Another Abortion Argument

[Rotobeast]

(05-25-2016, 12:11 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You know, you're right. While we're at it, let's go out and kill all homeless people and felons.  If we're going to kill people in the name of guilt, hardship, convenience or whathave you, might as well make society a better place while we're at it, no? 

That might not be very far off, if the drought in Cali keeps going.
Dwindling resources and all.

[Belsnickel]

(05-25-2016, 12:09 PM)PhilHos Wrote: But it would minimize them. And less abortions is a good thing.

Second Amendment advocates would disagree with your logic.

In all seriousness, though, I get what you're saying. I think the most difficult time I have with anyone advocating making abortion illegal is that is all they advocate for. I would be closer (though not entirely there) to accepting the idea of making "abortions of convenience" illegal if the people advocating to do so were also advocating for better sex education, access to reproductive healthcare (including, but not limited to, contraceptives), increased monetary support for families, and better fiscal support for our foster/adoption services. Without those things making abortion illegal will do nothing but increase the number of "back alley abortions," impoverished families, and put additional burden on an already overwhelmed foster system.

[*PhilHos*]

(05-25-2016, 12:20 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: That might not be very far off, if the drought in Cali keeps going.
Dwindling resources and all.

If it comes to that, I promise you I'll look the other way. 

(05-25-2016, 12:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Second Amendment advocates would disagree with your logic.

In all seriousness, though, I get what you're saying. I think the most difficult time I have with anyone advocating making abortion illegal is that is all they advocate for. I would be closer (though not entirely there) to accepting the idea of making "abortions of convenience" illegal if the people advocating to do so were also advocating for better sex education, access to reproductive healthcare (including, but not limited to, contraceptives), increased monetary support for families, and better fiscal support for our foster/adoption services. Without those things making abortion illegal will do nothing but increase the number of "back alley abortions," impoverished families, and put additional burden on an already overwhelmed foster system.

Actually, it's more like 2nd Amendment opponents would disagree with my logic since they're the ones that think more gun control and less guns will equal less gun deaths. But, anyway ...

I do agree that there is certainly more that can be done in preventing unwanted pregnancies. 

[Belsnickel]

(05-25-2016, 12:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Actually, it's more like 2nd Amendment opponents would disagree with my logic since they're the ones that think more gun control and less guns will equal less gun deaths. But, anyway ...

You said that making abortions illegal would minimize them. 2nd Amendment advocates say that making (certain) guns illegal would not decrease gun violence.

[*bfine32*]

(05-25-2016, 12:01 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You're making the illogical leap that making abortion illegal means no abortions.

Do laws against murder mean no more murders. Of all the silly arguement s we go over and over about abortions the silliest one is "If we outlaw them; folks will break the law."

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(05-25-2016, 01:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do laws against murder mean no more murders. Of all the silly arguement s we go over and over about abortions the silliest one is "If we outlaw them; folks will break the law."

It's not all that silly considering there shouldn't be a law against abortions in the first place. Murder does not equal abortion.  Furthermore I think it's not mine, yours, or the governments job to decide on who gets to terminate a pregnancy. It should be between her and her doctor period.  No one else needs to be involved.

[Belsnickel]

(05-25-2016, 01:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do laws against murder mean no more murders. Of all the silly arguement s we go over and over about abortions the silliest one is "If we outlaw them; folks will break the law."

(05-20-2016, 08:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Lastly, it is a poor excuse for anything, unfortunately it is true. Kind of like gun control as well, criminals will continue to buy illegal/unlicensed firearms, are you willing to say that is a poor excuse for not implementing gun control to limit types of firearms or to license them? You have to get at the root of the problem to implement real change, and making abortion illegal is just a surface solution, kind of like gun control at the consumer level is a surface solution to our firearms related woes in this country.

[*bfine32*]

(05-25-2016, 01:32 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: It's not all that silly considering there shouldn't be a law against abortions in the first place. Murder does not equal abortion.  Furthermore I think it's not mine, yours, or the governments job to decide on who gets to terminate a pregnancy. It should be between her and her doctor period.  No one else needs to be involved.

Once again. I am not talking about the act. I'm talking about the rationale that if we make it illegal we will "force" people to break the law.

