McCarron hype gaining steam

[Stormborn]

(06-29-2015, 03:31 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Leon Hall had the pick 6. 

But yeah, it's a short list. 

All Robert Geathers' fault tbh. 
He's the only Bengal there for all of them. 

Geathers is gone.

Playoff success confirmed.

[Shake n Blake]

(06-29-2015, 03:31 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Leon Hall had the pick 6. 

But yeah, it's a short list. 

All Robert Geathers' fault tbh. 
He's the only Bengal there for all of them. 

Hard to believe he's still only 31 years old. He's an old 31 though.

[CornerBlitz]

Marvin needs to go.

QB needs to be upgraded.

Until those 2 things happen we will continue to bicker and moan about the same ole thing over and over again. Neither are good enough to get us where we want to be which is the superbowl.

Some want to blame the coach more than the QB and vise versa. In all reality it doesn't make a big difference considering they both aren't very good.

Why can't we all at least agree that both the QB and Lewis aren't good enough to get us where we need to be and therefore make a strong push to replace them? Why make excuses for either guy? Do you guys really think Andy Dalton is a superbowl caliber QB? Do you think Marvin Lewis is a superbowl caliber coach?

Hell No.

[Tiger Teeth]

(06-29-2015, 04:48 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Marvin needs to go.

QB needs to be upgraded.

Until those 2 things happen we will continue to bicker and moan about the same ole thing over and over again. Neither are good enough to get us where we want to be which is the superbowl.

Some want to blame the coach more than the QB and vise versa. In all reality it doesn't make a big difference considering they both aren't very good.  

Why can't we all at least agree that both the QB and Lewis aren't good enough to get us where we need to be and therefore make a strong push to replace them? Why make excuses for either guy?  Do you guys really think Andy Dalton is a superbowl caliber QB? Do you think Marvin Lewis is a superbowl caliber coach?

Hell No.

Well there's a fresh perspective on things.

[*Awful Llama*]

(06-29-2015, 05:43 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Well there's a fresh perspective on things.

I understand his frustration, but that made me laugh

[JADefense]

(06-29-2015, 04:48 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Marvin needs to go.

QB needs to be upgraded.

Until those 2 things happen we will continue to bicker and moan about the same ole thing over and over again. Neither are good enough to get us where we want to be which is the superbowl.

Some want to blame the coach more than the QB and vise versa. In all reality it doesn't make a big difference considering they both aren't very good.  

Why can't we all at least agree that both the QB and Lewis aren't good enough to get us where we need to be and therefore make a strong push to replace them? Why make excuses for either guy?  Do you guys really think Andy Dalton is a superbowl caliber QB? Do you think Marvin Lewis is a superbowl caliber coach?

Hell No.

So....... As long as everyone agrees with you things are good?  I feel so enlightened.

[CornerBlitz]

(06-29-2015, 09:01 PM)JADefense Wrote: So....... As long as everyone agrees with you things are good?  I feel so enlightened.

If you think Dalton and Lewis are Super Bowl caliber then I have a bridge to sell you.

Hekk these 2 clowns can't even stay competitive in a playoff game let alone get us to the Super Bowl. You all can deny reality all you want but history tends to repeat itself.

[fredtoast]

(06-29-2015, 10:54 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: If you think Dalton and Lewis are Super Bowl caliber then I have a bridge to sell you.

Hekk these 2 clowns can't even stay competitive in a playoff game let alone get us to the Super Bowl. You all can deny reality all you want but history tends to repeat itself.

Actually, no, history doe not always repeat itself in the NFL.

Going into the '88 season Boomer was 23-23 as a starter with no playoff wins.  Sam Wyche was 29-34 as a head coach with no playoff wins.

Going into the '81 season Ken Anderson had never won a playoff game and had gone 20-32 over the previous 4 seasons.  Forrest Gregg was 24-33 with no playoff wins as a head coach.

[Shake n Blake]

I don't see what's so hard to understand. 99% of players choke under Marvin. Dalton is a player.

It's not an excuse, it's reality. For anyone who thinks I'm biased, check my response in the Russell Wilson thread.

Ultimately, I'd be ok with replacing both QB and HC. All I'm saying is that as long as Marvin Lewis is coaching this team, expect every QB (and the entire team) to choke in the playoffs and prime time. I'd love to replace Dalton with Philip Rivers, Russell Wilson or a top "can't miss" QB prospect. Heck, I even said I'd consider (maybe) an even swap for Kaepernick. So I'm pretty realistic about our QB. I'm also realistic about our HC and how the entire team (QB included) has choked in the bright lights.

There's 12 years of evidence for anyone who has been paying attention. Why does everyone get a pass for choking (thanks to Marv's track record), but somehow people think Dalton is immune to whatever has caused everyone else to choke? Of course, I know that question will be ignored.

[Junglejuice]

(06-29-2015, 03:49 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Geathers is gone.

