Trey Hendrickson Update

[Nicomo Cosca]

(Today, 08:50 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The point remains, this team spent a ton of money to have a powerful offense. That means there isn't a lot of money for a powerful defense. Then, people want to give a huge contract to one player at one position instead of filling needs at multiple positions. 44% of the Bengals total salary cap is going to Burrow, Chase and Higgins. Now the team is supposed to give another 100 million to Hendrickson. Who's going to play all the other positions?

If they could draft worth a damn it wouldn’t matter. Philly put all their money on the offensive side of the ball (QB, 2 WR’s, RB, & OL). The difference is they nail their draft picks. Jihaad Campbell is already having a great preseason. They just keep getting it right.

[Mickeypoo]

(Today, 10:14 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If they could draft worth a damn it wouldn’t matter. Philly put all their money on the offensive side of the ball (QB, 2 WR’s, RB, & OL). The difference is they nail their draft picks. Jihaad Campbell is already having a great preseason. They just keep getting it right.

Competency at the top.  We don't have that.  We have a couple lawyers and Duke Tobin, whatever his experience is/was.  lol.

Who is our GM?  Right, we don't technically have one.  

We can't nail draft picks and/or develop them, otherwise our D would be much better today.  Could it be because we have, by far, the smallest (incompetent?) scouting dept. in the NFL?

I am so tired of the Brown family ineptness.

[SunsetBengal]

(Today, 10:20 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Competency at the top.  We don't have that.  We have a couple lawyers and Duke Tobin, whatever his experience is/was.  lol.

Who is our GM?  Right, we don't technically have one.  

We can't nail draft picks and/or develop them, otherwise our D would be much better today.  Could it be because we have, by far, the smallest (incompetent?) scouting dept. in the NFL?

I am so tired of the Brown family ineptness.

Scouting department could be a part of the problem. However, even if you have a great scouting department, it doesn't matter if their advice falls upon deaf ears and the one making the selections is operating rogue.

[*Nately120*]

(Today, 08:50 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The point remains, this team spent a ton of money to have a powerful offense. That means there isn't a lot of money for a powerful defense. Then, people want to give a huge contract to one player at one position instead of filling needs at multiple positions. 44% of the Bengals total salary cap is going to Burrow, Chase and Higgins. Now the team is supposed to give another 100 million to Hendrickson. Who's going to play all the other positions?

Who, indeed.  I actually think your post names all the good players on our roster. 

[Mickeypoo]

(Today, 11:04 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Scouting department could be a part of the problem. However, even if you have a great scouting department, it doesn't matter if their advice falls upon deaf ears and the one making the selections is operating rogue.

This is true.  Not even sure why I am complaining.  Nothing any of us can do and the Brown Family OBVIOUSLY does not care what anyone else thinks about how they do things.  

[Brownshoe]

(Today, 08:07 AM)Sled21 Wrote: You know what, there are defensive teams and there are offensive teams. Very rarely is a team a powerhouse on both sides of the ball. Both Cleveland and Shitsburgh might have great defenses this year, but both will struggle to put points on the board. Meanwhile, we have an offensive powerhouse, and people complain because we don't have a top 5 defense. 

No, people complain because we have a bottom 5 defense. I would like at least a mediocre defense. When was the last time a team won a SB with a bad defense?

[*rfaulk34*]

(Today, 08:50 AM)Sled21 Wrote: The point remains, this team spent a ton of money to have a powerful offense. That means there isn't a lot of money for a powerful defense. Then, people want to give a huge contract to one player at one position instead of filling needs at multiple positions. 44% of the Bengals total salary cap is going to Burrow, Chase and Higgins. Now the team is supposed to give another 100 million to Hendrickson. Who's going to play all the other positions?

The money that they need to pay Trey Hendrickson is money they already have and CAN pay. They just don't want to. 

The players who are going to play all the other positions are all the guys they drafted the last few years, just for that purpose. 

They decided to pour beaucoup bucks into the offense. That's well and good. They still have money to pay Trey and field a full defense. If you're going to pay the offense that much, you have to crush the draft with defensive players. The problem becomes, those drafted players not developing because they did not draft well (if that is how it plays out).

Philly did the same thing. Pay for a top QB. Pay for 2 WRs. Pay for an elite RB. Yet they smashed the shit out of the draft on the defensive side and won a ring. 

[Bengalbug]

(11 hours ago)rfaulk34 Wrote: The money that they need to pay Trey Hendrickson is money they already have and CAN pay. They just don't want to. 

The players who are going to play all the other positions are all the guys they drafted the last few years, just for that purpose. 

They decided to pour beaucoup bucks into the offense. That's well and good. They still have money to pay Trey and field a full defense. If you're going to pay the offense that much, you have to crush the draft with defensive players. The problem becomes, those drafted players not developing because they did not draft well (if that is how it plays out).

Philly did the same thing. Pay for a top QB. Pay for 2 WRs. Pay for an elite RB. Yet they smashed the shit out of the draft of the defensive side and won a ring. 

