Biden overstepped his authority and SC stopped loan forgiveness

[CKwi88]

(06-30-2023, 11:06 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Please educate me, I was in business still in 2020 and 2021.  I never heard of anything getting $150,000 with no documentation. Most people I know hired accountants to provide the information to the government or their payroll company. The paperwork for PPP forgiveness loans was cumbersome and proof of all payroll for the quarter had to be provided upfront to be qualified.

Sure, bolded mine. 

Quote:Literally a 0.58 second google search:

How to apply for PPP loan forgiveness

If your loan was for $150,000 or less
The vast majority of borrowers (around 92%) fall under this category. Those business owners can apply for PPP loan forgiveness one of two ways.

1. Through your lender. Your PPP lender will typically contact you with instructions on how to apply when your covered period ends (eight to 24 weeks after you received your funds). Some will even pre-fill your application with the necessary information, making forgiveness a breeze.
2. Through the SBA. If your PPP lender is one of the more than 1,400 participating in the SBA’s direct forgiveness program you can apply using the SBA’s PPP Direct Forgiveness Portal. (See a list of participating lenders here.)
   

However you apply, you’ll answer the same set of questions as those on those on SBA Form 3508S. You do not need to detail how the funds were spent and, if it's your first PPP loan, you don’t need to submit any receipts, payroll records or additional documentation. For second-draw loans, borrowers need to show the required revenue loss before their loan can be forgiven.

[samhain]

(06-30-2023, 08:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Have you ever looked at how much it costs to keep an inmate incarcerated?  In 2015 it was $26,509 per inmate in Ohio.  Debtor's prisons make little economic sense as the public is still footing the bill, but hey "the jobs" it would create..

http://https://www.vera.org/publications/price-of-prisons-2015-state-spending-trends/price-of-prisons-2015-state-spending-trends/price-of-prisons-2015-state-spending-trends-prison-spending

Free labor is free labor.  Plus the threat of "incarceration" illustrates the reality of student loans: it's the only form of debt that you can not escape via bankruptcy.  You don't pay, you get put in a cage for a decision you made when you were barely an adult.  Give them the chance to volunteer for the cage.  

[*Nately120*]

(06-30-2023, 11:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is scary that you don't understand businesses provide jobs.

I understand this.  I also understand that a lot of businesses close and the people go on and get jobs elsewhere.  Capitalism is bigger than the sum of it's parts and we're all expendable.  Small businesses are going to be a relic of a bygone era the same way the majority of Americans being farmers is.

I had a job once and the place closed down.  I got another job.  


But as I said, life is about coming up with reasons why you deserve a hand and others don't.

[Luvnit2]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ny-democrat-complains-student-debt-scotus-ruling-gets-slammed-million-dollar-home

There are scam artists for anything. This one is a politician living in a 1.3 million home complaining about paying back her student loans from 2012.

"In 2012, I graduated from Fordham Law School with $180,000 is student loan debt," Biaggi wrote in a tweet. "I’ve been paying loans for 11 years. Even paid two of them off completely."

"In 2023, my balance is $206,000," added Biaggi, who represented New York's 34th district during her three-year tenure in the state Senate."

[Luvnit2]

(06-30-2023, 11:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I understand this.  I also understand that a lot of businesses close and the people go on and get jobs elsewhere.  Capitalism is bigger than the sum of it's parts and we're all expendable.  Small businesses are going to be a relic of a bygone era the same way the majority of Americans being farmers is.

I had a job once and the place closed down.  I got another job.  


But as I said, life is about coming up with reasons why you deserve a hand and others don't.

Where does it end? Next, does the government pay off mortgages, cars, Yachts or any contracted debt.

I find the argument 18-26 year olds are not smart enough to understand a loan agreement as scary. The loans are done yearly, so when the are 18 year 1, 19 year 2 more loans and so on all the way through grad school in some cases. So the argument is students getting their masters when they are 22 to 26 have no idea they will have. to pay back the loan???????

[*Nately120*]

(06-30-2023, 11:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Where does it end?

It doesn't end before you get yours, obviously. 

[Luvnit2]

(06-30-2023, 11:20 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Sure, bolded mine. 

I suggest you pull up the form. Look very closely and you will see you have to keep records for 4 years. You also are signing under perjury you meet the requirements for PPP loan forgiveness.

This is where a lot of people were busted for fraud, using fake companies and not meeting the requirements.

So yes, people can lie and get the $150,000, but signing the document, if they commit fraud yes they are paying it back and going to jail.

Pull up the form, it is not some easy form to fill out and why most business owners hired people to fill it out for them.

[Luvnit2]

(06-30-2023, 11:36 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It doesn't end before you get yours, obviously. 

I am very confused. I did not qualify for PPP loan forgiveness so what exactly did I get again?

[*Nately120*]

(06-30-2023, 11:42 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am very confused. I did not qualify for PPP loan forgiveness so what exactly did I get again?

Ah you're right.  Well damn, if you woulda been Tom Brady you would have gotten a bailout to spend on a yacht.

No reason for you and I to fight now that we can both be happy the other guy didn't get a slice of that classy handout pie.  More pie for real people like Tom Brady and Matt Gaetz.  I'd call bygones on this.

[NATI BENGALS]

(06-30-2023, 11:48 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ah you're right.  Well damn, if you woulda been Tom Brady you would have gotten a bailout to spend on a yacht.

