10-year-old rape victim denied abortion in OH

[GMDino]

(07-15-2022, 02:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: ???
First, there is no law preventing women from crossing state lines to seek an abortion?? Not so sure why that's needed.. but after reading it, looks like she's giving anyone that gives an abortion pretty much 100% legal immunity???

So I'd not be for it either.

So unless i'm misreading something, it's just a BS piece created to sensationalize it.

Remember the hubub around here that "Democrats never codified Roe!!!"?

Well this was an attempt to codify a woman's right to go to a state where abortions are legal and not get charged in her home state, as some state are attempting to get laws passed making it illegal to do so.

Republicans are against it.  Not only do they not want someone getting an abortion in their state but they want to make it illegal to go to another state where it IS legal.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-15-2022, 03:01 PM)GMDino Wrote: Remember the hubub around here that "Democrats never codified Roe!!!"?

Well this was an attempt to codify a woman's right to go to a state where abortions are legal and not get charged in her home state, as some state are attempting to get laws passed making it illegal to do so.

Republicans are against it.  Not only do they not want someone getting an abortion in their state but they want to make it illegal to go to another state where it IS legal.

Little late to be trying to "codefie" it now.

Anyways, they can try, but it goes against "The Right to Travel and Privacy Laws", which opens a whole new can of worms if they want to tackle that one.

[Bengalholic]

(07-03-2022, 06:32 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: A 10-year old will die trying to deliver a baby.

I'm no fan of abortion. I think it is ugly and divisive and I think it has sometimes been abused by some women who serially use it in place of other birth control methods. At the same time, I find a law which will not permit this in the cases either rape or medical emergency when the life of the mother is threatened to be archaic and misguided in a civilized society. That is not "tough", that is perverse and sick.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/03/ohio-indiana-abortion-rape-victim?fbclid=IwAR3QP-RF2pf7vuvZ-nu2C1PBTiP33nI7MA7vXbWO7r0tcWEdyXvafTWCXLc

IMO, no one who got pregnant as a result of being raped or a victim of incest should ever be restricted in any way from getting an abortion, but especially a child. What the hell is wrong with people? I don't care what anyone's political, religious or any other belief is...anyone who thinks any rape/incest victim should be forced to have the baby is a just messed up and they probably shouldn't be allowed to reproduce themselves. 

[Lucidus]

Utterly evil.

Ohio lawmakers introduce bill banning abortion at conception unless mother's life at risk
https://eu.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/2022/07/11/ohio-abortion-ban-conception-women-rights-contraception-roe-wade/10033090002/

134th General Assembly
Regular Session H. B. No. 704
2021-2022

Representative Click
Cosponsors: Representatives Gross, Hall, Jordan, Manchester, Powell, Riedel,Stoltzfus

A B I L L

To enact section 9.99 of the Revised Code to enact The Personhood Act to recognize the personhood of an unborn human individual from conception.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF OHIO:

Section 1. That section 9.99 of the Revised Code be enacted to read as follows:

Sec. 9.99. The state of Ohio shall recognize the personhood, and protect the constitutional rights, of all unborn human individuals from the moment of conception. Nothing in this section shall be interpreted in any manner that would endanger the life of a mother.

Section 2. This act shall be known as the The Personhood Act.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-16-2022, 04:45 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Utterly evil.

Ohio lawmakers introduce bill banning abortion at conception unless mother's life at risk
https://eu.dispatch.com/story/news/politics/2022/07/11/ohio-abortion-ban-conception-women-rights-contraception-roe-wade/10033090002/

134th General Assembly
Regular Session H. B. No. 704
2021-2022

Representative Click
Cosponsors: Representatives Gross, Hall, Jordan, Manchester, Powell, Riedel,Stoltzfus

A  B I L L

To enact section 9.99 of the Revised Code to enact The Personhood Act to recognize the personhood of an unborn human individual from conception.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF OHIO:

Section 1. That section 9.99 of the Revised Code be enacted to read as follows:

Sec. 9.99. The state of Ohio shall recognize the personhood, and protect the constitutional rights, of all unborn human individuals from the moment of conception. Nothing in this section shall be interpreted in any manner that would endanger the life of a mother.