2024 Defensive free agents that played a role in the eagles winning a championship:

Primarily a special teams player during his time with the New Orleans Saints, Baun flourished in Vic Fangio’s defense, being selected as a first-team All-Pro while finishing fifth in voting for Defensive Player of the Year. He will return in 2025 after signing a three-year contract in the offseason.

Burks started a pair of games on defense for the Eagles, but more notably finished the 2024 season second on the team in special teams snaps. He will not be back for 2025 after signing with the Cincinnati Bengals in free agency.

CJGJ started sixteen games for Philadelphia, pulling in six interceptions on the way to helping the Eagles win the Super Bowl. Gardner-Johnson was traded to the Houston Texans in the offseason in a deal that brought back Kenyon Green and a fifth-round pick.

DE Bryce Huff
Expectations were high for Huff in 2024, coming off a career year in which he recorded 10.0 sacks. Unfortunately, his on field performance in 2024 fell far short of expectations, but still in his prime at just 27 and is under contract with the Eagles for two more seasons.

CB Avonte Maddox
Initially released by Philadelphia during the 2024 offseason, Maddox re-signed with the team a few weeks later and went on to play in every game while starting three times. He will not be back in 2025, after signing with the Detroit Lions.

[Luvnit2]

Eagles hit on DeJean also, a very good CB. Eagles hitting on rookies and being major contributors from jump. I beleive Eagles also had 2 first round picks in 2024 draft.

[*ochocincos*]

It was confirmed on the ESPN broadcast Monday night by I think Laura Rutledge that Hendrickson told her the holdup is purely on guaranteed $$ at this point.

Question for those who might know, if guarantees are made, can they be structured in a way that they could be all for specific years, or are all guarantees required to be spread across the entirety of the contracted years?

I ask because if the worry by Bengals is does he fall off before his extension would end, could they not guarantee this year and next year to the cap amount and then have the final year(s) have no guarantees rather than the guarantees spread across the remaining years?

[*ochocincos*]

(10 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: Eagles hit on DeJean also, a very good CB. Eagles hitting on rookies and being major contributors from jump. I beleive Eagles also had 2 first round picks in 2024 draft.

This was same situation as Chiefs back when they drafted Karlaftis, McDuffie, Pacheco, and Chenal.

ESPN also on the MNF broadcast mentioned Bengals have 39% of their cap going toward the QB and top two receiving weapons, which is highest in the league.
If you are paying that much for just 3 players, you gotta hit on bargain FAs and draft picks at some point if you wanna get (back) to the Super Bowl.

[Southpaw Frerotte]

(10 hours ago)ochocincos Wrote: This was same situation as Chiefs back when they drafted Karlaftis, McDuffie, Pacheco, and Chenal.

ESPN also on the MNF broadcast mentioned Bengals have 39% of their cap going toward the QB and top two receiving weapons, which is highest in the league.
If you are paying that much for just 3 players, you gotta hit on bargain FAs and draft picks at some point if you wanna get (back) to the Super Bowl.

Ofcourse, it doesn't have to be this way.  The majority of teams would convert salaries to signing bonuses and amortize it over the life of the contract.  But the Bengals refuse to have any dead cap, so they handicap themselves.  

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

(10 hours ago)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Ofcourse, it doesn't have to be this way.  The majority of teams would convert salaries to signing bonuses and amortize it over the life of the contract.  But the Bengals refuse to have any dead cap, so they handicap themselves.  

It is so Mikey can look at the cap space & say he is spending. And, in truth, they have a lot less cash flow than other teams. They have to pay out the SBs. 

[Luvnit2]

(10 hours ago)ochocincos Wrote: It was confirmed on the ESPN broadcast Monday night by I think Laura Rutledge that Hendrickson told her the holdup is purely on guaranteed $$ at this point.

Question for those who might know, if guarantees are made, can they be structured in a way that they could be all for specific years, or are all guarantees required to be spread across the entirety of the contracted years?

I ask because if the worry by Bengals is does he fall off before his extension would end, could they not guarantee this year and next year to the cap amount and then have the final year(s) have no guarantees rather than the guarantees spread across the remaining years?

Guarantees are year specific. So for Trey, I hope they would offer 100% year 1, 100% year 2 and then inventives in year 3 with little to no guarantee. It is my understanding Trey wants year 3 guaranteed or some guarantee and thus the issue. I undrstand they have agreed on the money portion which I would assume is a huge raise.

[Luvnit2]

(10 hours ago)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Ofcourse, it doesn't have to be this way.  The majority of teams would convert salaries to signing bonuses and amortize it over the life of the contract.  But the Bengals refuse to have any dead cap, so they handicap themselves.  

They have another option and could push the signing or any bonus to later years. They could literally give Trey a 15 millio signing bonus for a 2 year extension (under contract for 1 years so + 2 - 3 years) and assign the entire bonus towards year 3.

They are nor forcced to place it equally each year, they could do 5million each year toeards cap, they could do zero towards cap in 2025 and then do 5 million year 2 and 10 million year 3. There are many ways the team can structure a signing or other bonuses. 

But, they would be kicking the can down the road and will impact future years cap space.

