(11-10-2022, 01:20 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: The one solid thing I have taken away from this election is this, most people are fed up with the election-denying lies. A lot of voters apparently did not forget the shameful behavior of January 6, and it showed in the polls. Frankly, with the high inflation and interest rate hikes, this should have been a Red Wave. Instead, you got a light flow menstrual cycle. And I think it would have been red wave, if it weren't for all of candidates who jumped on the election-denial bandwagon. The good news for the GOP is two-fold: 1) it looks like they will still take the House and the Senate isn't settled issue, and 2) they have a golden opportunity to unburden themselves from the yoke of Trump's hate and lies and head in a more respectable direction.
Rand Paul and Rubio are bad enough as the "normal republicans" and they just got re-elected as senators.
A bunch of senators who spent the 4th of July in Moscow not long after http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/politics/the-intelligence-community-report-on-russian-activities-in-the-2016-election/2153/ John Kennedy, Ron Johnson, John Hoeven, Jerry Moran, and John Thune all just won re-election as well.
It would be hard for me to have less respect for them. So I guess there is nowhere to go but up?
(11-10-2022, 12:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Meh, the voters tried that in 2016 when 3,000,000 more of them voted for craptastic Hillary. Then the voters tried again in 2020 when 7,000,000 more of them voted for craptastic Biden.
The voters have made it clear via their voting that they never wanted Trump to have anything close to this much influence upon our country, yet here we are due to the GOP doing everything in their power to use their political advantages to raise him to demigod standards. The time to jettison him was after the one two punch of losing the 2020 election and the 1/6 stuff, but the GOP instead decided to double-down on him winning the election and the 1/6 incident being overblown or another sign Trump is right and a martyr.
Seems so far like voting and voters have been trying to stop Trump for the past 6 years and something else is keeping him in command. Methinks you'll have to look elsewhere to rid yourself of this guy is all I'm saying. The voters put Trump 10 million votes in the red, so I'm not sure what else they can do.
Desantis is the thing that will move GOP off trump. It shoud be fun to watch the orange virus try and tear the GOP apart after they kick him to curb and go with Ronny boy.
(11-10-2022, 05:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Dubya played up the goofy persona to soften the nepotistic war criminal he really was. Palin and Trump are legitimately media personalities who took a stab at politics and fizzled out relatively quickly.
Comparing Palin and Trump, despite their short-lived political successes, to long-term politicians like Quayle, Biden, and Bush is a bit off. The media ran every president in the television era starting with Nixon's unsuccessful 1960 bid vs JFK through the ringer.
Nixon was ugly
LBJ was ugly and offputtingly imposing
Ford was a dumbass who fell down a lot
Carter was a southern dumbass because he had a southern accent even though he was almost Rhodes scholar
Reagan was a senile and his wife fell down enough that the media loved to speculate that she was "against drugs but clearly a chronic alcoholic"
Clinton was a legit Rhodes scholar but he was a dumbass because he was from Arkansas
Gore was a boring robot and Bush...well, see above
and so on
The media has been out to get politicians since 1960 when everyone on the radio thought Nixon trounced JFK but the TV people said the opposite....damn you television.
You conveniently are leaving out two. One President and one Vice President that have a shield against the Media and Hollywood from attacking.
I also disagree with most of the folks you mentioned. I remember the Carter years as well as Gore and they were not attacked in intensity like the folks I indicated. I can think of one Democrat candidate that was attacked rather unfairly.
(11-10-2022, 05:06 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: How many voters did he have when he came down the escalator?
They had him on tv any time they could get him. Propped him up so Hillary could waltz into the White House, and it backfired. They’ll do it again. Especially seeing how well the democratic candidates did in races against republicans who democrats funded in the primaries this go ‘round.
You are right about that. He was a celebrity beforehand. Not always for good reasons.
E.g. the high profile divorces, the suits and court cases, bankruptcies, the NYT page on the Central Park 5,
Birtherism.
