time here.

Exactly. Lou's defense did not lack for resources. Unfortunately his alignments and calls were too complex for less experienced players to pick up and the combination of Hubbard and Bell hitting the physical wall at the same time didn't help. He needed to simplify the defense a LOT sooner than he did. He also needed to turn players loose to attack a lot sooner than he did. 

We'll have to see Golden's system but supposedly a strength of his is adapting to his players and also developing players. 

[Sled21]

(04-02-2025, 08:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Those defenses did it with Jesse Bates III orchestrating the calls. It went to shit soon after Jesse left for Atlanta.

And didn't Jessie Bates come out and complain after Lou got here that communication was poor? It simply seems that Lou is capable of drawing up great defenses but lacks in the ability to make his players understand it. 

[SunsetBengal]

(04-03-2025, 08:08 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And didn't Jessie Bates come out and complain after Lou got here that communication was poor? It simply seems that Lou is capable of drawing up great defenses but lacks in the ability to make his players understand it. 

90% of being an effective leader, teacher, coach, etc. is having the ability to get one's thoughts and ideas out to the intended audience in a way that they can easily understand. It'll be interesting to watch Indy's defensive performance this season and see if there are any parallels to how things went with the Bengals.

[Housh]

(04-02-2025, 11:37 PM)Joelist Wrote: Exactly. Lou's defense did not lack for resources. Unfortunately his alignments and calls were too complex for less experienced players to pick up and the combination of Hubbard and Bell hitting the physical wall at the same time didn't help. He needed to simplify the defense a LOT sooner than he did. He also needed to turn players loose to attack a lot sooner than he did. 

We'll have to see Golden's system but supposedly a strength of his is adapting to his players and also developing players. 

Idk what happened to Vonn in Carolina

[ERIC1]

(04-03-2025, 08:08 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And didn't Jessie Bates come out and complain after Lou got here that communication was poor? It simply seems that Lou is capable of drawing up great defenses but lacks in the ability to make his players understand it. 

and that is the reason..most likely..Lou is gone

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-30-2025, 10:13 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Hendrickson is great.  Hill is above average but nothing special.  The rest of those guys havent done much of anything. In their defense, most of the rest are young and could turn out to be really good football players.  At this point however, I dont see the defense having a lot of talent.  I would say our talent level is below average.  If our season started today with the current roster, I wouldnt expect Golden to have a good defense.  IMO, this defense still needs 3 or 4 additional guys for us to see real improvement.  I do think this will be addressed in the draft and ultimately I expect to see some good improvement from the defense this coming season so I am hopeful

Trey didn't start out special, neither do many of the best players in the NFL, it takes time. But I agree, at this point none of these players have 
done much as they are young. With good coaching and hard work any one of the players I listed could become special for all we know. I don't 
think it is a matter of talent. For example, guys like DJ Turner, Dax Hill, Kris Jenkins and McKinnley Jackson HAVE flashed talent already.

I expect a Defensive heavy draft as well and some good improvement this season as long as the new coaches aren't just inept even more so than
the last ones in developing the youth.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(04-03-2025, 09:47 AM)Housh Wrote: Idk what happened to Vonn in Carolina

Bad hammy.

[reuben.ahmed]

(04-04-2025, 01:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Bad hammy.

Taumarice disease

[samhain]

Agree with the OP.

It's gonna take a good old fashioned Al Golden shower to clean up the issues on this defense.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-05-2025, 08:57 PM)samhain Wrote: Agree with the OP.  

It's gonna take a good old fashioned Al Golden shower to clean up the issues on this defense.

Something tells me that the defense wanted to give Anarumo's play book a Golden Shower last year.. 

[Joelist]

(Yesterday, 02:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Something tells me that the defense wanted to give Anarumo's play book a Golden Shower last year.. 

I tend to agree. It’s pretty clear Lou needs veteran players to execute his scheme.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-02-2025, 08:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Those defenses did it with Jesse Bates III orchestrating the calls. It went to shit soon after Jesse left for Atlanta.

It wasn't really not-shit WITH Jessie prior to that.

Lou's first 3 years with Jessie Bates...
29th Overall / 25th Scoring / 25th 3rd Down / 26th Sacks / 28th Takeaways
26th Overall / 22nd Scoring / 20th 3rd Down / 32nd Sacks / 27th Takeaways
18th Overall / 17th Scoring / 22nd 3rd Down / 12th Sacks / 17th Takeaways

One amazing playoff run and 1 season following that. Bates was here for 4 years with Lou. Honestly 2022 seems a whole lot more like Andy Dalton's 2015. Hue Jackson leaving didn't made Dalton go to shit, he just went back closer to his norm than the 1 outlier year.

[SunsetBengal]

(6 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: It wasn't really not-shit WITH Jessie prior to that.

Lou's first 3 years with Jessie Bates...
29th Overall / 25th Scoring / 25th 3rd Down / 26th Sacks / 28th Takeaways
26th Overall / 22nd Scoring / 20th 3rd Down / 32nd Sacks / 27th Takeaways
18th Overall / 17th Scoring / 22nd 3rd Down / 12th Sacks / 17th Takeaways

One amazing playoff run and 1 season following that. Bates was here for 4 years with Lou. Honestly 2022 seems a whole lot more like Andy Dalton's 2015. Hue Jackson leaving didn't made Dalton go to shit, he just went back closer to his norm than the 1 outlier year.

The metrics that you are showing don't have any bearing on how the secondary communicated amongst their unit. Can't really apply any sort of context from those raw numbers, other than scoring and sacks were improved. Could be that pass rush and coverage correlate?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(6 hours ago)SunsetBengal Wrote: The metrics that you are showing don't have any bearing on how the secondary communicated amongst their unit. Can't really apply any sort of context from those raw numbers, other than scoring and sacks were improved. Could be that pass rush and coverage correlate?

21st passing defense / 22nd in QB Rating Allowed / 30th in pass plays of 20+ yards
19th passing defense / 22nd in QB Rating Allowed / 20th in pass plays of 20+ yards
26th passing defense / 18th in QB Rating Allowed / 31st in pass plays of 20+ yards