[*ochocincos*]

(9 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: They have another option and could push the signing or any bonus to later years. They could literally give Trey a 15 millio signing bonus for a 2 year extension (under contract for 1 years so + 2 - 3 years) and assign the entire bonus towards year 3.

They are nor forcced to place it equally each year, they could do 5million each year toeards cap, they could do zero towards cap in 2025 and then do 5 million year 2 and 10 million year 3. There are many ways the team can structure a signing or other bonuses. 

But, they would be kicking the can down the road and will impact future years cap space.

It's my understanding the Bengals do not like to do this, which is why they do not like to give much guaranteed money.
Instead, they try to say, "Well we usually keep people either through entire contract or with just 1 year left on their contract, so all but the last year is BASICALLY guaranteed....Right??"

[Southpaw Frerotte]

(9 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: They have another option and could push the signing or any bonus to later years. They could literally give Trey a 15 millio signing bonus for a 2 year extension (under contract for 1 years so + 2 - 3 years) and assign the entire bonus towards year 3.

They are nor forcced to place it equally each year, they could do 5million each year toeards cap, they could do zero towards cap in 2025 and then do 5 million year 2 and 10 million year 3. There are many ways the team can structure a signing or other bonuses. 

But, they would be kicking the can down the road and will impact future years cap space.

Yes, the downside of dead cap is you're kicking the can down the road.  My argument against that would be: 
1) The cap consistently increases.  So $XM of dead cap may represent 10% of total cap space in 2025 but will only represent 7% in 2026, 5% of 2027, etc.
2) You have key, elite players in the prime of their careers.  If there's ever a time to "mortgage the future" (and I still don't think that's an appropriate term), the time would be now.
3) Who are the current players that are worthy of an extension beyond Trey?  Or said differently, how else are they going to spend this money?  

I think this all goes back to how Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn and Troy Blackburn (who I think is the real cheap POS in all of this) view a P&L.  I can only imagine the looks on their faces after you explain there are current year expenses being attributed to services provided by players from prior years.  

Browns/Blackburns:  "You're telling me 5% of my current year cap space is being attributed to Antwan Odom?"  He's not even on the team!  Why are we paying him anything if he's not providing me with anything?"  

CFO: "You're correct, sir. Mr. Odom is no longer on the roster.  But just to clarify, we aren't paying Mr. Odom anything this year.  We paid out all of Mr. Odom's contract several years ago.  We're simply amortizing the remaining bonus from Mr. Odom's original contract that we prorated.  This is strictly a non-cash expense in the current year."

Browns/Blackburns:  "But his expense is still hitting our current year's P&L!  If you ever try to screw me again, I'll amortize your ass back to the A/P desk!  Now go fetch me a Spindrift you peasant."  

[THE PISTONS]

(Today, 11:04 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Scouting department could be a part of the problem. However, even if you have a great scouting department, it doesn't matter if their advice falls upon deaf ears and the one making the selections is operating rogue.

Our HC has what 1 win in the 1st 2 weeks of a season in his career.

I think Burrow and Chase are basically what keeps this franchise afloat.

[THE PISTONS]

(10 hours ago)Luvnit2 Wrote: Eagles hit on DeJean also, a very good CB. Eagles hitting on rookies and being major contributors from jump. I beleive Eagles also had 2 first round picks in 2024 draft.

The Eagles arguably have the top offensive line in football. We have a bottom 5 line according to ESPN. (I do think we have fine tackles.)

For us, when is the last time we've had a rookie drafted in the 3rd Round or lower play at a high level Year 1 (that wasn't a punter or kicker).

[THE PISTONS]

(9 hours ago)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: Yes, the downside of dead cap is you're kicking the can down the road.  My argument against that would be: 
1) The cap consistently increases.  So $XM of dead cap may represent 10% of total cap space in 2025 but will only represent 7% in 2026, 5% of 2027, etc.
2) You have key, elite players in the prime of their careers.  If there's ever a time to "mortgage the future" (and I still don't think that's an appropriate term), the time would be now.
3) Who are the current players that are worthy of an extension beyond Trey?  Or said differently, how else are they going to spend this money?  

I think this all goes back to how Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn and Troy Blackburn (who I think is the real cheap POS in all of this) view a P&L.  I can only imagine the looks on their faces after you explain there are current year expenses being attributed to services provided by players from prior years.  

Browns/Blackburns:  "You're telling me 5% of my current year cap space is being attributed to Antwan Odom?"  He's not even on the team!  Why are we paying him anything if he's not providing me with anything?"  

CFO: "You're correct, sir. Mr. Odom is no longer on the roster.  But just to clarify, we aren't paying Mr. Odom anything this year.  We paid out all of Mr. Odom's contract several years ago.  We're simply amortizing the remaining bonus from Mr. Odom's original contract that we prorated.  This is strictly a non-cash expense in the current year."

Browns/Blackburns:  "But his expense is still hitting our current year's P&L!  If you ever try to screw me again, I'll amortize your ass back to the A/P desk!  Now go fetch me a Spindrift you peasant."  

So in theory you're right. Yet, legit every other team that wins pushes things down the road and restructures contracts.

People are always like: Wait until the cap catches up with the Ravens. Yet they draft so well, that it never does.