I'm Getting Strong 2010 Vibes

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 09:25 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: It's come down to waiting for BJ Hill to save us?

Hendrickson will have an impact for sure but they need someone else to emerge from the other 10 positions.

I'd be more cautious in your optimism if I were you.

If you don't believe in BJ Hill, then I suggest you go back and re-watch some film of last year's games. That guy doesn't take downs off, he's full speed every down. When he's in pursuit he looks like he's in fast forward, compared to a younger and supposedly faster guy like Myles Murphy who looks like he's running in quick sand.

[Bengalstripes9]

(Yesterday, 09:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If you don't believe in BJ Hill, then I suggest you go back and re-watch some film of last year's games. That guy doesn't take downs off, he's full speed every down. When he's in pursuit he looks like he's in fast forward, compared to a younger and supposedly faster guy like Myles Murphy who looks like he's running in quick sand.

I don't see him as a player to build the defense around.
He's never really been a great starter.
He's been a great rotational piece but he's getting old.
As soon as we relied on him to start the defense fell apart.

A good defense needs atleast one great starter at every position group.
We have one at DE.
I'd call Hill average to above average--but definitely not great.

[*jason*]

(Yesterday, 02:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I have no 2010 vibes. Burrow makes CP look like an average NFL QB and I loved Chad, but Chase is tons better. Tee is much better than 2020 TO. Brown is best RB we have have had in a long time.

The 2010 team did not have the NFL sack leader (maybe) and a ton of young defensive talent in my humble opinion.

So, nope a healhy JB and Chase and this team can beat anyone, not so with CP. I watched CP totally blow a home game against the Cowboys. CP was never the same after his knee injury, went from great to good NFL QB.

The 2010 team had a rookie Carlos Dunlap, and Geno Atkins... And a secondary which featured Reggie Nelson, Leon Hall, JJ , and Pacman... Oh and a proven NFL DC. The current defense has a long way to go to match that.

[SunsetBengal]

(Yesterday, 09:40 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I don't see him as a player to build the defense around.
He's never really been a great starter.
He's been a great rotational piece but he's getting old.
As soon as we relied on him to start the defense fell apart.

A good defense needs atleast one great starter at every position group.
We have one at DE.
I'd call Hill average to above average--but definitely not great.

He's been a really good starter ever since he's been with the team. Are you dogging him for sack numbers? Check out all of the stats on the other 31 3Ts in the league, along with all of their other stats. BJ Hill measures up just fine, especially for the price range that he commands. If you want a sack artist at 3T? That's going to cost $25M+ (unless you draft one and get the benefit of a rookie contract) 

[Bengalstripes9]

(Yesterday, 09:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: He's been a really good starter ever since he's been with the team. Are you dogging him for sack numbers? Check out all of the stats on the other 31 3Ts in the league, along with all of their other stats. BJ Hill measures up just fine, especially for the price range that he commands. If you want a sack artist at 3T? That's going to cost $25M+ (unless you draft one and get the benefit of a rookie contract) 

If you think he's a great 3T that's cool.

I think he's average to above average.
Our DT play fell off a cliff a couple years ago when he became the starter--but he got injured too.

I get you think the defense will be good this year.
I don't.

We'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm not going to argue with you about it.
I would certainly love to see the defense be average or better.
I'll believe it when I see it.

I like our first round pick and have high expectations for him.
But he's one player and the Bengals need a lot more help than that on D.
I like the second round pick as well.
A lot of these recent draft picks on defense are still very young and a good amount of them have low ceilings.
I'm hoping to see improvement this year and then a good draft next year.
We'll see what happens.

[NUGDUKWE]

(Yesterday, 08:01 PM)Bengalion Wrote: My expectations with the current team are way higher than what I had back in 2010. Geno and Dunlap were rookies then, and nobody really knew how good they’d turn out to be. Our secondary was solid with Leon Hall and Jonathan Joseph. But now, we know what we’re capable of with Burrow, Chase, and Higgins. This team has already made it to two straight conference championships, something Marvin and Palmer never even came close to doing. But if the expectations are higher now, that also means there’s a lot less room for error. If this team doesn’t make the playoffs this season, Zac Taylor shouldn’t be the head coach next year.

I'm certainly not a Taylor apologist and I definitely think Burrow is the far bigger reason this offense works. But if we fail to make the playoffs I think it will come down to OL and or the defense not having enough talent added. Not so sure that should land on Taylor rather than the FO not doing what they could've done.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(Yesterday, 07:26 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: We added 1 above-average receiver. 


In the 2010 NFL season, Terrell Owens[14 games] and Chad Johnson[16 games] (also known as Chad Ochocinco) played together for the Cincinnati Bengals. Johnson had a strong season, recording 67 receptions for 793 yards and 4 touchdowns, according to Wikipedia. Owens, in his first season with the Bengals, caught 72 passes for 983 yards and 9 touchdowns. While Johnson was a consistent presence for the Bengals, Owens led the team in receiving yards and touchdowns, showcasing his continued ability despite being in his late 30s. 

[PCB Bengal Fan]

(Yesterday, 04:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: TY for proving my point, he beat them 3 times and that qualifies as anybody. He also put over 30 points on them in 2024 twice and missed FG's = losses. 

They lost those games because the D could'nt hold a lead.

[Big_Ern]

(Yesterday, 04:53 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: TY for proving my point, he beat them 3 times and that qualifies as anybody. He also put over 30 points on them in 2024 twice and missed FG's = losses. 

And likely would have beat them the game he broke his wrist

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 08:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not sure how the OP got "strong 2010 Vibes" from this team. (yes, I read what he wrote, but I just don't see it) That team coming off of the 2009 season was literally "3 yards and a cloud of dust", as they ran Cedric Benson for all that he was worth, using an extra Tackle as a TE for about half of the plays. The only similarity is paying 2 high profile WRs, one of which was done and just wanted one last paycheck.