Section 2. This act shall be known as the The Personhood Act.

odd...
Would have thought your scientific side would agree.. you know the Cycle of All Human Beings starts with fertilization.. 

[BigPapaKain]

(07-17-2022, 12:47 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: odd...
Would have thought your scientific side would agree.. you know the Cycle of All Human Beings starts with fertilization.. 

Except science doesn't recognize a fertilized egg as a person.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-17-2022, 12:59 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Except science doesn't recognize a fertilized egg as a person.

It does, you don't.

List any scientific chart of a human life cycle. it's included in all of them.

[Lucidus]

(07-17-2022, 12:47 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: odd...
Would have thought your scientific side would agree.. you know the Cycle of All Human Beings starts with fertilization.. 

Considering the context of the proposed bill and what it entails for the victims of sexual crimes, your response is quite disturbing, as your first instinct was not condemnation of the proposed legislation.

Beyond that, the bill is reliant on the notion of personhood at the moment of conception. Do you consider a zygote to be a person?

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-17-2022, 01:45 AM)Lucidus Wrote: Considering the context of the proposed bill and what it entails for the victims of sexual crimes, your response is quite disturbing, as your first instinct was not condemnation of the proposed legislation.

Beyond that, the bill is reliant on the notion of personhood at the moment of conception. Do you consider a zygote to be a person?

Considering your starting statement classified it as evil... well I'm not to fond of that. It's not inherently evil at all, just a different perspective than yours, That is what i have an issue with. Whether i agree with it or not, doesn't matter much. This is the type of bat-shit crazy stuff that happens when the Pendulum swings from one extreme to the other when no one wants to compromise.

Is a Human Being a person?
2 things, never met a human being that wasn't a person nor have i met one that was able to skip the fertilization stage. Have you?

[Lucidus]

(07-17-2022, 01:59 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Considering your starting statement classified it as evil... well I'm not to fond of that. It's not inherently evil at all, just a different perspective than yours, That is what i have an issue with. Whether i agree with it or not, doesn't matter much. This is the type of bat-shit crazy stuff that happens when the Pendulum swings from one extreme to the other when no one wants to compromise.

Is a Human Being a person?
2 things, never met a human being that wasn't a person nor have i met one that was able to skip the fertilization stage. Have you?

Evil is simply that which is profoundly immoral. If you don't consider it profoundly immoral to force a victim of a sexual crime to bear responsibility for the result of that crime, then we most certainly share very different views on morality; notions of right and wrong. 

You keep speaking of compromise when talking about abortion, but I don't know that I've seen you actually offer an ideas of your own. 

Finally, a zygote only contains the potential to become a person. The zygote is by definition human because it has 46 chromosomes, and produces human proteins and enzymes, but also classified as a single-cell organism. Moreover, about half of all zygotes don't survive the first two weeks. If you met a human being, it was obviously a person because it was capable of living outside the womb. How many persons have you met that couldn't survive outside the womb? 

[BigPapaKain]

(07-17-2022, 01:20 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: It does, you don't.

List any scientific chart of a human life cycle. it's included in all of them.

My guy, please do some actual scientific study on the subject. Otherwise I'm gonna have to start talking to you the way pro life people talk and you ain't gonna like it.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-17-2022, 10:57 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: My guy, please do some actual scientific study on the subject. Otherwise I'm gonna have to start talking to you the way pro life people talk and you ain't gonna like it.

Guess you couldn't find anything to dispute the Life Cycle of a Human Being that doesn't include fertilzation/pregnancy as part of the process.

[GMDino]

(07-17-2022, 01:59 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Considering your starting statement classified it as evil... well I'm not to fond of that. It's not inherently evil at all, just a different perspective than yours, That is what i have an issue with. Whether i agree with it or not, doesn't matter much. This is the type of bat-shit crazy stuff that happens when the Pendulum swings from one extreme to the other when no one wants to compromise.

Is a Human Being a person?
2 things, never met a human being that wasn't a person nor have i met one that was able to skip the fertilization stage. Have you?

How many times have you met a fertilized egg?

[GMDino]

Here's the letter saying the 10 year old could NOT have received an abortion in Ohio simply because she was ten and/or raped.

