A bullying fine?

[Rotobeast]

(05-07-2016, 12:56 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Why can't they just kick them out of school and force the parents to pay for private school?  I don't like  to the ability to fine comes from An interpretation by a teacher who may have clouded feelings.   

It's a nice idea with good intentions.... But good intentions aren't enough to give school employees the ability to take your money based on a hunch or a feeling.  
   

Which is why I suggested that teachers take a class and be certified to do so.

I'd still be ok with expulsion and the private school deal.
However , I'm sure some parents would prefer the fine.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-07-2016, 01:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The person charged would be entitled top a hearing just like with any other charges.  It would take more than just a "hunch" or "feeling" to force these people to pay.

They don't have to hire an attorney?   I realize they don't have to under law but any reasonable person who wants anything to go away hires one.    

I don't like these catch alls where we call everything bullying, rape etc  to cover ourselves and then let the courts sort them out.    

[StLucieBengal]

(05-07-2016, 01:03 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Which is why I suggested that teachers take a class and be certified to do so.

I'd still be ok with expulsion and the private school deal.
However , I'm sure some parents would prefer the fine.

Schools already do 1 and 2.   

If I am teaching would everyone here be ok with me making the call deciding if their kid was bullied or bullying?  Even after they gave me some 2 hour seminar.   

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2016, 01:06 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I don't like these catch alls where we call everything bullying, rape etc  to cover ourselves and then let the courts sort them out.    

I agree, but there is no evidence that this is what is happening in this case.

Rape really happens.  So does bullying.  I don't see any problem with having punishments for improper behavior.

[*bfine32*]

I am all in favor of holding parents responsible for their kid's behavior. I will admit we are traversing a slippery slope with this one. The term bullying would have to be clearly defined.

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2016, 01:10 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If I am teaching would everyone here be ok with me making the call deciding if their kid was bullied or bullying?  Even after they gave me some 2 hour seminar.   

No.  That is why we have courts to decide these things.

[Rotobeast]

(05-07-2016, 01:06 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They don't have to hire an attorney?   I realize they don't have to under law but any reasonable person who wants anything to go away hires one.    

I don't like these catch alls where we call everything bullying, rape etc  to cover ourselves and then let the courts sort them out.    

The thing is that these events are taking place on state and federally funded grounds.
They are responsible for the well being of all the children attending.
I guarantee you that there will be more and more cases brought against school systems, from bullying.
I don't know about you, but I don't want my taxes raised to pay damages for something that could have been prevented.
This is just the direction our litigious society is going.
I don't like it, but I'm more than willing to try the cheaper option.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-07-2016, 01:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I am all in favor of holding parents responsible for their kid's behavior.  I will admit we are traversing a slippery slope with this one. The term bullying would have to be clearly defined.

I always thought holding Them responsible was expelling their kid after repeated attempts to stop the behavior.   

Bullies used to get dealt with by getting punched in the mouth by either the target or someone standing up for the target.   Now it's an auto expeltion.   

[StLucieBengal]

(05-07-2016, 01:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  That is why we have courts to decide these things.

But I would be the one deciding if they get to the courts.   So the school officials decide.   Which brings me back to the previous statement you quoted earlier.   

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2016, 01:15 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Bullies used to get dealt with by getting punched in the mouth by either the target or someone standing up for the target.    

No they didn't.  That is what happened in the movies, but not so much in real life.

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2016, 01:16 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: But I would be the one deciding if they get to the courts.   So the school officials decide.   Which brings me back to the previous statement you quoted earlier.   

Someone has to be responsible for monitoring the behavior at schools.  So the teachers and school officials would be the most qualified to do this.  In fact I think that is a big part of their job.

[Rotobeast]

(05-07-2016, 01:10 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Schools already do 1 and 2.   

If I am teaching would everyone here be ok with me making the call deciding if their kid was bullied or bullying?  Even after they gave me some 2 hour seminar.   

Yes.
However, before processing your report, an investigation would take place , assessing your behavior and ability to make such a call.
I'm sure the teachers union would stop that, but I'm spitballing a perfect world scenario here (in regards as to evaluating the teacher ).

[*bfine32*]

(05-07-2016, 01:15 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I always thought holding Them responsible was expelling their kid after repeated attempts to stop the behavior.   

Bullies used to get dealt with by getting punched in the mouth by either the target or someone standing up for the target.   Now it's an auto expeltion.   

Nope, expelling only punishes the kid. There are too many parents who simply don't care. Fine them or lock their ass up and they will start to care, 

[fredtoast]

(05-07-2016, 01:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, expelling only punishes the kid. There are too many parents who simply don't care. Fine them or lock their ass up and they will start to care, 

I agree with Bfine.  There are already parents who think it is too much trouble to even make their kids go to school.  So they would not mind if the kid was expelled.

[Bengalholic]

(05-07-2016, 01:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, expelling only punishes the kid. There are too many parents who simply don't care. Fine them or lock their ass up and they will start to care, 

I agree with Bfine. Way too many parents out there that simply wouldn't give a shit. Some kids would see getting expelled as a 'badge of honor' and their parents would just laugh it off. There needs to be a way to get their attention and punish them.

Of course, their will also be good parents out there who don't approve of their kids actions and are trying to stop it. I think there needs to be a way to help those, in whatever way, that are honestly making the effort.

This is a complicated issue that doesn't really have a one size fits all solution.

[*Nately120*]

(05-07-2016, 10:40 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You got it all wrong, friend. Stand your ground laws are used to defend bullies who get their asses whooped by those they try to bully. 

Ouch, good point.  

[Nebuchadnezzar]

You must think of the bully as well here.

We all know that most bullies bully because they are bullied at home, mostly by a parent. If a childs parent is fined, that kid my be beaten to death because of it.

There are many parents that don't care out there. Their kids are seen as a burden and if that kid adds one more burden, it may be just enough to push the parent over the edge.

There needs to be something done about bullying, but I don't know if this is the answer.

[Benton]

(05-07-2016, 02:03 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: You must think of the bully as well here.

We all know that most bullies bully because they are bullied at home, mostly by a parent. If a childs parent is fined, that kid my be beaten to death because of it.

There are many parents that don't care out there. Their kids are seen as a burden and if that kid adds one more burden, it may be just enough to push the parent over the edge.

There needs to be something done about bullying, but I don't know if this is the answer.

Sometimes. Sometimes the kid is a bully because of a rough home life. But sometimes the kid is just a ****.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-07-2016, 01:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No they didn't.  That is what happened in the movies, but not so much in real life.

Yeah, riiiight.  That is why when I defended the kid who's locker was next to mine, I later got confronted by the aggressor and a few of his friends, in the restroom, later in the day...

You think that you know and have the answer to everything, but in reality, you don't know shit..

[GMDino]

(05-07-2016, 06:07 PM)Benton Wrote: Sometimes. Sometimes the kid is a bully because of a rough home life. But sometimes the kid is just a ****.

Two bullies I had to put up with in high school:  One had an older brother who was a professional golfer and the other was the son of a lawyer.  Both thought they were better than everyone and both had roid rage issues as it turned out.

Unfortunately they both went on to good careers after school but they also both have had massive legal problem brt\ought on primarily by their still massive egos.

Kind of fun to watch.

Oh, and I didn't have to "punch them in the mouth" to get rid of them.  One I gave the go ahead to "kick my ass" as he had threatened too over and over and he didn't know how to respond and the other I just grew up and realized some people are just assholes and its best to ignore them.