Bonus points if anyone actually can recall watching the T-Ocho show. What a stupid circus side act that whole thing was.

Ditto. Carson was not good that year. Lotta picks. He even got boo'd at home against the Bucs when he passed 20k yards passing. 

[WeezyBengal]

(Yesterday, 04:57 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Go look at commanders, eagles, chargers and broncos turnaround from 2023 to 2024.  Actually I’ll do it for you.  

2023:

Commanders 32nd in points, 32nd in yards.
Eagles 30th in points, 26th in yards.
Broncos 27th in points, 29th in yards.
Chargers 24th in points, 28th in yards.

2024:

Commanders 18th and 13th
Eagles 2nd and 1st
Broncos 3rd and 7th
Chargers 1st and 11th

3/4 teams replaced their DC in 2024 and the other in 2023.  You could argue that the eagles, and commanders, brought in help (but they also lost players in the same offseason). The chargers and broncos returned almost the same team.  

The biggest key to a turnaround seems to be coaching/scheme, not necessarily players.

This doesn’t mean Golden will be successful, but he could generate a boost up the rankings.  It’s not inconceivable.

Those teams hit on all of their draft picks. We have not. Is Dax Hill any good? DJ Turner? Murphy? Jenkins? 

Its year 2-4 for those guys and we have no idea.  

[THE PISTONS]

We should have an elite (top 5) Offense and hopefully a defense that marginally improved over last years Defense. If the Defense plays even average, we should be a SB contender.

That said, I don't know how sold I am that the Defense upgraded a lot. But, it was so bad that it almost has to improve by default.

[THE PISTONS]

(6 hours ago)WeezyBengal Wrote: Those teams hit on all of their draft picks. We have not. Is Dax Hill any good? DJ Turner? Murphy? Jenkins? 

Its year 2-4 for those guys and we have no idea.  

Yep. That's the major problem with the franchise. Improve the draft hit rate by just 10% and we're so much better overall.

The Eagles defense was loaded with guys drafted over the last several years that dominate.

Here, we'll rely on Al Golden to work miracles. No pass rush is no pass rush. There's only so much you can do.

[*rfaulk34*]

(Yesterday, 09:25 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: It's come down to waiting for BJ Hill to save us?

Hendrickson will have an impact for sure but they need someone else to emerge from the other 10 positions.

I'd be more cautious in your optimism if I were you.

No. 

It's come down to having the starters available and giving them time to play the scheme for a bit. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(6 hours ago)WeezyBengal Wrote: Those teams hit on all of their draft picks. We have not. Is Dax Hill any good? DJ Turner? Murphy? Jenkins? 

Its year 2-4 for those guys and we have no idea.  

The Commanders also signed Austin Ekeler, Bobby Wagner, and Frankie Luvu (all 2nd team All-Pros in 2024), Dante Fowler Jr and Dorance Armstrong Jr (both better than literally all our DEs other than Hendrickson), Tyler Biadsaz, Nick Allegretti, and Zach Ertz.

They hit on their draft picks AND brought in talent in FA. Almost like the Bengals before they recently decided they don't need to be players in FA anymore because they did it for only like 2 years and it was too successful.

[Bengalbug]

(6 hours ago)WeezyBengal Wrote: Those teams hit on all of their draft picks. We have not. Is Dax Hill any good? DJ Turner? Murphy? Jenkins? 

Its year 2-4 for those guys and we have no idea.  

Almost all of the eagles picks “they hit on”, contributed to one of the leagues worst defenses in 2023. They switch DCs, they improve (dramatically).

You could say the same thing for all of the teams actually. Up until last year, all of the draft picks they “hit on” contributed to a horrible defenses in 2023.

So what is it weezy…? They are bad, or good?

You’re just glossing over the fact that a change in scheme can impact a defense, dramatically. The new DCs got more (a lot) out of the same people that contributed to horrible 2023 defenses.

[Bengalbug]

(6 hours ago)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The Commanders also signed Austin Ekeler, Bobby Wagner, and Frankie Luvu (all 2nd team All-Pros in 2024), Dante Fowler Jr and Dorance Armstrong Jr (both better than literally all our DEs other than Hendrickson), Tyler Biadsaz, Nick Allegretti, and Zach Ertz.

They hit on their draft picks AND brought in talent in FA. Almost like the Bengals before they recently decided they don't need to be players in FA anymore because they did it for only like 2 years and it was too successful.

How about chargers and broncos? Really interested in the talent they brought in before 2024 that contributed to their turnaround.

[Bengalbug]

(6 hours ago)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. That's the major problem with the franchise. Improve the draft hit rate by just 10% and we're so much better overall.

The Eagles defense was loaded with guys drafted over the last several years that dominate.

Here, we'll rely on Al Golden to work miracles. No pass rush is no pass rush. There's only so much you can do.

They dominated in 2023 so much that they were one of the worst defenses in the nfl and rehauled their defensive coaching staff prior to 2024.

[*PhilHos*]

(6 hours ago)rfaulk34 Wrote: No. 

It's come down to having the starters available and giving them time to play the scheme for a bit. 

But if we do that, how are we supposed to *****-and-moan and doom-and-gloom?

[Bengalstripes9]

(6 hours ago)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's come down to having the starters available and giving them time to play the scheme for a bit. 

All I'm saying is I wouldn't have high expectations for this defense this year.
It's going to take some time to develop what we have--and we need more talent on the defense as well.

If I were a betting man I'd bet on them being closer to worst than first on defense this year.
When you factor in other teams having to keep up with our offense--as well as the defense not being very good--it doesn't bode well.

If they surprise us they surprise us. But I wouldn't get your hopes up.