Playoff success confirmed.

The code is cracked!!!!


CHAMPIONSHIP!

[Junglejuice]

(06-29-2015, 04:48 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Marvin needs to go.

QB needs to be upgraded.

Until those 2 things happen we will continue to bicker and moan about the same ole thing over and over again. Neither are good enough to get us where we want to be which is the superbowl.

Some want to blame the coach more than the QB and vise versa. In all reality it doesn't make a big difference considering they both aren't very good.  

Why can't we all at least agree that both the QB and Lewis aren't good enough to get us where we need to be and therefore make a strong push to replace them? Why make excuses for either guy?  Do you guys really think Andy Dalton is a superbowl caliber QB? Do you think Marvin Lewis is a superbowl caliber coach?

Hell No.

I blame the team.

Because they have been completely horrible as a whole.

There are plenty of worse QBs than Dalton to win a SB.
Honestly.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(06-30-2015, 01:36 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't see what's so hard to understand. 99% of players choke under Marvin. Dalton is a player.

It's not an excuse, it's reality. For anyone who thinks I'm biased, check my response in the Russell Wilson thread.

Ultimately, I'd be ok with replacing both QB and HC. All I'm saying is that as long as Marvin Lewis is coaching this team, expect every QB (and the entire team) to choke in the playoffs and prime time. I'd love to replace Dalton with Philip Rivers, Russell Wilson or a top "can't miss" QB prospect. Heck, I even said I'd consider (maybe) an even swap for Kaepernick. So I'm pretty realistic about our QB. I'm also realistic about our HC and how the entire team (QB included) has choked in the bright lights.

There's 12 years of evidence for anyone who has been paying attention. Why does everyone get a pass for choking (thanks to Marv's track record), but somehow people think Dalton is immune to whatever has caused everyone else to choke? Of course, I know that question will be ignored.

Of course Dalton is immune. Marvin crushes the soul and Mike Brown absorbs it. 
Dalton is a ginger. 
Gingers have no soul.

Therefore Dalton is immune. 

It explains why no one else does anything right or why Gruden would miraculously decide to ignore AJ Green for a half in the playoffs. If he's immune you have to game plan around his lack of soul to crush his hopes. 

[Cinc4ever1]

I wont even bother going through all the replies. I will say Daltons success which is not a lot on his own will reflect on if the coaches make a change. And will McCarron or anyone else be any better...I don't see it.

[CornerBlitz]

(06-30-2015, 12:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually, no, history doe not always repeat itself in the NFL.

Seems like fredtoast is having issues reading. I said history TENDS to repeat itself...not ALWAYS. C'mon attorney at law.

As for the others that want to give Dalton a free pass so be it. Nothing will make up your mind until this coach is detached from this player.  This is a completely unfair approach of judging a player because he has full immunity to criticism due to Marvin being the coach. I guess we cannot evaluate any player on this team because Marvin is the coach. If a QB goes out there and has 0 TD and 5 INT in a playoff game we can't blame him because Marvin is the coach !!!! U all are hilarious.

Why don't you guys answer my question for once. Can Andy Dalton ever be blamed for his atrocious play under Marvin Lewis or no matter what he will always get a free pass i.e. it's Marvins fault not Andy Dalton?

If your answer to this question is that Dalton cannot be blamed because Marvin is the coach then there is no point in even discussing this and from the responses Ive read throughout this thread the Dalton lovers have made that notion clear as day. They cannot blame Dalton because the blame is put 100% squarely on Marvin. The reason why there is no point in arguing is because no matter how many facts, stats, reasoning I bring up you all have already made up your mind in that the QB cannot be blamed under any circumstance as long as Marvin is the coach.

It is an idiotic stance to take if I do say so myself and one that I am really sick of arguing about because there is no way of proving this opinion wrong until Marvin is no longer the coach.
/thread

[PDub80]

I don't get the Andy/Marvin bashing going on in a thread about AJ McCarron and the new gunslinger approach he seems to be bringing. They have nothing to do with AJ.

But, I'll play ball on both topics....

- I was a Marvin Lewis hater from 2006-2012. But with the 2013 & 2014 seasons Marvin Lewis has shown he has become a better coach. MUCH MUCH better. He took way too long and spent a lot of time learning how to be an NFL head coach, but there isn't a reason to bash him moving forward, IMO. He could revert to old Marvin, but I don't see that happening. The 2013 loss to the Chargers I put squarely on the players and the roster was destroyed by kickoff in Indy.

- I find it unreasonable to lay the blame on last year's playoffs on anyone. The fact that they got there with the roster they had and the injuries/rehabs guys were going through was an outstanding achievement and should excite fans that this organization clearly knows how and desires to win - that is a huge positive for the coaching staff

- Andy Dalton was bad in the playoff game against the Chargers in 2013 and he was a loose cannon in the 2014 reg season. The 2014 playoff game I think he gets a pass for. Why? Because even the best chef in the world couldn't make a great dish with bad ingredients.