I like beer; however, if they make beer illegal tomorrow no one is forcing me to drink and break the law. I'd most likely start looking for employment opportunities elsewhere or move on to my 2nd retirement somewhere else.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(05-25-2016, 01:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Once again. I am not talking about the act. I'm talking about the rationale that if we make it illegal we will "force" people to break the law.

I like beer; however, if they make beer illegal tomorrow no one is forcing me to drink and break the law. I'd most likely start looking for employment opportunities elsewhere or move on to my 2nd retirement somewhere else.

Drinking was once illegal.  It's not now because cooler heads prevailed and realized that just by making something illegal doesn't solve the problem.  The real problem here is comparing/discussing murder/drinking/drugging (not that drinking is criminal activity in and of itself)...and pretty much any other criminal activity with abortion.  Once Again it should be something discussed between the woman and her doctor. period.

[*bfine32*]

(05-25-2016, 01:51 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Drinking was once illegal.  It's not now because cooler heads prevailed and realized that just by making something illegal doesn't solve the problem.  The real problem here is comparing/discussing murder/drinking/drugging (not that drinking is criminal activity in and of itself)...and pretty much any other criminal activity with abortion.  Once Again it should be something discussed between the woman and her doctor. period.

(05-25-2016, 01:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Once again. I am not talking about the act. I'm talking about the rationale that if we make it illegal we will "force" people to break the law.

Over and over again.......

[GMDino]

[GMDino]

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(05-25-2016, 01:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Over and over again.......

I was think the same thing.  Hey at least we agree on something!

[GMDino]

[Harmening]

(05-25-2016, 11:39 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: PM sent. He held back A LOT on his views here. The anti biracial video that uses dogs to explain why whites and blacks shouldn't have kids together should be a clear indicator of his views. 

Mods, not personally attacking, just discussing views, if this isn't allowed please delete. 

I'm with Senator Bulworth on the biracial topic.
Everyone needs to keep f*****g everyone until we're all the same color...

[Au165]

We are forgetting about the other angle to abortions......the abortion addiction!

[Griever]

(05-25-2016, 11:39 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: PM sent. He held back A LOT on his views here. The anti biracial video that uses dogs to explain why whites and blacks shouldn't have kids together should be a clear indicator of his views. 

Mods, not personally attacking, just discussing views, if this isn't allowed please delete. 

yeah that is laughable

wonder what KKK chapter he belongs to

but hey, he enjoys his "non toxic clothing"

[*michaelsean*]

(05-25-2016, 01:51 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Drinking was once illegal.  It's not now because cooler heads prevailed and realized that just by making something illegal doesn't solve the problem.  The real problem here is comparing/discussing murder/drinking/drugging (not that drinking is criminal activity in and of itself)...and pretty much any other criminal activity with abortion.  Once Again it should be something discussed between the woman and her doctor. period.

And the Supreme Court since they decided that abortion by demand goes away the further along the pregnancy goes.  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-25-2016, 12:09 PM)PhilHos Wrote: But it would minimize them. And less abortions is a good thing.

I agree less abortions would be a good thing.  Better yet, the less unwanted pregnancies the better. 

I respect your position, it is (at least some of) the reasoning behind your position which I have trouble accepting because to me it is illogical.  Although I don't mean you personally, it's more of a doctrinal issue and you're not in charge of doctrine.  I have a problem reconciling the belief that abortion is bad because it is killing, yet at the same time killing by U.S. soldiers in Iraq is acceptable because "they" were our enemy even though the reason they were are enemy was a complete fabrication.  I don't get that.  Although not all Christians subscribe to that doctrine.

So because there are about as many different religious beliefs as there are people with religious beliefs, I think the abortion decision is best left to the individual along with their conscience, their religious beliefs, and their family instead of my conscience and beliefs.  I think the Supreme Court's decision with Roe vs. Wade balances the rights of the women vs. the rights of the fetus.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(05-25-2016, 03:21 PM)michaelsean Wrote: And the Supreme Court since they decided that abortion by demand goes away the further along the pregnancy goes.  

Yes I agree that there should be a limit as to how late the procedure could be performed.  However the decision should be made by the woman and her doctor.