All Things Not Islamaphobia/Terrorism/open borders/Anything French

[GMDino]

(11-24-2015, 08:06 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: That was the issue with Dino wanting to prove the video that Roto shared as false.  

Watch the video and you can see what is considered radical.

Nope.  The issue was he defined it one way... the polls he used used several ways...and then he cherry picked a percentage, applied it to  all Muslim countries and made up a magical number.

[Rotobeast]

(11-24-2015, 08:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote:

[StLucieBengal]

I think it's radical to oppress women in any way.   When you are in the west ... Women are equal in all ways .  Forcing them to not speak, not drive, wear clothing that hides their face.  

That's radical.

I believe the Aussies have a law that woman can not wear the masks.

[GMDino]

(11-25-2015, 02:06 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I think it's radical to oppress women in any way.   When you are in the west ... Women are equal in all ways .  Forcing them to not speak, not drive, wear clothing that hides their face.  

That's radical.

I believe the Aussies have a law that woman can not wear the masks.

Like making sure they are "proper" or making sure they don't play sports with boys?



What about other people who are oppressed in the "West"?  Homosexuals for example?  Clearly they are not as oppressed as in places in the world...but then neither are Christians and they LOVE them some claimed oppression.

How far can oppression go before it starts to bother you?

[BmorePat87]

(11-25-2015, 02:06 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I think it's radical to oppress women in any way.   When you are in the west ... Women are equal in all ways .  Forcing them to not speak, not drive, wear clothing that hides their face.  

That's radical.

I believe the Aussies have a law that woman can not wear the masks.

When my friend's mom was single, she still wore a hijab anytime she was out of the house for cultural reasons. No man forced her to. Is that oppression? 

Are American men who make all of the decisions in their household and have complete financial control "radical Americans"?

What about subservient Asian women? Are their husbands radicals? 

I guess I'm asking: what is oppression? Is it cultural things like women not speaking in certain situations (which isn't unique to Muslims) or wearing certain clothes or is it more restrictive things?

[fredtoast]

(11-25-2015, 02:06 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When you are in the west ... Women are equal in all ways .

Unless they want to play "boy" games.

You have repeatedly commented on your standards of how "proper women" are supposed to behave.  Basically you are saying that they are not equal in all ways because they have to behave the way you want them to.

[GMDino]

(11-25-2015, 12:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: When my friend's mom was single, she still wore a hijab anytime she was out of the house for cultural reasons. No man forced her to. Is that oppression? 

Are American men who make all of the decisions in their household and have complete financial control "radical Americans"?

What about subservient Asian women? Are their husbands radicals? 

I guess I'm asking: what is oppression? Is it cultural things like women not speaking in certain situations (which isn't unique to Muslims) or wearing certain clothes or is it more restrictive things?

Oh geeze!

Growing up Italian I saw my fair share of women in one room to let the "men talk" in the other!  LOL!

That was a couple generations back.  That doesn't fly today...but I know a few couple (my parents age) that the woman still is at the beckon call of her husband.  

In our family my grandmother was the one everyone bowed too and took care of.  But in all of her brother and sister's families the man ruled.  Its funny to look back on.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-25-2015, 12:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: When my friend's mom was single, she still wore a hijab anytime she was out of the house for cultural reasons. No man forced her to. Is that oppression? 

Are American men who make all of the decisions in their household and have complete financial control "radical Americans"?

What about subservient Asian women? Are their husbands radicals? 

I guess I'm asking: what is oppression? Is it cultural things like women not speaking in certain situations (which isn't unique to Muslims) or wearing certain clothes or is it more restrictive things?

Excellent question.  

For example:

My wife and girls wear a scarf when we go to Orthodox Church.  As tradition .  They also take it off once they get to the car .    Now it would be an issue if we forced them to wear a scarf all the time.   Which is technically the deal .  But they have assimilated that tradition into Western culture where forcing women to wear such things is not the standard.    

If a woman wants to wear it.... That's one thing.  But if they wear it out of fear or under the threat of violence .... That's a completely other story.    

I also do not think the burka should ever be worn.    We don't wear masks in the west.   Plus if there is a crime no one can identify their accuser.  

I think it matters when there is a threat of violence if they do not comply.  Which is not permissbale in the west.

[Belsnickel]

(11-25-2015, 12:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: When my friend's mom was single, she still wore a hijab anytime she was out of the house for cultural reasons. No man forced her to. Is that oppression? 

Are American men who make all of the decisions in their household and have complete financial control "radical Americans"?

What about subservient Asian women? Are their husbands radicals? 

I guess I'm asking: what is oppression? Is it cultural things like women not speaking in certain situations (which isn't unique to Muslims) or wearing certain clothes or is it more restrictive things?

The whole situation where we have folks in this country, and other western nations, that try to force people to give up their cultural identities for the sake of assimilation makes me think of the story of Eleazer found in the Books of Maccabees. How under the rule of Antiochus IV, the Greeks tried to force the Israelites to give up their cultural identity to become all one people.

