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**BigSeph** · 01-17-2016, 08:41 PM

(01-17-2016, 06:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: "If you just blame everything you can on the other people, he was bad for ONLY a little under half of the game (but 80% of the time the Bengals O had the ball). Plus, if you take away all the bad things he did, he was almost mediocre!"

I was responding specifically to RoyleReda$$'s claim that

Quote:he was terrible for the vast majority of the game.

Now, I don't have to prove that he was otherworldly for more than half the game, or even that he was really good for more than half the game, only "not terrible" for a decent portion of the game in order to prove how stupid Royle's claim was.

For 30-40% of the game, AJM was bad. I wouldn't call it terrible, but if Royle wants to that's fine.

For the other 60-70% of the game (TOP, plays, or actual game minutes) he was not terrible. So Royle is full of crap.

Is there another argument you can barge in on somewhere?

***TheLeonardLeap*** · 01-17-2016, 08:49 PM

(01-17-2016, 08:41 PM)BigSeph Wrote: For 30-40% of the game, AJM was bad. I wouldn't call it terrible, but if Royle wants to that's fine.

The fact your McCarron love is so hard that you have to specifically make a point that his first 11 straight possessions totaled to 13-for-27, 118 yards, 1 INT, 3 Fumbles, isn't terrible (but merely "bad") shows how little you're basing any of your McCarron conversations in reality.

Note that is 11 possessions out of a whopping 14 total. 10 out of 12 if you want to take out the 2nd quarter kneel and the 4th quarter 1 play Hill fumble. Which would be 83.3% of the drives.

That's what, a 45 QB Rating for the first 83.3% of the team's offensive drives? How is that not both terrible, and the vast majority? That checks both boxes.

Emeritus · 01-17-2016, 08:53 PM

(01-10-2016, 01:51 PM)BengalChris Wrote: With Burfict, Jones, Hill and Marvin Lewis getting the spot light from last night's meltdown it's hard to think about anyone else.

However, AJ McCarron, despite some mistakes and fumbles early played a decent second half and moved the ball. He also had some nice pinpoint passes to put us ahead. He didn't panic or fold or chuck it up in desperation. For a guy in his 4th start I think he handled himself pretty well. He's going to be an asset for the Bengals.

Just thought he deserved some credit for what he did right and helping them get into a position to win.

I thought AJ played quite well w/ the poise of a great leader. I don't think you could expect anything else outside of a win from a backup in the NFL. I was at the game and what an unbelievable letdown for the fans ,city and anyone else affiliated w/ Bengal nation. I just wonder what the outcome would have been w/ a healthy Dalton.
Never thought I would say that but he just had a different swagger before his injury.
Oh well maybe in year 26. Go Bengals!

**BigSeph** · 01-17-2016, 10:27 PM

(01-17-2016, 08:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The fact your McCarron love is so hard that you have to specifically make a point that his first 11 straight possessions totaled to 13-for-27, 118 yards, 1 INT, 3 Fumbles, isn't terrible (but merely "bad") shows how little you're basing any of your McCarron conversations in reality.

Note that is 11 possessions out of a whopping 14 total. 10 out of 12 if you want to take out the 2nd quarter kneel and the 4th quarter 1 play Hill fumble. Which would be 83.3% of the drives.

That's what, a 45 QB Rating for the first 83.3% of the team's offensive drives? How is that not both terrible, and the vast majority? That checks both boxes.

You are including drives on which he was not terrible.

Quote:

Cincinnati Bengals at 13:29

1-10-CIN 36(13:29) (Shotgun) 5-A.McCarron pass short right to 18-A.Green to CIN 40 for 4 yards (22-W.Gay).

2-6-CIN 40(12:55) 32-J.Hill left guard to CIN 40 for no gain (50-R.Shazier).

3-6-CIN 40(12:20) (Shotgun) PENALTY on CIN-77-A.Whitworth, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CIN 40 - No Play.

3-11-CIN 35(12:00) (Shotgun) 5-A.McCarron pass short right to 85-T.Eifert to CIN 44 for 9 yards (50-R.Shazier; 95-J.Jones).