No reason for you and I to fight now that we can both be happy the other guy didn't get a slice of that classy handout pie.  More pie for real people like Tom Brady and Matt Gaetz.  I'd call bygones on this.

Super rich athletes getting their debt forgiven really did piss me off. Throw in rich republican law makers at the highest level who also had their debt forgiven.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-republican-critics-student-loan-cancellation-ppp-loan-forgiveness/

And we are lucky these people getting their brains f'd out have some type of college education or they would probably be rioting.

[BengalYankee]

(06-30-2023, 04:12 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Care to expound?

[BengalYankee]

(06-30-2023, 06:16 PM)samhain Wrote: Dude I have a raging hard on seeing these brokies get told they will be broke for the foreseeable future.  If the almighty god wanted them to have money, he'd have materialized and kept them from signing the paperwork.  I'm so sick of acting like the poor and non-rich matter.  Don't even explain it to them.  Neuter/spay these borrowers so they can't continue to live off the teat.  God I'm so glad I have people like them to openly berate and make myself feel better.  

In hope they all commit suicide.

[*pally*]

People like Donald Trump take out loans all the time for business. Then after mismanaging said business into the ground, declare bankruptcy thus screwing all their vendors out of their due. But apparently that’s okay

[treee]

Biden's plan actually also revamped the payback process, which as far as I'm aware is still in effect. Even without the forgiveness, the aforementioned policy alone has made huge inroads with people that have a non negligible amount of student loans. And I assume as far as forgiveness goes that they're not going to stop trying now. It will likely remain as a pretty big part of the democratic platform.

[CJD]

(07-01-2023, 12:54 AM)BengalYankee Wrote:

Got it. 

[Luvnit2]

(07-01-2023, 01:48 AM)pally Wrote: People like Donald Trump take out loans all the time for business.  Then after mismanaging said business into the ground, declare bankruptcy thus screwing all their vendors out of their due.  But apparently that’s okay

Poor comparison. The banks get screwed. The government does not pay the banks or those owed money in a bankruptcy.


Also individuals file for bankruptcy more than businesses, again government does not pay their creditors, they are just screwed.

https://usafacts.org/articles/bankruptcy-in-the-us-how-many-companies-file-for-chapter-7-chapter-11-and-chapter-13/

While high profile bankruptcies such as Bed Bath & Beyond or Toys ‘R’ Us make headlines, business bankruptcies are a small share of overall bankruptcies. In 2022 they were 3.4% of filings, compared to 96.6% filed by non-business entities, including individuals.

[GMDino]

(07-01-2023, 12:34 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Poor comparison. The banks get screwed. The government does not pay the banks or those owed money in a bankruptcy.


Also individuals file for bankruptcy more than businesses, again government does not pay their creditors, they are just screwed.

https://usafacts.org/articles/bankruptcy-in-the-us-how-many-companies-file-for-chapter-7-chapter-11-and-chapter-13/

While high profile bankruptcies such as Bed Bath & Beyond or Toys ‘R’ Us make headlines, business bankruptcies are a small share of overall bankruptcies. In 2022 they were 3.4% of filings, compared to 96.6% filed by non-business entities, including individuals.

The gop changed the bankruptcy laws years ago to make it harder for individuals.

And when a business or a Trump files for bankruptcy it just screws the guys and gals expecting to get paid for their work while the corporation or the Trump keeps going along saying how rich they are.

We, the taxpayers, bail out banks ALL the time for their poor business models.  And the amount of those bailouts probably dwarfs the dollar amount of the individuals even if your percentage were correct.

And when regulations are passed to reign those io the right whines and complains and rolls them back as soon as they can until the next bank failure.

So, please, forgive me if I don't buy into your false equivalency. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-01-2023, 06:13 AM)treee Wrote: Biden's plan actually also revamped the payback process, which as far as I'm aware is still in effect. Even without the forgiveness, the aforementioned policy alone has made huge inroads with people that have a non negligible amount of student loans. And I assume as far as forgiveness goes that they're not going to stop trying now. It will likely remain as a pretty big part of the democratic platform.

Of course it's not going away.  Those votes aren't going to buy themselves.

[Luvnit2]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/justice-roberts-uses-pelosis-words-against-biden-smackdown-student-loan-handout
"As then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi explained: ‘People think that the President of the United States has the power for debt forgiveness. He does not,’" Roberts quoted Pelosi’s July 28, 2021, press conference. "‘He can postpone. He can delay. But he does not have that power. That has to be an act of Congress.’

The post powerful woman in Congress spoke and told the world the POTUS does not have the power for debt forgiveness. Biden also in 2022, said he did not have the power.

Biden scammed and gave hope to students and their parents knowing he had no power on his own to make it happen. He made a campaign promise to buy votes. The question is since he did not get it done, will students and parents buy his pledge a second time or are they upset with Biden.

He has to go through Congress with the approval of the President. Democrats would have to hold the presidency, hold the senate and flip the house. The biggest obstacle would be holding the senate in. my opinion. Manchin has no shot at winning in 2024. Tester also faces a stiff challenge to keep is seat. I have no idea what happens in the Presidential race or Congress.

2024 is a long way off and students have to start paying back their loans very soon. How will they react to a failed attempt by Democrats to forgive their debt? I guess time will tell.

[treee]

(07-01-2023, 12:56 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Of course it's not going away.  Those votes aren't going to buy themselves.

At least it's helping regular people. I'm assuming you're just as concerned with the massive tax cuts for the oligarchs that is the GOPs calling card everytime they hold all 3 branches?