He really had little in the way of a following among Republicans until he said "wall" and insulted other Repubs.
(11-10-2022, 06:06 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: You conveniently are leaving out two. One President and one Vice President that have a shield against the Media and Hollywood from attacking.
Obama and Biden? Have you ever watched Fox News? There are outlets out there to lambast those guys, as there should be.
As for Dukakis, well...yeah who knows how fair that was. The democrats clearly needed to revamp the party after Carter/Mondale/Dukakis and they did so ehh...it was all a big ol' 11th hour move overshadowed by Willie Horton.
(11-10-2022, 06:03 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Desantis is the thing that will move GOP off trump. It shoud be fun to watch the orange virus try and tear the GOP apart after they kick him to curb and go with Ronny boy.
Reasonable republicans will admit Trump has been losing every time since 2016 and consider DeSantis the path to victory. They'll have to be the ones attempting to convince Trump supporters that Trump did not win two landslide elections in a row, and that Trump's huge rallies that he has aren't a guarantee that he's going to win easily in 2024.
Basically, liberals are stepping aside and allowing reasonable republicans to take their turn banging their head against the wall that is MAGA logic.
Will the GOP move on? Maybe...I'm just saying any other time a political party has had to move on from a losing candidate there weren't a bunch of people with signs and flags and hats and t shirts saying that candidate was going to run in the next election. They've got a lot of deprogramming to do in the next 2 years. Go back to Dukakis...imagine if he lost in 1988 and instead of moving on to Clinton and revamping the party democrats insisted he won and immediately printed up DUKAKIS 1992 YOU KNOW HE WON signs.
I will say if Trump is legit finished now these flags and signs and attire will be as amusingly depressing as all those Cincinnati Bengals 2021 Super Bowl Champions shirts that were printed and then shipped off to the 3rd world.
(11-09-2022, 09:39 PM)Dill Wrote: Yeah. The Libertarian will be excluded.
The drama is where those votes will go.
Did people vote lib because they didn't want to vote either Dem or Repub?
So maybe they won't vote in the run off at all? That favors Warnock.
Or are they really Republicans when push comes to shove?
I'm thinking they're not worried about control of the Senate, or they'd
already have voted for Walker.
Ron has this combination of policy wonk and frat guy with a little extra testosterone thrown in. His supporters eat that shit up. He's solid at the art of owning libs, which is big on the far right.
The big question is whether or not he's a stuffed shirt or actually has the testicular fortitude to go toe to toe with Trump in a primary. Trump isn't Charlie Crist or Anthony Fauci. He's a scorched earth heavyweight in the eyes of his base and he has zero concern for past loyalties. There's not a single insult or conspiracy theory that he won't employ and there's not an ounce of dirt he won't dig up and amplify.
The GOP elders likely want Trump to remove himself so badly that it hurts. DeSantis crushed his opponent in a once purple state. He won Dade County, the bluest county in Florida. He has legit viability, maybe even a large advantage over any opponent in a general election.
Unfortunately, he still answers to the Republican base. Trump is still favored by a large margin in polling data among Republicans. Even if he wins, he has to face a MAGA base after a tough battle with their savior. DeSantis is a politician Running a campaign. Trump is the leader of a personality cult. It's tough to change people's minds when their loyalty runs cult-deep.
This could be the ugliest primary in history. If these two maim each other bad enough to take another beating from MrMagoo in 2024, it will be the most deservedly pathetic self-destruction of a political party imaginable.
Dems do a great job of shooting themselves in the foot. It seems that the GOP may have finally caught up.
(11-10-2022, 06:03 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Desantis is the thing that will move GOP off trump. It shoud be fun to watch the orange virus try and tear the GOP apart after they kick him to curb and go with Ronny boy.
I don't think that is going to be fast or easy, though.
DeSantis is the man in Florida, and Repub leaders elsewhere want a more normal-but-still-MAGA candidate.