Ohio AG Yost said on Monday that the 10-year-old rape victim who needed an abortion “did not have to leave Ohio to find treatment.”

Not so, says Ohio’s nonpartisan Legislative Service Commission.

Exclusive at @lawdorknews this morning: https://t.co/v1TChR4KX0 pic.twitter.com/UsXmtZwAYH

— Chris “Subscribe to Law Dork!” Geidner (@chrisgeidner) July 14, 2022

 

[*pally*]

Do you know what laws aren't being introduced in the state legislature? Laws to raise the minimum wage to $15.00. Laws mandating paid parental leave. Laws extending affordable housing and childcare. Laws mandating affordable child and maternal healthcare. Laws raising the penalties for rape and incest. Laws that actually protect the woman and her child against abuse. Laws lowering the cost of adoption. Laws protecting anonymous adoption. Laws mandating comprehensive sex education in schools. Laws mandating a complete complement of affordable, accessible birth control.

In other words...not one law that will ease the burdens of forced birth. There is not one law proposed that address the issues that lead to abortion in the first place. The best way to prevent abortion is to prevent unwanted pregnancy in the first place. This, of course, is why it is baffling that so many pro-lifers are against sex education and birth control. If these so-called pro-life folks were truly all about the woman and children then all these issues and more would be fought for by them.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-17-2022, 03:10 AM)Lucidus Wrote: Evil is simply that which is profoundly immoral. If you don't consider it profoundly immoral to force a victim of a sexual crime to bear responsibility for the result of that crime, then we most certainly share very different views on morality; notions of right and wrong. 

You keep speaking of compromise when talking about abortion, but I don't know that I've seen you actually offer an ideas of your own. 

Finally, a zygote only contains the potential to become a person. The zygote is by definition human because it has 46 chromosomes, and produces human proteins and enzymes, but also classified as a single-cell organism. Moreover, about half of all zygotes don't survive the first two weeks. If you met a human being, it was obviously a person because it was capable of living outside the womb. How many persons have you met that couldn't survive outside the womb? 

In the case of rape/incest? yes should be allowed to abort. Report it and let the law arrest the Rapist.
But not every teenage pregnancy a "rape", so how do you handle those, there was nothing 'evil' there?


I've posted multiple times about what I think is a fair compromise and never changed my stance.

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Pro-Choice-People-Babies-Feel-Excruciating-Pain-During-Abortions?pid=653002?highlight=trimester#pid653002

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Question-For-Pro-Choice-People?pid=721580?highlight=trimester#pid721580

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Roe-vs-Wade-vs-SCOTUS-legitimacy?pid=1211435?highlight=trimester#pid1211435


For the last part. That ONE little cell with it's complete genetic makeup, does start to divide and grow. Frozen Fertilized Embryo's, once thawed out, will start right away with dividing and growing whether they are in the womb or not. No scientist will tell you that a cell that a dividing cell is NOT alive.

This means, that blob of cells or whatever descriptive you desire to call it, KNOWS what to do in order to live. 
And now for our favorite word of the month... this makes it an autonomous living being in the early stages of development.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-17-2022, 11:34 AM)GMDino Wrote: How many times have you met a fertilized egg?

We were all a fertilized egg at one point.
Did you find a way to skip that process?

[BigPapaKain]

(07-17-2022, 11:27 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Guess you couldn't find anything to dispute the Life Cycle of a Human Being that doesn't include fertilzation/pregnancy as part of the process.

Marzipan workouts on a garge for concrete music. Box step the I beam to slip yoga. Sky door monkey pot simulation bucket, watch car truck vacuum crate.

But I'm sure you already knew that. 

[GMDino]

(07-17-2022, 12:42 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: We were all a fertilized egg at one point.
Did you find a way to skip that process?

Nope.

But an egg is not a person anymore than an egg is a chicken.

It has the possibility of becoming one but there is a reason it is called a fertilized egg, embryo, fetus, etc...and not person.

If I handed you a fertilize egg would say you had a person in your hand?

[Bengalzona]

(07-17-2022, 11:34 AM)GMDino Wrote: How many times have you met a fertilized egg?

I think I've ate a few over the years.

Chicken eggs, that is.