4-2-CIN 44(11:17) 10-K.Huber punts 43 yards to PIT 13, Center-46-C.Harris. 84-A.Brown to PIT 19 for 6 yards (47-P.Dawson).

Is this "terrible?" 2-2 for 13 yards and no first down because Whit had a false start?

Quote:

Cincinnati Bengals at 08:14

1-10-CIN 29(8:14) 32-J.Hill right tackle to CIN 28 for -1 yards (55-A.Moats; 92-J.Harrison).

2-11-CIN 28(7:51) 5-A.McCarron pass short left to 82-M.Jones ran ob at CIN 41 for 13 yards.[/url]

1-10-CIN 41(7:18) PENALTY on CIN-77-A.Whitworth, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CIN 41 - No Play.

1-15-CIN 36(6:56) (Shotgun) 5-A.McCarron pass short left to 18-A.Green to CIN 43 for 7 yards (50-R.Shazier). PENALTY on PIT-92-J.Harrison, Defensive Delay of Game, 5 yards, enforced at CIN 36 - No Play.

1-10-CIN 41(6:43) (Shotgun) 5-A.McCarron pass incomplete short left. [Thrown Away]

2-10-CIN 41(6:38) (Shotgun) 5-A.McCarron sacked at CIN 39 for -2 yards (92-J.Harrison).

3-12-CIN 39(5:56) (Shotgun) 5-A.McCarron pass short right to 85-T.Eifert to PIT 45 for 16 yards (22-W.Gay; 91-S.Tuitt).[url=http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2016010901/2015/POST18/steelers@bengals#contentId=0ap3000000620080]

1-10-PIT 45(5:16) (Shotgun) 32-J.Hill right end to PIT 46 for -1 yards (50-R.Shazier).

2-11-PIT 46(4:41) (Shotgun) 5-A.McCarron pass short right to 85-T.Eifert to PIT 38 for 8 yards (41-A.Blake).

3-3-PIT 38(3:58) (Shotgun) 5-A.McCarron pass incomplete short right to 85-T.Eifert (21-R.Golden).

4-3-PIT 38(3:53) 10-K.Huber punts 32 yards to PIT 6, Center-46-C.Harris, downed by CIN-19-B.Tate.

Is this "terrible?" 4-6 for 44 yards, sacked once, but drove the team from the Cincy 29 to the Pitt 38?

You are attempting to include drives and possessions on which he wasn't "terrible" and lump it in with the late 2nd/early 3rd quarters when he was admittedly bad.

You can't say someone was "terrible for the vast majority of the game" when you consider 6-8 for 57 yards as "terrible."

Well you could if you're dumb, I guess.

***bfine32*** · 01-17-2016, 10:32 PM

(01-17-2016, 08:49 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The fact your McCarron love is so hard that you have to specifically make a point that his first 11 straight possessions totaled to 13-for-27, 118 yards, 1 INT, 3 Fumbles, isn't terrible (but merely "bad") shows how little you're basing any of your McCarron conversations in reality.

Note that is 11 possessions out of a whopping 14 total. 10 out of 12 if you want to take out the 2nd quarter kneel and the 4th quarter 1 play Hill fumble. Which would be 83.3% of the drives.

That's what, a 45 QB Rating for the first 83.3% of the team's offensive drives? How is that not both terrible, and the vast majority? That checks both boxes.

...and the fact that you are selecting certain drives in a particular part of the game shows that you are objective.

Truth of the matter is: AJ had us closer to winning a playoff game than any Bengal QB since Boomer Esiason. Folks trying to poke holes in it are showing their true colors.

***TheLeonardLeap*** · 01-17-2016, 10:33 PM

(01-17-2016, 10:27 PM)BigSeph Wrote: You are including drives on which he was not terrible.

Is this "terrible?" 2-2 for 13 yards and no first down because Whit had a false start?

Is this "terrible?" 4-6 for 44 yards, sacked once, but drove the team from the Cincy 29 to the Pitt 38?

You are attempting to include drives and possessions on which he wasn't "terrible" and lump it in with the late 2nd/early 3rd quarters when he was admittedly bad.