But it is not all clear to me that he will have the base support outside Florida that Trump does.
I'm not ready to underestimate Trump's power amongst people who still think the NYT is "Fake News."
They'll "know" the globalists are now trying to undermine their movement from within with a MINO.
Going to be interesting to see what happens in the Georgia run off. Will "normal" repubs like Kemp and Rubio stump for
Walker to legitimize him? Or will Trump step in and keep reminding everyone who picked this "quality candidate," maybe
assuring a Warnock win?
GOP leadership has to be pretty mad that Trump spoiled the red wave. Some rank and file are getting it.
Yesterday Laura Ingraham was going on about MAGA candidates who were still reliving 2020 and focused on vengeance
instead of solutions. But she insisted "Trumpism" (populism) was not dead. Former Trump booster Watters was even more adamant.
Lot's of people who have pretended to support Trump to keep their positions see an opening now. But the "Freedom Caucus"
knows their power depends on Trump. What will they do to keep the anger roiling?
(11-10-2022, 06:18 PM)samhain Wrote: Ron has this combination of policy wonk and frat guy with a little extra testosterone thrown in. His supporters eat that shit up. He's solid at the art of owning libs, which is big on the far right.
The big question is whether or not he's a stuffed shirt or actually has the testicular fortitude to go toe to toe with Trump in a primary. Trump isn't Charlie Crist or Anthony Fauci. He's a scorched earth heavyweight in the eyes of his base and he has zero concern for past loyalties. There's not a single insult or conspiracy theory that he won't employ and there's not an ounce of dirt he won't dig up and amplify.
The GOP elders likely want Trump to remove himself so badly that it hurts. DeSantis crushed his opponent in a once purple state. He won Dade County, the bluest county in Florida. He has legit viability, maybe even a large advantage over any opponent in a general election.
Unfortunately, he still answers to the Republican base. Trump is still favored by a large margin in polling data among Republicans. Even if he wins, he has to face a MAGA base after a tough battle with their savior. DeSantis is a politician Running ing a campaign. Trump is the leader of a personality cult. It's tough to change people's minds when their loyalty runs cult-deep.
This could be the ugliest primary in history. If these two maim each other bad enough to take another beating from MrMagoo in 2024, it will be the most deservedly pathetic self-destruction of a political party imaginable.
Dems do a great job of shooting themselves in the foot. It seems that the GOP may have finally caught up.
(11-10-2022, 06:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Obama and Biden? Have you ever watched Fox News? There are outlets out there to lambast those guys, as there should be.
As for Dukakis, well...yeah who knows how fair that was. The democrats clearly needed to revamp the party after Carter/Mondale/Dukakis and they did so ehh...it was all a big ol' 11th hour move overshadowed by Willie Horton.
Reasonable republicans will admit Trump has been losing every time since 2016 and consider DeSantis the path to victory. They'll have to be the ones attempting to convince Trump supporters that Trump did not win two landslide elections in a row, and that Trump's huge rallies that he has aren't a guarantee that he's going to win easily in 2024.
Basically, liberals are stepping aside and allowing reasonable republicans to take their turn banging their head against the wall that is MAGA logic.
Will the GOP move on? Maybe...I'm just saying any other time a political party has had to move on from a losing candidate there weren't a bunch of people with signs and flags and hats and t shirts saying that candidate was going to run in the next election. They've got a lot of deprogramming to do in the next 2 years. Go back to Dukakis...imagine if he lost in 1988 and instead of moving on to Clinton and revamping the party democrats insisted he won and immediately printed up DUKAKIS 1992 YOU KNOW HE WON signs.
I will say if Trump is legit finished now these flags and signs and attire will be as amusingly depressing as all those Cincinnati Bengals 2021 Super Bowl Champions shirts that were printed and then shipped off to the 3rd world.