Whether through conquering or through immigration, trying to force people to give up a part of their cultural identity is wrong. Plenty of women in Islam cover themselves by choice as a sign of faith. They do find it empowering to not have men be able to see all of them. Reading these sorts of opinions from Arab feminists has been very interesting. Anyway, those that try to force that assimilation, that shedding of cultural identity, have plenty in common with the biblical villains against the Maccabees. Just an interesting thing to remember coming up on the festival commemorating the end of that oppression.

[fredtoast]

(11-25-2015, 05:14 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The whole situation where we have folks in this country, and other western nations, that try to force people to give up their cultural identities for the sake of assimilation makes me think of the story of Eleazer found in the Books of Maccabees. How under the rule of Antiochus IV, the Greeks tried to force the Israelites to give up their cultural identity to become all one people.

Whether through conquering or through immigration, trying to force people to give up a part of their cultural identity is wrong. Plenty of women in Islam cover themselves by choice as a sign of faith. They do find it empowering to not have men be able to see all of them. Reading these sorts of opinions from Arab feminists has been very interesting. Anyway, those that try to force that assimilation, that shedding of cultural identity, have plenty in common with the biblical villains against the Maccabees. Just an interesting thing to remember coming up on the festival commemorating the end of that oppression.

Rep

People who want to force assimilation are just afraid of anything different.  They are so weak they let fear control them.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-25-2015, 05:14 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The whole situation where we have folks in this country, and other western nations, that try to force people to give up their cultural identities for the sake of assimilation makes me think of the story of Eleazer found in the Books of Maccabees. How under the rule of Antiochus IV, the Greeks tried to force the Israelites to give up their cultural identity to become all one people.

Whether through conquering or through immigration, trying to force people to give up a part of their cultural identity is wrong. Plenty of women in Islam cover themselves by choice as a sign of faith. They do find it empowering to not have men be able to see all of them. Reading these sorts of opinions from Arab feminists has been very interesting. Anyway, those that try to force that assimilation, that shedding of cultural identity, have plenty in common with the biblical villains against the Maccabees. Just an interesting thing to remember coming up on the festival commemorating the end of that oppression.

When people immigrate they are giving up part of their culture for another.    If there is no assimilation then we will slowly become a copy of whichever region we have the most people.   Which is the opposite of what any nation is....  At that point they will cease to be great.    

Immigrants assimilate to be a part of our greatness for the American Dream.   With no assimilation we lose what makes us Americans.   It just promotes factions of whatever country they are from within the United States.

If we immigrated to Saudi Arabia we would assimilate to their barbaric rules .

[Vas Deferens]

(11-25-2015, 05:47 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If we immigrated to Saudi Arabia we would assimilate to their barbaric rules .

[BmorePat87]

(11-25-2015, 04:40 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Excellent question.  

For example:

My wife and girls wear a scarf when we go to Orthodox Church.  As tradition .  They also take it off once they get to the car .    Now it would be an issue if we forced them to wear a scarf all the time.   Which is technically the deal .  But they have assimilated that tradition into Western culture where forcing women to wear such things is not the standard.    

If a woman wants to wear it.... That's one thing.  But if they wear it out of fear or under the threat of violence .... That's a completely other story.    

I also do not think the burka should ever be worn.    We don't wear masks in the west.   Plus if there is a crime no one can identify their accuser.  

I think it matters when there is a threat of violence if they do not comply.  Which is not permissbale in the west.

So you want the government to ban people from wearing certain types of non offensive clothing?

[StLucieBengal]

(11-25-2015, 06:26 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So you want the government to ban people from wearing certain types of non offensive clothing?

Where do you get that I want the gov to ban clothing? I said wearing masks. Western civilization is open face society.

First 2 are ok . Last 2 are not. Not threatening anyones religious freedom. Since there are so many options. Plus they are assimilating to western civilization.

[BmorePat87]

(11-25-2015, 06:38 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Where do you get that I want the gov to ban clothing?    I said wearing masks.   Western civilization is open face society.  

First 2 are ok .  Last 2 are not.   Not threatening anyones religious freedom.  Since there are so many options.   Plus they are assimilating to western civilization.  

So who is enforcing your ban on their culture and religion?

[Belsnickel]

(11-25-2015, 06:51 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So who is enforcing your ban on their culture and religion?

Big government. You know, that thing "conservatives" hate.

[BmorePat87]

(11-25-2015, 06:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Big government. You know, that thing "conservatives" hate.

No, no, no. He said government wouldn't. Maybe we'll have volunteer civilian assimilation squads.

[6andcounting]

(11-25-2015, 06:26 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So you want the government to ban people from wearing certain types of non offensive clothing?

Only if it could be used by a criminal to conceal their identity during a crime.

[Vas Deferens]

(11-25-2015, 08:02 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Only if it could be used by a criminal to conceal their identity during a crime.

I would say a scarf or hoodie can do the same.  What about ski masks in winter?

[6andcounting]

(11-25-2015, 08:04 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I would say a scarf or hoodie can do the same.  What about ski masks in winter?

That's the point. You could literally hold anything in front of your face to conceal your identity. That and banning covering you face with a burka isn't going to stop criminals who want to wear a burka to conceal their identity.

maybe I should of used a