- The most consistent thing about AD is that he is streaky and inconsistent. I could live with that, but he does not make up for the down moments by coming up with big moments of glory. In time, I think that AJ McCarron can do this should AD continue to falter when it matters most. His mentality, competitiveness, track record, etc. allows/shows he can make a mistake and shrug it off and still take chances to make plays. As of now, AD folds in those bigger moments.

- In AD's favor, Drew Brees did not start to become DREW BREES really until his 5th year playing (6th in the league). I HOPE AD has a Brees like transformation, but I wouldn't predict it nor bet on it.

- I am mostly disappointed in AD's inability to get better when everyone else around him has done so and stepped up. Watching him, he is a similar player in year 4 as he was in year 2. I hope that the playoff performances have not "Klinglered" him mentally. If so, one win and I think he is the type of guy where a light will go on.

- McCarron is an exciting prospect for several reasons and I don't blame anyone for wanting to see more. Even if he has the exact same skill set as AD, his personality and temperament might be more suited to winning. Time will tell.

[*Nately120*]

(06-29-2015, 02:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: All it says it that some fans can't look beyond the QB.

That is their problem.  They need to learn more about football.

Again, Dalton has a 1:8 TD to TO ratio in those games.  He's been bad.  Really bad.  People love to criticize the QB, but it's hard to argue in this case unless someone says Dalton is the only reason we lost all 4 games or something.

[PDub80]

(06-30-2015, 10:17 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Again, Dalton has a 1:8 TD to TO ratio in those games.  He's been bad.  Really bad.  People love to criticize the QB, but it's hard to argue in this case unless someone says Dalton is the only reason we lost all 4 games or something.

No kidding.

Also, why look past the QB? Because fans have chosen to like him? The QB position is the most important on the field and there isn't a close second. If he's bad everything else falls apart. He's been really awful so why look past him? Because it hurts fan's emotions if they support the guy.

[*Nately120*]

(06-30-2015, 10:21 AM)PDub80 Wrote: No kidding.

Also, why look past the QB? Because fans have chosen to like him? The QB position is the most important on the field and there isn't a close second. If he's bad everything else falls apart. He's been really awful so why look past him? Because it hurts fan's emotions if they support the guy.

I've lived around a number of varying fanbases and they all criticize the QB unfairly.  I lived in Chicago and they wanted Caleb Haney or Michael Vick over Cutler, or just didn't like Cutler (despite having possibly only 3 good QBs in their entire 90+ year history and showed no ability to trade, sign, or draft a decent QB in decades).  Some Steeler fans wanted Pig Ben benched for Byron Leftoversandwhich despite the fact that the Steelers were en route to winning a Super Bowl that year (these people don't admit benching Ben would have been a bad idea in hindsight, either), and so on and so forth.

I was paying attention to the Raiders and Cardinals as Palmer was/is the QB and there had been more than 0 people chanting for Pryor/Stanton/Logan Thomas to start.

Basically, every team has people that want the QB benched regardless.  The whole "we know what we have in ______, let's see what ______ can do, why not?!" is a statement uttered by people who don't have NFL-related jobs to lose and probably no one else. Still, Bengals fans are the only ones that I've heard defend a QB with Dalton's statline in the post-season, but the fact that he makes it to the post-season to fail is a bittersweet boon, I guess.

[*PhilHos*]

(06-29-2015, 01:40 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: It's actually 1 TD 7 INTs.

No, actually, it's 1 TD 6 INTs. You have plenty of facts to bash Dalton with; I don't know why you need to lie, it just hurts your already uber-biased opinion.

(06-29-2015, 04:48 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Do you guys really think Andy Dalton is a superbowl caliber QB? Do you think Marvin Lewis is a superbowl caliber coach?

Yes and yes. Obviously, Dalton needs to play better and Lewis needs to coach better (i.e. actually make halftime adjustments in the playoffs), but I think we can win a Super Bowl with them.

(06-30-2015, 03:54 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Can Andy Dalton ever be blamed for his atrocious play under Marvin Lewis or no matter what he will always get a free pass i.e. it's Marvins fault not Andy Dalton?

For someone complaining about someone else's reading issues, you sure do have them of your own. Almost NO ONE is giving Dalton a free pass. 99% of posters on here KNOW that Dalton has sucked/played poorly in the playoffs. But, unfortunately, it seems that a lot less don't understand that it's not only Dalton that has failed in the post season. 

In all honesty, I've NEVER seen anyone claim that it's not Dalton's fault that he played poorly in the post season. I have, however, seen people bring up that other aspects of the team have fared just as poorly and people with reading issues like yours can't seem to understand that these people aren't excusing Dalton, but bringing up other issues that need addressed as well.

I want my team to win a Super Bowl and in order for that to happen, then they need to fix ALL the problems, not just the ones at QB.

[Stormborn]

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