It seems unthinkable considering he's basically the devil to the left, but I don't put any level of vindictive behavior past Trump. I could actually see him being complimentary to Biden and directly sabotaging the GOP if they remove him. His actual personal politics are pretty non-existent. I think he'd do damn near anything to hurt a figure or party that jilted him. I don't mean support, more like passive comparisons in favor of the president to belittle DeSantis and the party.
If he wanted to be a real dick, he could do exponentially more damage than Perot did to the party in the Clinton/Bush race. An independent Trump running out of spite would all but ensure a loss for Ron D. Is it likely? No. Would it be the most shocking thing? Not to me.
What's interesting about Trump tearing into DeSantis is that liberals are going to watch and enjoy and cheer every over the top insult and attack, whether it has merit or not. They're going to finally have a chance to realize what endeared Trump and his nasty bitchy attitude to so many MAGA nuts they've been looking down upon for years.
He's going to be tacitly fighting for YOU now, liberals...can we avoid falling in love with him?
(11-10-2022, 06:27 PM)samhain Wrote: It seems unthinkable considering he's basically the devil to the left, but I don't put any level of vindictive behavior past Trump. I could actually see him being complimentary to Biden and directly sabotaging the GOP if they remove him. His actual personal politics are pretty non-existent. I think he'd do damn near anything to hurt a figure or party that jilted him. I don't mean support, more like passive comparisons in favor of the president to belittle DeSantis and the party.
If he wanted to be a real dick, he could do exponentially more damage than Perot did to the party in the Clinton/Bush race. An independent Trump running out of spite would all but ensure a loss for Ron D. Is it likely? No. Would it be the most shocking thing? Not to me.
It could go farther than that, if he reveals state/diplomatic secrets out of vengeance.
It's not simply that he is vindictive. He is not mentally stable. I've said that since 2015.
You don't put someone that irresponsible in contact with top secret intel or in the highest
level diplomatic negotiations.
(11-10-2022, 06:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: What's interesting about Trump tearing into DeSantis is that liberals are going to watch and enjoy and cheer every over the top insult and attack, whether it has merit or not. They're going to finally have a chance to realize what endeared Trump and his nasty bitchy attitude to so many MAGA nuts they've been looking down upon for years.
He's going to be tacitly fighting for YOU now, liberals...can we avoid falling in love with him?
Change his mind on abortion, and its Trump/Warren 2024!!
(11-10-2022, 06:32 PM)Dill Wrote: It could go farther than that, if he reveals state/diplomatic secrets out of vengeance.
It's not simply that he is vindictive. He is not mentally stable. I've said that since 2015.
You don't put someone that irresponsible in contact with top secret intel or in the highest
level diplomatic negotiations.
Whether in politics or real life when you ignore red flags and let a narcissist in and THEN you lie and make excuses for him after he clearly is in the wrong and is ruining your life, well...you probably aren't getting out of it easily once you've decided you've had enough.
The 2020 loss and the 1/6 thing was the out, but the GOP doubled down on Trump. It's like the GOP is the battered spouse heading for the door while Trump cracks a beer and leans against the door frame to the kitchen saying "Where do you think YOU'RE going?"
(11-10-2022, 06:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Obama and Biden? Have you ever watched Fox News? There are outlets out there to lambast those guys, as there should be.
Fox News is an outliner in regard to the Media. Other then right-wing online sources they are the only entity that will attack Democrats.
No, I am talking about the CNN's, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, NYT, Wasington Post, etc, when I am talking about the Media.
The Media and Hollywood will not touch Obama AND Kamara otherwise they will be called "racists"
P.S. I voted for Obama with no regrets and I think the worst President was George W. Bush.
(11-10-2022, 06:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He's going to be tacitly fighting for YOU now, liberals...can we avoid falling in love with him?
As a self-described moderate, I consider Trump's long-term relationship with Putin to mutually exclusive and a de facto marriage. Ergo, I will morally have to resist that temptation.
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