You can't say someone was "terrible for the vast majority of the game" when you consider 6-8 for 57 yards as "terrible."

Well you could if you're dumb, I guess.

So your argument is that 2-2, 13 yards (which is only 6.5 YPA, pretty poor) and another drive are the reason why he wasn't terrible?

So rather than 10/12, you're arguing for 8/12.. which last I checked, is still 66.6%, and still quite the majority.

***TheLeonardLeap*** · 01-17-2016, 10:36 PM

(01-17-2016, 10:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and the fact that you are selecting certain drives in a particular part of the game shows that you are objective.

Truth of the matter is: AJ had us closer to winning a playoff game than any Bengal QB since Boomer Esiason. Folks trying to poke holes in it are showing their true colors.

Selecting certain drives? I selected the entirety of the game minus the two final drives. I didn't cherry pick unless you wanted me to count the two drives where he did nothing, neither positive nor negative (one kneel down drive to end the half, one 1 play RB fumble drive).

I selected the first 83.3% of it, I didn't select 2 here, skip 3, select 1 more, skip one, select 2.

Don't make it out to be cherry picking, bfine. He was bad for the whole game overall, and absolutely awful for the vast majority of it overall.

***bfine32*** · 01-17-2016, 10:39 PM

(01-17-2016, 10:36 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Selecting certain drives? I selected the entirety of the game minus the two final drives. I didn't cherry pick unless you wanted me to count the two drives where he did nothing, neither positive nor negative (one kneel down drive to end the half, one 1 play RB fumble drive).

I selected the first 83.3% of it, I didn't select 2 here, skip 3, select 1 more, skip one, select 2.

Don't make it out to be cherry picking, bfine. He was bad for the whole game overall, and absolutely awful for the vast majority of it overall.

K.

***TheLeonardLeap*** · 01-17-2016, 10:47 PM

(01-17-2016, 10:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: K.

Cherry-pick: To select the best or most desireable.

I included the 2-2, 13 and the 3-6, 24 yards in there so it wouldn't be cherry picking, it would be a unbroken streak of offensive series even though they weren't as disastrous as the ones prior or after.

Why would I include the two good drives at the end? We were never discussing those. We were talking about him being terrible for the vast majority of the game, NOT the entire game. Nobody ever accused him of having no good drives. He had two good drives, they were just both at the end and after a ton of awfulness, which is why I displayed an unbroken chain of awfulness that was not cherry picking.

Thanks for really adding a ton of insight and usefulness to this thread though. Sarcasm

***bfine32*** · 01-17-2016, 10:52 PM

(01-17-2016, 10:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Cherry-pick: To select the best or most desireable.

I included the 2-2, 13 and the 3-6, 24 yards in there so it wouldn't be cherry picking, it would be a unbroken streak of offensive series even though they weren't as disastrous as the ones prior or after.

Why would I include the two good drives at the end? We were never discussing those. We were talking about him being terrible for the vast majority of the game, NOT the entire game. Nobody ever accused him of having no good drives. He had two good drives, they were just both at the end and after a ton of awfulness, which is why I displayed an unbroken chain of awfulness that was not cherry picking.

Thanks for really adding a ton of insight and usefulness to this thread though.

No ton of insight. There were a lot of terrible drives in that game on both sides.

Just wondering why folks are trying so hard to paint AJ in a bad light.

Name the last Bengal QB that had us ahead in a playoff game with under 2 minutes to go.

***TheLeonardLeap*** · 01-17-2016, 11:01 PM

(01-17-2016, 10:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: No ton of insight. There were a lot of terrible drives in that game on both sides.

Just wondering why folks are trying so hard to paint AJ in a bad light.

Name the last Bengal QB that had us ahead in a playoff game with under 2 minutes to go.

Name the last Bengals QB to get to go against the 30th ranked pass defense while also having their defense get 3 sacks and 2 turnovers while holding the 4th ranked scoring offense to 18 points despite the Bengals offense turning the ball over 4 times.

It's almost like all situations aren't created equally or something. People are painting McCarron in a non-Crimson Tide light and his performance is what was bad. That messes with people's Alabama chubby, apparently.

**BengalChris** · 01-17-2016, 11:36 PM

(01-17-2016, 11:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Name the last Bengals QB to get to go against the 30th ranked pass defense while also having their defense get 3 sacks and 2 turnovers while holding the 4th ranked scoring offense to 18 points despite the Bengals offense turning the ball over 4 times.

It's almost like all situations aren't created equally or something. People are painting McCarron in a non-Crimson Tide light and his performance is what was bad. That messes with people's Alabama chubby, apparently.

Blah, blah, blah. Kid played with guts and didn't fold in the second half. For a guy with a few games of experience I wasn't expecting much more. Maybe you were looking for the second coming of Joe Montana?

***TheLeonardLeap*** · 01-17-2016, 11:42 PM

(01-17-2016, 11:36 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Blah, blah, blah. Kid played with guts and didn't fold in the second half. For a guy with a few games of experience I wasn't expecting much more. Maybe you were looking for the second coming of Joe Montana?

Fold in the second half would imply he was ever unfolded in the first half.

And sure, with the number of McCarron threads and McCarron fans that flooded the forum, they were talking him up like the next Tom Brady.

**BengalChris** · 01-17-2016, 11:48 PM

(01-17-2016, 11:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Fold in the second half would imply he was ever unfolded in the first half.

And sure, with the number of McCarron threads and McCarron fans that flooded the forum, they were talking him up like the next Tom Brady.

Do you think that Dalton's job is in jeopardy? I don't.

So give the kid some credit. He did some good things. You should acknowledge that and stop treating him like he's a threat to take Dalton's job.

***TheLeonardLeap*** · 01-18-2016, 12:03 AM

(01-17-2016, 11:48 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Do you think that Dalton's job is in jeopardy? I don't.

So give the kid some credit. He did some good things. You should acknowledge that and stop treating him like he's a threat to take Dalton's job.

Not worried about a threat or anything, don't even care about Dalton. He was having a great regular season, but he's been crap in the postseason too. I just don't buy into the need to idolize a kid (or any other QB for that matter) for 56.1% completion, 212 yards, 5.2 YPA, 1 TD/1 INT, 68.3 QB Rating, 5 rushes, 9 yards, 3 Fumbles against the 30th ranked pass defense.

It could be Dalton, it could be Brady. If a QB has those numbers and wastes an amazing effort by the defense in a loss, I will say they sucked regardless of who it is. Even more so when they can only score a TD if they get to start on the opposing team's side of the field.

I mean, did you watch the Denver v Pittsburgh game tonight? It's not like Manning tore it up, he pretty much stunk. 17 INT in 9 starts this year, 39 years old, dead arm. He just didn't stink so bad to lose the game. That's all McCarron had to do. Just stink a little less and the defense and special teams would have more or less won it... and he couldn't manage it. It's not like the Steelers defense is good.

Praising people for that stat line is how you get a franchise into 25 year playoff win drought, and get a franchise fan's not caring about it.

**Shake n Blake** · 01-18-2016, 12:11 AM

(01-17-2016, 10:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Just wondering why folks are trying so hard to paint AJ in a bad light.

Name the last Bengal QB that had us ahead in a playoff game with under 2 minutes to go.

I tend to also wonder why some try so hard to paint AJ's playoff game in a positive light. A game where he wasn't good in any way you can measure QB performance. Statistically he was bad, he looked bad, he led a poor offensive output (2nd lowest output in points and yards ALL SEASON), he turned the ball over more than Dalton did in 2 of his playoff games (even though Dalton is known for turning it over).

Literally the only thing you can use to spin it as a good performance is that he had a lead late in the game. So I'm not surprised you're running with that. The thing is, McCarron wouldn't have had that opportunity without a heroic effort from our defense. With 2 minutes left, they'd only allowed 15 points. In the previous 6 games, here's how many points we'd allowed by the 2 minute mark:

@ Colts: 26 points
vs Chargers: 27 (btw, remember when you used to say that turnovers caused the defensive lapse here? I wonder how our D was able to keep it together last Saturday despite 3 TO's?)
@ Texans: 19
@ Texans: 31
vs Jets: 24
vs Steelers: 31

Had we only allowed 15 points in all of these games, we would've won at least 1 of them. Probably more when you consider the fact that teams with big leads can force the opposing offense to become 1 dimensional. We scored at least 10 points in each of the previous 6 playoff games, but we were getting blown out in all but one (maybe 2) of those games. Had the defense only allowed 15 points, we would've very much been in every one of those games, and I'm sure we could've kicked a couple FG's to get a win in at least a couple.

**BengalChris** · 01-18-2016, 12:18 AM

(01-18-2016, 12:03 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not worried about a threat or anything, don't even care about Dalton. He was having a great regular season, but he's been crap in the postseason too. I just don't buy into the need to idolize a kid (or any other QB for that matter) for 56.1% completion, 212 yards, 5.2 YPA, 1 TD/1 INT, 68.3 QB Rating, 5 rushes, 9 yards, 3 Fumbles against the 30th ranked pass defense.

It could be Dalton, it could be Brady. If a QB has those numbers and wastes an amazing effort by the defense in a loss, I will say they sucked regardless of who it is. Even more so when they can only score a TD if they get to start on the opposing team's side of the field.

I mean, did you watch the Denver v Pittsburgh game tonight? It's not like Manning tore it up, he pretty much stunk. 17 INT in 9 starts this year, 39 years old, dead arm. He just didn't stink so bad to lose the game. That's all McCarron had to do. Just stink a little less and the defense and special teams would have more or less won it... and he couldn't manage it. It's not like the Steelers defense is good.

Praising people for that stat line is how you get a franchise into 25 year playoff win drought, and get a franchise fan's not caring about it.

I don't think anyone is idolizing AJM. At least not that I've seen.

No, I didn't watch the Denver/Squeeler game. Happy that they lost though.

Dalton has never had a good post season game, neither did Palmer or Kitna when they were here. So AJM also doesn't have one and that tells us what? Not much except maybe that Marv is likely to never win one.

***TheLeonardLeap*** · 01-18-2016, 12:29 AM

(01-18-2016, 12:18 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I don't think anyone is idolizing AJM. At least not that I've seen.

No, I didn't watch the Denver/Squeeler game. Happy that they lost though.

Dalton has never had a good post season game, neither did Palmer or Kitna when they were here. So AJM also doesn't have one and that tells us what? Not much except maybe that Marv is likely to never win one.

Yup, and I never praised any of those QBs for their postseason results either. The only excuses I have ever made for Bengals postseason QB results were....

1. '05, they win the SB if Palmer's knee doesn't get assassinated.
2. '14, that team was beat up from the feet up. Never going to win a playoff game with Tate, Hamilton, and Burkhead as your top receiving threats. Not even a Brady/Rogers super hybrid wins with that. Lol

I'm just practicing consistency with my criticism, is all. If a QB does well in the postseason in the future, I will be sure to praise them regardless of who it is.

**Shake n Blake** · 01-18-2016, 12:30 AM

(01-18-2016, 12:18 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I don't think anyone is idolizing AJM. At least not that I've seen.

***TheLeonardLeap*** · 01-18-2016, 12:32 AM

(01-18-2016, 12:30 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Trade-Andy-to-Browns-for-their-2-pick

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Dalton-McCarron-are-in-a-very-awkward-situation?highlight=mccarron

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-This-is-the-moment-when-AJ-McCarron-becomes-a-star?highlight=mccarron

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-AJ-McCarron-POSITIVE-THREAD?highlight=mccarron

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Impressed-with-McCarrons-Deep-Passes?highlight=mccarron

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-What-If-McCarron-wins-the-1st-playoff-game?highlight=mccarron

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-McCarron-will-go-off-Sunday?highlight=mccarron

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-AJ-McCarron-is-Better-than-Andy-Dalton?highlight=mccarron

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-AJ-McCarron-is-a-future-star?highlight=mccarron

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-McCarron-hype-gaining-steam?highlight=mccarron

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